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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:50 pm 
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The NCAA really needed to pick a lane when this whole thing went down. Either let ruling bodies with more resources take a stab at it and let it be, or drop the hammer across all of the athletic programs and never give any hope of easement in the penalties. The way the NCAA acted, they turned this into a matter of NCAA vs. PSU football. Who knew an entire university was really involved? It's just about football!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Penn State may end up being the class of the BIG soon, given the way competition is trending in the conference. Heck, even Maryland and Rutgers could end up taking a lead role with BIG fb.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:51 pm 
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Does anyone actually believe the NCAA is running major college sports? With the recent vote on Autonomy, the NCAA is reporting to the 65 schools and the Power five leagues running major college sports.

While the current Penn State players and coaches had nothing to do with the scandal and rightly should not be penalized for someone else crimes, the NCAA is being told what to do and not the other away around.

It would be a nice thought to believe the NCAA was being noble with this decision on Penn State. Sure! That is why the Big 12 commissioner during the Big 12 forum in NYC last month stated if you want to cheat, now is the time to do it.

University of Miami off the hook. No problem!

University of North Carolina off the hook. No problem!

The NCAA is just taking orders from the autonomy group.

We will have to wait until this group votes on future agenda items to really understand what constitutes a violation in major college sports in the future. The NCAA will just follow it marching orders to what those decisions impact or more importantly do not impact the revenue streams driving major college sports.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:32 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
That rationale could apply to a host of schools in other conferences. I spent two years in Mississippi in the 80s' and know the schools well, even directly. Actually, MSU is the larger school, though modestly, and within the state, carries a plurality of fans. But, indeed Ole Miss has the brand name and the more lofty history: Archie Manning, Eli, Coach Johnny Vaught, etc. State is a charter conference member, and certainly current marketing and telecasting were not envisioned then. I remember when MSU had a 35,000 seat stadium, and a year they were doing very well, there was a decision to televise a game with visiting FSU. The concern then was not about the team, but the smaller stadium for TV. Nowadays, a network will show games at places with masses of empty seats---just use camera work to de-emphasize this. MSU is now at near 62,000, and just spent a ton of money on impressive upgrades to the nation's second oldest on-campus stadium. Georgia Tech has the oldest, but not the level of modernization recently done at MSU. MSU is not that far from Memphis either (and comparatively closer to Jackson, Meridian, and Gulfport), and used to play Tennessee frequently in the Liberty Bowl (regular season). At one time, the Commercial-Appeal had a pro-MSU sports writer that gave them some good press.
It is a tight neighborhood for MSU, particularly with Alabama next door. Southern Miss made a lot of strides and they have the advantage of the growing gulf region.
If you follow SEC coverage, MSU is probably the least mentioned school/team of all the SEC schools, even when they are doing very well in a sport. And how many times do writers, announcers, printers, etc., get their name confused with Ole Miss and Southern Miss? Constantly. By contrast that is not common among Michigan, Michigan State, and the directional Michigans. When MSU made the final four in bb years back, it was almost like they were not even there by network and national press coverage. Where you are does matter. And certainly MSU has not a good, well-extended, 'run' in fb in recent decades to force attention, unlike what schools such as VPI and Boise have done. They'll have two or three fine seasons out of a decade, but not much beyond that. They have won the SEC-west division before, and Ole Miss has not. MSU's lone SEC fb championship was in the late 40s'. And even perennially fb struggling Kentucky, has a bb dynasty to showcase. While their recent recruiting has improved, and well ranked for early 2015, they have traditional relied on picked-over instate recruits and few others from neighboring states not offered by 'Bama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, etc. So I would not label MSU a bloodsucker or deliberately making lazy efforts, it's working with comparatively less resources.
I really think they need to change their mascot to another canine though, Georgia has essentially the monopoly on the bulldog designation when heard.

Yes it applies to many schools, I gave you at least 6 more examples (Purdue, WF, ISU, KSU, BU, TCU) but you could apply it to a few more but IMO these are the 7 worst (and notice how 4 are in the Big 12 which also a reason I don't think UT/OU hang around after 2025).

MSU is unfortunate for all the reasons we both said. Rebranding would help...mascot/nickname, colors/uniforms, some more traditions (I know it's corny to just add traditions but all anyone really knows about MSU is the cowbell), they just NEED something to distinguish themselves. Winning would work but like you said, even a final four didn't help their brand much.

