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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 5:30 pm 
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The Pac 12 needs to do a workshop for big 12 commissioner staff, presidents and athletic directors.
Pac 12 could do something special for Texas in sensitivity training and coop decision-making.
All big 12 leaders could use Gestalt group therapy and share feelings.
Arizona business school could work with big 12 on planning, organizing, leading, and contolling including self evaluating.
Get Colorado to do a presentation on the differences between good working reationships and when they left prior bad.


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:34 pm 
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lash wrote:
It is absolutely amazing that you guys turn every conversation and debate on this board into something about the Big 12.

We were having a discussion on the decisions the Big Ten has taken on the playoff situation over years and the Rose Bowl and both yourself and Bashin want to turn this into a Big 12 discussion.

You do realize there are more pressing issue with college sports. The Big 12 and ACC may or may not survive once GOR are up in the next decade.

Let me repeat the next decade. You both do realize that is 10 years before anything can take place. Both of you need to stop worrying about the health of the ACC and Big Ten and hoping the Big 12 collapse and have more current subject matter that may have an interest to others on this aboard.

I just do not get you both obsession with the Big 12 when neither of you are fans of that league.

Can we make a pact to discuss Big 12 issues on the Big 12 thread. Thanks!

I do not care one way or the other if any of the five power leagues survive in the future because everyone of those leagues are greedy and do not care what fans action want or care about.

clap : clap : clap

To everyone that sent me a PM asking why I don't post much anymore, please see the above from lash and compare that to the below from Mesa Lejos. The content and tone of the board has grown stale, and while I am able to quickly scan these threads for comments on a semi-weekly basis, there are only a handful of posters worth readings (like lash). Thank you lash for your contributions, and I hope the posters on here listen to your advice.

Mesa Lejos wrote:
The Pac 12 needs to do a workshop for big 12 commissioner staff, presidents and athletic directors.
Pac 12 could do something special for Texas in sensitivity training and coop decision-making.
All big 12 leaders could use Gestalt group therapy and share feelings.
Arizona business school could work with big 12 on planning, organizing, leading, and contolling including self evaluating.
Get Colorado to do a presentation on the differences between good working reationships and when they left prior bad.

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:32 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I think the Big Ten only took that line after their views were in a minority among the power conferences. Because, up until this system, you had Big Ten folks saying anti-playoff things like only wanting to play themselves, the false concern over student athlete's lives (copying the Ivy League defense), the importance of the Rose Bowl, and then, maybe the concession: their support for the +1 model.

The system we have now, +1-ish and years behind when the call for it really arose...that's the Big and PAC's doings.

I think the Big Ten's CFB utopia would be something unwatchable. It would be a MAC game for the photo-ops, a PAC game, and the rest of the season filled with other Big Ten games, with the best squad getting the trip to Pasadena. Until they can get more of what they want out of the structure (it's not just money), they'll sit on playoff expansion and other matters and lobby for status quo.

What concerns me is that the conference clearly doesn't want a true championship, and can boast some sense of success with the models they've been using. I cringe at OSU's national championship. It was such a pitiful year for the Big Ten overall, but they still enjoy packed mega-stadiums, a respectable media contract, and steer clear of a lot of competition in the non-conference. The system, when it placed Ohio State ahead of both TCU and Baylor, kind of enables the Big Ten to continue making CFB worse for everyone other than themselves.

That's a good post, Bishin Cutter. I do think the B1G has that traditionalist mantra with a protectionist approach while pursing revenue enhancements based on their size, lofty image, and carried influence. Their impressive work has not necessarily been about expansion choices, whereby there were one or two missed opportunities, and a little bit of messiness in the processes. Where the B1G excelled particularly in recent years, were with marketing, programming, and investing, i. e., BTN/auxiliary broadcasting, quality bowl deals in Florida and elsewhere, sponsorship, enhancing value in Olympic-style sports, etc.

All this hullabaloo about deregulation and getting a conference rep into the 4-team playoffs along with the B12's dilemma of operating with only ten members does have consequences regarding the playoff selection process. Now, the discussions have shifted basically to 'which conference will miss having a rep in the playoffs each year'? Bowlsby was pressing for both Baylor and TCU, or at least one of the two, to end up in the playoffs last year if one or two CCG upsets happened or if the selection committee held such games in lower esteem. So, the B12 was fundamentally DEPENDING on CCG upsets, or less meaningful results, in other P5 conferences while not having such a game themselves. Call it an aversion or hypocritical, it's throwing the dice and the B12 came up short on that one.

