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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:47 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
So yeasterday, Wisconsin's head coach resigned to take the same position at Oregon State.

Seems like at best a "lateral" move. Not many would say that Oregon State (little brothers to the Phil Knight / Nike-sponsored juggernaut) is higher-profile than Wisconsin.

Possibly the Wisconsin coach was about to be fired (after the embarrassing 59-0 drubbing).
Or the cupboard was about to go bare, with Melvin going to the NFL in the upcoming draft....

Theories ?


Alverez.
Plus a better, quality of play, conference


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:15 pm 
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mplsbison wrote:
Dennis wrote:
Well, you're right, it's a subjective term, but the facts say that OSU led 31 - 14 in the 4th quarter before Minnesota scored a meaningless 10 points. Gophers were never in a position to win that game, which I consider a pretty good definition of a decisive victory. I'll stand by my earlier statement.


I suppose all points scored are meaningless if they don't result in a victory.

Maybe you didn't watch the whole game, but the fact of the matter was that Minnesota was in it until the end.


On the other hand, they were never in it when they played TCU. And so I think your point in even bringing up Minnesota was to compare Ohio St. to TCU, which is not a very good argument via Minnesota, as I've described.

The fact of the matter was that with 1:19 left in the game Minnesota kicked a field goal to pull within 31-24. They never regained possession of the ball, and therefore were never in a position to win the game.

I believe I addressed your problem earlier when I posted:
Quote:
I think many people missed the signs because they wanted OSU to lose and the B1G to get knocked out of the playoff. Sometimes if you look hard enough, you see just what you want to see.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:39 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
So yeasterday, Wisconsin's head coach resigned to take the same position at Oregon State.

Seems like at best a "lateral" move. Not many would say that Oregon State (little brothers to the Phil Knight / Nike-sponsored juggernaut) is higher-profile than Wisconsin.

Possibly the Wisconsin coach was about to be fired (after the embarrassing 59-0 drubbing).
Or the cupboard was about to go bare, with Melvin going to the NFL in the upcoming draft....

Theories ?

Almost certainly was not about to be fired.

One reason appears to be that Anderson still has a lot of family out west, and this puts him closer.

I suspect it had something to do with recruiting/admissions. Like Northwestern, Stanford, and some other top schools, Wisconsin has higher admission requirements than NCAA minimums. Last year at least 3 of Anderson's commitments were unable to meet Wisconsin's admission standards, and had to de-commit. I believe 2 of these ended up enrolling at other B1G schools and 1 at a MAC school. I also think 1 of these was a juco transfer, which generally are not the type of recruits Wisconsin pursues; however Anderson himself was once a juco transfer and he strongly believes in this path. Realistically, it will always be a struggle to get juco transfers past Wisconsin's admissions office, so he may have just wanted to avoid that struggle.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:23 am 
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Dennis wrote:
The fact of the matter was that with 1:19 left in the game Minnesota kicked a field goal to pull within 31-24. They never regained possession of the ball, and therefore were never in a position to win the game.

I believe I addressed your problem earlier when I posted:
Quote:
I think many people missed the signs because they wanted OSU to lose and the B1G to get knocked out of the playoff. Sometimes if you look hard enough, you see just what you want to see.


So in other words, you're confirming that I was correct when I said that they were in it until the end. I guess kicking onside down seven points with 1:19 left in the game doesn't qualify as "the end", in your book. It does in mine.

More facts of the matter: i) Ohio St was making it look ugly early in the first half, up 14-0 -- then Minnesota forced turn overs and tied it 14-14 right before the end of the first half (Ohio St did kick a field goal to make it 17-14 at the half, ii) Ohio St was making it look ugly again early in the second half, up 31-14 -- then Minnesota forced turn overs and brought it to 24-31, kicking onside to get the ball back with about a minute left.

That's staying in it until the end. That's not a "decisive" win.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:32 am 
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Dennis wrote:
Almost certainly was not about to be fired.

One reason appears to be that Anderson still has a lot of family out west, and this puts him closer.

I suspect it had something to do with recruiting/admissions. Like Northwestern, Stanford, and some other top schools, Wisconsin has higher admission requirements than NCAA minimums. Last year at least 3 of Anderson's commitments were unable to meet Wisconsin's admission standards, and had to de-commit. I believe 2 of these ended up enrolling at other B1G schools and 1 at a MAC school. I also think 1 of these was a juco transfer, which generally are not the type of recruits Wisconsin pursues; however Anderson himself was once a juco transfer and he strongly believes in this path. Realistically, it will always be a struggle to get juco transfers past Wisconsin's admissions office, so he may have just wanted to avoid that struggle.