But to put this topic to bed, MSU/WF are probably the easiest to pick on of those 7 (all the rest have either been recently successful KSU/TCU/BU, or are AAU, Purdue/ISU) and MSU is the more obvious target as it's in the SEC and has no risk of not being included in the current system while Wake Forest could get still get cut out if the ACC gets raided by the SEC/B1G/B12 (but that highly unlikely). MSU is one of those schools that simply lucked out being in a power conference while others like ISU/KSU will likely be left out even though they are just as qualified. And that's why I "pick" on them occasionally.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:27 am 
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I said at the time, the NCAA WAY over-stepped it's bounds on the Penn State thing.
Emmert has wound up neutered and embarrassed.
Now you are seeing Goodell wiht egg on his face over the Ray Rice incident.

Here is the problem....

The USA has a criminal justice system for handling off-the-field misbehavior.
Yeah, when athletes get in trouble, there is the potential for colleges / fans on the police dept. to try to help the team by sweeping the incident under the rug.
Not sure what you do about that.

But the NCAA President and NFL Commissioner should not be running a redundant courts system.
The are becoming increasingiy over-loaded with cases, and amke a lot of mis-steps when their redundant couurt system doesn't provide any sort of due process for the accused.

Instead, I propose they restrict themselves to what they were originally charged with doing:
1) Regulating play on the field (rules, officiating)
2) Protecting the integrity of the game (punishing cheating, testing/punishment for use of P.E.D.'s)
3) In the case of the NCAA, setting down rules for eligibility among participants.
Yeah, you need an investigative unit to keep an eye on member institutions.

But level prosecution of criminal activity to local law enforcement.

In the case of PSU, Sandusky finally got what he deserved (unless you wnat the death penalty, which I wouldn't disagree with).
He will die in prison.
The people around Sandusky should be thoroughly investigated by PA State Police Detectives, and prosecuted IF warranted.
I maintain Jerry's wife had to suspect....
The others - Paterno, Curley, Schwartz, Spanier should have been similarly investigated.
But the problem wiht the NCAA meting out justice is that they lack DUE PROCESS.
Before he died, there was a knee-jerk move afoot to disgrace Paterno without giving him an opportunity to defend himself.
I read the Freeh report, and it seemed to jump to conclusions.
Freeh did a good job of unearthing some relevant info on e-mails, etc. that made it clear the discussions about Sandusky were going on,
but it wasn't so clear that the otehr guys were actually actively supressing investigation or withholding information from law enforcement.
PSU was a mess, and maybe the problem was that loacl law enforcement (Campus police) shoudl have been an independent entity,
removed from university influence.

Missouri is currently dredging up the mishandling of a female swimmer's suicide after campus police or the athletic department
ignored her complaint of rape by a football player around 2011 (if I have my facts straight).

Think about the Jameis Winston incident (the rape accusation, not the crab leg incdent).

This kind of stuff can potentially happen in most college towns. The campus police should NOT be influenced by the university administration / athletic department.
But should the NCAA try to over-reach beyond their charter and use this nebulous "Loss of institutional control" to impose thier own awkward justice ?
How did Mark Emmert decide that PSU needed to spend $60 MILLION tax-payer dollars to appease the NCAA ?
He shoved that down the throat of the interim PSU president, back when emotionalism and knee-herk justice was rampant.
Now that things have calmed down, most level-headed folks realize that was not within the NCAA's power to that.
And so quietly (with lawsuits hanging in the balance), the NCAA realizes their system of justice has over-stepped and quietly has reversed itself.