Remember the build-up last year and beforehand, when so many were claiming that the playoffs would be stacked with SEC teams? I was near alone in saying that will not happen, not because I viewed the SEC lacked high quality, elite fb teams. They have them. But the point was made that the SEC DOES, like others, have to play each other in divisional-focused head-ons'. Lose two of them and a school is basically out of consideration. Ohio State used that to their advantage, sweeping their conference brethren.

With the new emphasis on CCGs', which the B12 rejects, it will hurt conferences in particular years that could have two, or theoretically, even three, polling in the top four. With this current thinking and motivation for strategic inclusiveness, there would be no BCS-style #1 vs #2 Alabama-LSU re-match. That year, it was largely viewed those were the two best.

Therefore, given the recent fuss, it will be extremely difficult for a conference to place two reps in a 4-team playoff. The problem is further compounded that at least one P5 conference is not going to participate. But, the strength of the "only one" assumed criteria for not being left-out, has grown stronger since the CCG has risen in importance. Thus, in retrospect, the B1G has gotten, by default, much of what they wanted in the 'assured conference rep' domain argument. The SEC argument of the 'four best' remains in theory, but not necessarily with practicality, unless it becomes a rare, strange year.

The B12, composed of fine schools, needs to stop playing victim on this, and correct course. That is the conference, by their antics in pressing the issue, only uplifted the CCG importance. The B12's resolution for their predicament is not the job of the playoff committee to fix, or the other P5 conferences to validate through comprehensive deregulation, which is not a fix but an allowance.


Good job dudes!


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:55 pm 
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TKthunder wrote:
lash wrote:
It is absolutely amazing that you guys turn every conversation and debate on this board into something about the Big 12.

We were having a discussion on the decisions the Big Ten has taken on the playoff situation over years and the Rose Bowl and both yourself and Bashin want to turn this into a Big 12 discussion.

You do realize there are more pressing issue with college sports. The Big 12 and ACC may or may not survive once GOR are up in the next decade.

Let me repeat the next decade. You both do realize that is 10 years before anything can take place. Both of you need to stop worrying about the health of the ACC and Big Ten and hoping the Big 12 collapse and have more current subject matter that may have an interest to others on this aboard.

I just do not get you both obsession with the Big 12 when neither of you are fans of that league.

Can we make a pact to discuss Big 12 issues on the Big 12 thread. Thanks!

I do not care one way or the other if any of the five power leagues survive in the future because everyone of those leagues are greedy and do not care what fans action want or care about.

clap : clap : clap

To everyone that sent me a PM asking why I don't post much anymore, please see the above from lash and compare that to the below from Mesa Lejos. The content and tone of the board has grown stale, and while I am able to quickly scan these threads for comments on a semi-weekly basis, there are only a handful of posters worth readings (like lash). Thank you lash for your contributions, and I hope the posters on here listen to your advice.

Mesa Lejos wrote:
The Pac 12 needs to do a workshop for big 12 commissioner staff, presidents and athletic directors.
Pac 12 could do something special for Texas in sensitivity training and coop decision-making.
All big 12 leaders could use Gestalt group therapy and share feelings.
Arizona business school could work with big 12 on planning, organizing, leading, and contolling including self evaluating.
Get Colorado to do a presentation on the differences between good working reationships and when they left prior bad.


But I did learn spelling from the ****less go requiting guy*****
Thank you, guy with the fake Pac 16 logo.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:18 pm 
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I don't know where I steered anything into something Big XII, other than saying that Ohio State's additional victory and the considerations thereafter allowed them to leapfrog two teams who didn't play a thirteenth game. I'm coming from a sense of dread for what happens to college football when conferences like the Big Ten are further validated, given their lack of support for a fair and open pathway for a championship.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:27 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I don't know where I steered anything into something Big XII, other than saying that Ohio State's additional victory and the considerations thereafter allowed them to leapfrog two teams who didn't play a thirteenth game. I'm coming from a sense of dread for what happens to college football when conferences like the Big Ten are further validated, given their lack of support for a fair and open pathway for a championship.

Bishin Cutter, the fact that your on this thread defending yet another Big 12 post really validates are point eh!. Sure your not a politician in real life!

Its OK to defend your conference preference, however, you got to admit having a Wisconsin team just roll over and play dead is a little suspicions in the Big Ten football championship game. What ranked team can't score on a team that is playing its third string quarterback? This is the issue I have with the current college football playoff system that has taken a small baby step to improving the post season with four team playoff.