PSU was forced to "vacate" year's worth of Paterno victories. This was sort of at the suggestion of the Robinson clan at Grambling.
And Emmert thought the time was right for "piling on", without giving Paterno any opportunity to defend himself.
Both Bobby Bowden and Paterno were seemingly in a race to win the career victories title, and the NCAA vacated wins for both.
Bowden was forced into retirement to make way for Jimbo, this let Paterno surge ahead and pass Robinson's D-IAA record as well.
Interstingly now that the NCAA is reeling, Bowden is speaking out about reinstating both his AND Paterno's victories.
Although they appeared to be rivals, Paterno and Bowden were good friends dating back to Bobby's days at WVU,
and Bowden was not one to "pile on" Paterno when the Sandusky story came to light.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:51 pm 
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I've felt from the beginning that if the NCAA felt it had a say in this, it was fully on them to define what, where, and why they felt this. They said they were, but put nothing behind why they felt that way, other than just "we can." Believe me, PSU got off easy once the NCAA said they had a say in this and only went after football. This touched the AD and president...that whole athletic department should have been shut down. Instead, the NCAA chose PSU football to punish, and even in doing that, managed to work with the same aimlessness as they did in deciding whether they had jurisdiction in the matter. They punished the Paterno years: stripped wins, disgracing Paterno and the players on those teams. Then, however, they went after the innocent student athletes with bowl bans, scholarship reductions, and only partial coverage of the punishment with a mere two year window for free transfer. The Big Ten added to it: no revenue distribution even after the bowl ban lifting.

To say the whole structure is rotten is stating the obvious. I have to wonder these days if Emmert and his cronies are intentionally muffing every kick so that these big schools can break away like they want to and try to extort more money and control over this nonsense.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:25 pm 
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With its current 1-9 record against the P5, I am starting to think that lack of football prowess could force Big Ten expansion before 2025.

The Big Ten is not going to get a team into the 4 Team Playoff this year. Nebraska is only a couple plays better than FCS' McNeese State and Penn State needed 5 INT to beat Rutgers while only managing to score 13 points in that contest. Those are the Big Ten's only hopes. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

This year, the Big 12 seems capable of sending Oklahoma or Baylor (perhaps TCU?). This year, the ACC will send Florida State with ease as the ACC is only slightly better than the Big Ten outside of Florida State. The Pac-12 is fairly strong and will send one team be it UCLA, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona State or USC. And the big bad SEC will send one of its many good candidates or maybe even more than that. Should the Pac-12 or Big 12 rack up too many losses, the SEC would obviously send an extra team above anything the Big Ten could offer. Of note, Notre Dame could also crack the Top 4 above the Big Ten Champ if things were close.

But okay, just one year right? Not exactly. The Big Ten hasn't won a big non-conference game in almost a decade. I had to go back to 2007 (OSU won @ Texas) to find a non-Notre Dame nationally important win during the regular season. Bowls? Eh. They don't hold a lot of weight for me aside from the BCS/New Year's Sponsored ones. The Big Ten either seems to win 1/4 of those within 7 points or less or lose 3/4 of them by over 14 points. That isn't good enough no matter how you cut it. The solution?

Missouri, because it would make the SEC look bad when they scramble for a replacement. On their own though, Missouri would win the Big Ten West at their current clip (their same clip as their last 10 years). Notre Dame still wouldn't join since Missouri doesn't get their attention, so you probably have to add Connecticut to reach 16 (AAC would add BYU, UMass or Army). Whatever you obviously won't get in football from UConn (to be fair, Huskies are better than a few Big Ten football teams) you do noticeably get in basketball from Day One.

What is the big bad SEC to do? Probably Rice or sit at 13 until 2025 for Big 12 replacements or 2027 for ACC replacements. While their football prowess wouldn't miss a beat, the uneven number of schools in their conference would make them look a little foolish as would adding any of their options to replace Missouri. I say if you can't be the king, step on the king's foot when you get the chance.

West : Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Minnesota
East : Indiana, Connecticut, Rutgers, Penn State, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland

Football Titles in BCS Era : 1
Basketball Titles in BCS Era : 6

Also, the SEC West is much stronger than the SEC East due to recruiting hotbeds. Moving Auburn over to the SEC East and replacing them with a much easier (yet great recruiting ground) in Rice would go a long way towards making the SEC Title Game competitive again.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:56 pm 
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While I do believe the Big Ten got it wrong with Missouri but think Missouri's leadership would go to the Big Ten if that conference did some of the wooing for a change, operationally, I don't know why Missouri would ever switch conferences. With proximity to Chicago and the midwest schools while sharing a conference with schools running along the gulf, I don't know if I could think of a program that has more pipelines open across the country. Maybe Notre Dame, but they claim they need independence and two CA opponents to get their work done.

The Big 8, while it didn't have much of a footprint, did have a pipeline that put them into reach of a lot of recruiting territories. It's one of those risks I've wondered about with the Big Ten possibly absorbing their members. Nebraska used to enjoy the reaches of Texas and the left coast because of Oklahoma and Colorado. They don't have that anymore. Colorado pretty much shares with the rest of the PAC now, as they have no inroads to the east anymore. Only Missouri seemed to thrive...but if they chose to join the Big Ten, what would happen to them? It's the same question I ask of Kansas' candidacy, and I wouldn't mind seeing them in the group.

Schools like Oklahoma, Colorado, and Missouri...these were how a lot of these schools used to be able to build these behemoth programs, even if those weren't always relevant in the scene (as Missouri once was and Colorado eventually became). I don't have a good feeling about the conference's desire of piecemeal'ing what they've been doing. While they collect eyes with some pretty big schools, they swing and miss by a mile some of the finer details that made such programs worthwhile. And I do mean Penn State in that group, because if the Big Ten had allowed PSU to keep PSU-Pitt on the calendar where it belonged, who knows if the Big Ten needed to go further east of PA for attention? It's like thinking UMD will be this pipeline into the south...the same south it screwed when it left without an explanation?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:46 pm 
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Is that Mizzou's leadership (Pres.) who happens to be the former Texas A&M President who went out on the line to get A&M into the SEC?

Auburn will not move to the SEC-east. That's been brought up multiple times since the SEC divisions were created. That was refused again when Mizzou was added. Mizzou, apparently, is comfortable with the SEC-east; actually overall better institutional matchup beyond the factor of geography.

While Rice is a very respected academic private school in a dense demographic area, it is short on fans and athletic investments to fit with the SEC. Also, the SEC would want them to be at least reasonably competitive in major sports beyond baseball. Rice simply struggles too often and for too long, and doesn't show anything that would satisfy SEC-level competition.

I believe the SEC is set for a long time. There's no Oklahoma, Texas, UNC, NCSU, UVA, or VPI knocking on the SEC door saying "we are ready, let me/us in". The GoR timelines just have to get near expiring, and even then, such could be renewed and still no major movement.

Last night I saw a sportscast fretting about the B1G not having highly ranked teams so far this season in fb, and concerns expressed about the playoffs. They acknowledged that the SEC was the strongest in fb, having 5 SEC-west teams in the top ten alone. Then, the cast, including Glen Mason, speculated about the PAC12 being the second strongest. Then they also talked about the strength of the B12, including Oklahoma and Baylor; and then the ACC, particularly with FSU. Where did I see this? The Big Ten Network (BTN).

As with the SEC, I don't think the B1G needs to be focused on expanding right now. Heck for fb, the B1G was more dominant when they had fewer members. It may not be about size. Schools such as Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, NW, etc. need to step up. Michigan getting pounded by Notre Dame had nothing to do with the thought the B1G may need more members.

Agree with earlier comments from The Bishin Cutter, enhancing prior, existing, and new rivalry games would help. Penn State--Nebraska was a good thing. Had Pitt been brought in, Pitt-Penn State would get strong attention. Maybe some better coaches are needed at some B1G schools, or simply there are several just going along for the ride. However, because the B1G is not showing fb dominance this season, it is not any reason to panic. The B1G is already loaded with premier schools with a long history of fb prominence.

Also, again, dump this crap with Notre Dame. The B1G allowed ND to out-flank them in being the perceptual kingpin of the geographic Midwest. You scheduled them, don't fall and roll over when playing them. And Virginia Tech beats Ohio State and then East Carolina, who lost to South Carolina the week before, beats Virginia Tech? That's simply a question of an individual school getting the job done, not the composition of the conference. Nebraska lucky to beat McNeese State?

It's true the south has the region with the greater number of higher star fb players. Still, the B1G is where they are and who they are. It is not like they don't have good access to athletic talent. They need to work on fundamentals and improve the internal stuff that matters, not worry about early season comparisons elsewhere.

As to the SEC, they will be knocking each other down in brutal conference play. That will show in polls too.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm 
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For anything major to happen in the college conference landscape right now its going to require breaking a GoR or bypassing a GoR by two conferences conspiring to strip a conference of enough members to break it. (i.e. SEC and Big 10 taking a total of 10 ACC schools or the Big 10 and Pac 12 taking 8 of 10 Big 12 schools) These scenarios aren't very likely but at least the ACC one deserves some thought.

Other than that, things are going to stand still.


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