Why was Wisconsin ranked in the first place that most likely influenced the playoff committee? College football continues to be based on perception and Wisconsin huge embarrassing loss is just more reason to have issues with the only major pro and college sports system that crowns its champion primarily with a selection committee.

The issue I am arguing has nothing to do with a thirteen game or lack of one and has a lot to do with the system that is based a lot on perception.

What happens if the Big Ten is not lucky to have a Wisconsin roll over next year and misses the playoff. What then!

Are you OK with the Big Ten missing out on the playoff because we only have four teams. It is highly possible and would have occurred this year had Michigan State been in the Big Ten championship over a joke team like Wisconsin.


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:33 am 
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The committee got it right. The Big XII ducked didn't do anything during the regular season and had a lousy bowl season with a whopping two wins (4 loss Ole Miss, 6 loss Washington).

The Big Ten defeated: Oregon, Alabama, Baylor, Auburn, North Carolina, Boston College.
The Big Ten had 8 more players drafted to the NFL than the Big XII.... and Michigan and Ohio State had historically weak draft classes. The gap will widen considerably when both don't.
The Big Ten hired Jim Harbaugh who will without any doubt return Michigan to glory.
Penn State is creeping back to life and Maryland and Rutgers are good additions in and of themselves and for recruiting.

The Big XII will likely not even exist in 2026. Baylor (1st place Big XII) lost in Dallas to Michigan State (3rd place Big Ten).
5-loss Arkansas defeated Ole Miss 30-0 (even better than TCU... and won with an ex-Big Ten Coach) along with barely letting Texas cross midfield in a 31-7 win, and also blew out Texas Tech.

The Big Ten not only was a better conference but played a harder regular season and bowl schedule. And they had a more marquee non-conference regular season win (Northwestern winning @Notre Dame vs. TCU beating Minnesota starting a 3rd string QB in Fort Worth).

The Big XII did not do a single thing non-conference aside from beating Minnesota. BYU wiped the floor with Texas. The Big Ten played tougher opponents and if you watched the LSU-Wisconsin game you know that with a healthy Melvin Gordon in the second half, Wisconsin blows out LSU (Wisky up 24-7 at half, Gordon got one carry in the second half as his health was saved for the season since he was dinged up).

TCU is the only thing the Big XII could be proud of in 2014-2015 and they didn't even win the Big XII. Texas seems broken beyond repair. Oklahoma lost 40-14 to Clemson in their bowl game and also seems quite broken.

At least one of the current schools in the Big XII will be a Big Ten school in 2026. The Big Ten is the best academic conference in the FBS and was founded in 1897. The Big XII was a shoutgun marriage in 1994 and has already lost 33% of its original membership. The Big Ten has lost one member (University of Chicago). That school remains an academic member of the Big Ten and did not leave the Big Ten for another conference as several Big XII schools have and will do.

The Big XII is not even worthy of being discussed as a power conference. It does not have the requisite power. Pittsburgh and Air Force turned it down. TCU blowing out defenseless Big XII teams to climb to #3 was laughable. Then the committee did the right thing. Michigan State beat the team that beat TCU. Ohio State ended Southern Football dominance. TCU did nothing of the sort. They had their best season ever and capped it with a win over bruised and battered 4-loss Ole Miss in the Chicken Sandwich Bowl that had about 10% of the TV viewership of Ohio State's post-season games.

The Big XII is small time compared to the Big Ten. Any Big Ten member could join the Big XII if they desired. The Big Ten would turn down the vast majority of Big XII schools. I will hereby refer to the "Big XII" as "formerly the Big XII" since I have not considered them a major conference after they were raided on three different fronts by three other power conferences.

this...

Colorado
Missouri
Nebraska
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
(add West Virginia here if you want)

Texas
Texas A&M
Baylor
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
(add TCU here if you want)

.... is a power conference.

What exists now is a conference that will get the Mortal Kombat fatality treatment in 2025.


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 11:35 am 
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TKthunder wrote:
lash wrote:
It is absolutely amazing that you guys turn every conversation and debate on this board into something about the Big 12.

We were having a discussion on the decisions the Big Ten has taken on the playoff situation over years and the Rose Bowl and both yourself and Bashin want to turn this into a Big 12 discussion.

You do realize there are more pressing issue with college sports. The Big 12 and ACC may or may not survive once GOR are up in the next decade.

Let me repeat the next decade. You both do realize that is 10 years before anything can take place. Both of you need to stop worrying about the health of the ACC and Big Ten and hoping the Big 12 collapse and have more current subject matter that may have an interest to others on this aboard.

I just do not get you both obsession with the Big 12 when neither of you are fans of that league.

Can we make a pact to discuss Big 12 issues on the Big 12 thread. Thanks!

I do not care one way or the other if any of the five power leagues survive in the future because everyone of those leagues are greedy and do not care what fans action want or care about.

clap : clap : clap

To everyone that sent me a PM asking why I don't post much anymore, please see the above from lash and compare that to the below from Mesa Lejos. The content and tone of the board has grown stale, and while I am able to quickly scan these threads for comments on a semi-weekly basis, there are only a handful of posters worth readings (like lash). Thank you lash for your contributions, and I hope the posters on here listen to your advice.

Mesa Lejos wrote:
The Pac 12 needs to do a workshop for big 12 commissioner staff, presidents and athletic directors.
Pac 12 could do something special for Texas in sensitivity training and coop decision-making.
All big 12 leaders could use Gestalt group therapy and share feelings.
Arizona business school could work with big 12 on planning, organizing, leading, and contolling including self evaluating.
Get Colorado to do a presentation on the differences between good working reationships and when they left prior bad.


+1


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:14 am 
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Mercy!

TKThunder vs Mesa Lejos in a Big 12 fix bout. They must be getting old too with nostalgia for the 1970 BRASS KNUCKLES SHOWDOWN in the NWA: Thunderbolt Patterson vs Jose Lothario.

The Big Ten is doing fine. The B12 has some issues. It's currently frequent in the sports media and sports forums..

Now back to Biker's Week in Myrtle Beach ----


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:20 am 
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It's getting a little intense on these forums. I can certainly see both sides but I'm inclined to believe that eventually more schools are going to depart the ACC and Big 12 for more stable and profitable leagues like the SEC, Big Ten, and Pac 12. I also think it's important that we not take jabs when putting forth our thoughts regarding alignment.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:28 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
It's getting a little intense on these forums. I can certainly see both sides but I'm inclined to believe that eventually more schools are going to depart the ACC and Big 12 for more stable and profitable leagues like the SEC, Big Ten, and Pac 12. I also think it's important that we not take jabs when putting forth our thoughts regarding alignment.


Should that happen, then it would mean that it would be only 3 'Power-5' conferences instead of 5 (or 4, which should be suitable), might force both the ACC & the Big XII to eventually implode.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:05 pm 
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Not much is often heard about are the Hoosiers and how expansion has impacted them. Here's a column in SB Nation (Ben Raphel, 6/16/2015) commenting on the subject matter:

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2015/6/16/ ... e-hoosiers


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:18 pm 
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Article from blog conveying a view about B1G expansion and its impact on Ohio State: (Eleven Warriors; Nicholas Jervey; 6/14/2015)

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-stat ... -worse-off


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:39 am 
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The Blue Jay women will follow the men. Johns Hopkins women's lacrosse to join the Big Ten in 2017, choosing independence for the 2016 season.

Neither release (Big Ten or Hopkins) speaks to the CIC thing.

2017 will also be the year Arizona State expects to be fully integrated into a D1 conference for men's ice hockey. I wonder if we'll be seeing more Big Ten affiliate membership news this summer.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:49 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I wonder if we'll be seeing more Big Ten affiliate membership news this summer.


There may be a growing trend with affiliate memberships in the Olympic-type/moderately covered sports. Of course much of this is attributed to conferences not having every member sponsoring the exact same sports in the league. Some of it is tradition and interest, some of it climate variables, some cost-related; but probably Title IX is the most influencing factor.
Conference USA has six of their members that sponsor men's soccer; for women's soccer, the conference goes deeper. In CUSA men's soccer; South Carolina, Kentucky, and New Mexico are affiliate members. One not familiar may think the SEC would sponsor men's soccer, but they don't; but they do have women's soccer. The ACC has both, which certainly provides an edge in soccer recruiting and media promos.

I think the flexibility in having affiliate memberships outside the home conferences due to who sponsors what, serves certain sports well. However, where a school offers of major sport, but does not serve it fully in the host conference, I believe that deserves critical scrutiny. I'm referencing Notre Dame football and the ACC.

The complicated and contentious stuff have historically centered around the basketball-only(+) memberships whereby certain members don't sponsor football and the conference has a major football dimension. We know how the old Big East,whose origin was about bb, diverged and split over this.

Frankly, I am not so keen about P5 elitism, with the revenue, transcending into sports well beyond football. Such efforts shall grow with time, and that it not a good thing. It's already developing deep in basketball and baseball. You know these 'cost of living' athletic stipends may hit the lower profiled sports first, while the focus will be about who can and can't provide such in football.


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