I will admit if I'm shown to be wrong, but I have my doubts that admissions at the U of Wisc are any significant barrier. No more than Michigan, Minnesota or Penn State (the top four ranking research universities in the B1G, along with Wisconsin).

My hunch is that Anderson's family is simply having a hard time coping with being in this part of the country and want to go back home, so he took an opportunity that popped up to do that. If you're not from the upper midwest, it's a harsh place to make feel like home (particularly in the winter).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:52 am 
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SBD article with comments from Big Ten Commish regarding various topics at http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail ... elany.aspx


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:18 pm 
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mplsbison wrote:
Dennis wrote:
The fact of the matter was that with 1:19 left in the game Minnesota kicked a field goal to pull within 31-24. They never regained possession of the ball, and therefore were never in a position to win the game.

I believe I addressed your problem earlier when I posted:
Quote:
I think many people missed the signs because they wanted OSU to lose and the B1G to get knocked out of the playoff. Sometimes if you look hard enough, you see just what you want to see.


So in other words, you're confirming that I was correct when I said that they were in it until the end. I guess kicking onside down seven points with 1:19 left in the game doesn't qualify as "the end", in your book. It does in mine.

More facts of the matter: i) Ohio St was making it look ugly early in the first half, up 14-0 -- then Minnesota forced turn overs and tied it 14-14 right before the end of the first half (Ohio St did kick a field goal to make it 17-14 at the half, ii) Ohio St was making it look ugly again early in the second half, up 31-14 -- then Minnesota forced turn overs and brought it to 24-31, kicking onside to get the ball back with about a minute left.

That's staying in it until the end. That's not a "decisive" win.

So it appears that without all those points off turnovers, Minnesota gets blown off their own field by OSU. Now Minnesota has smart coaches; they build and coach their team to use their natural home field advantage - a big part of which is the cold, snowy weather - with a ball control offense and an emphasis on take-aways. It seems to work well for them.

But my point above was that OSU's accomplishment by winning at Minnesota in mid November was every bit as strong as TCU's accomplishment by winning at Fort Worth in mid September. Just suppose TCU had played at Minnesota in mid November: Do you think those kids from Texas could have avoided those turnovers in the cold, snowy weather, against a Minnesota team coached to force them? Seems to me that TCU would have fared no better than OSU, and possibly worse.

Now I don't care if you disagree with my definition of a "decisive" win, nor if you pretend not to understand my point, because the selection committee understood it and put OSU in the playoff where they belong.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:41 am 
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Dennis wrote:
So it appears that without all those points off turnovers, Minnesota gets blown off their own field by OSU. Now Minnesota has smart coaches; they build and coach their team to use their natural home field advantage - a big part of which is the cold, snowy weather - with a ball control offense and an emphasis on take-aways. It seems to work well for them.

But my point above was that OSU's accomplishment by winning at Minnesota in mid November was every bit as strong as TCU's accomplishment by winning at Fort Worth in mid September. Just suppose TCU had played at Minnesota in mid November: Do you think those kids from Texas could have avoided those turnovers in the cold, snowy weather, against a Minnesota team coached to force them? Seems to me that TCU would have fared no better than OSU, and possibly worse.

Now I don't care if you disagree with my definition of a "decisive" win, nor if you pretend not to understand my point, because the selection committee understood it and put OSU in the playoff where they belong.


Yep, the darn turnovers always ruin everything. They really should disallow those things from the game of football. Never helps anyone.

On the other hand, I'm sure the Gophers coaches didn't exactly script for Ohio St to block the FG and run it back for a touchdown. That probably was not in the script. So right there, even if they block it but it don't run it back -- Minnesota tied the game with 1:19 left instead of down seven. Or you could also say that the Gopher coaches probably didn't intend for there to be a blown assignment on defense -- twice -- such that both plays resulted in long touchdowns for Ohio St. That probably was not in the script. So if you hold those to FG instead of TD, that's an 8 point difference -- Minnesota just took a one point lead with 1:19 left.

Sorry Dennis, but any way you slice it - unless you're just choosing to be completely obtuse - Minnesota was in the game until the end.


Now, your overall argument is for putting Ohio State over TCU in the top four. That argument is completely valid and one that I agree with. Ohio St played the harder schedule and they won (blew out) their CCG. Both aspects that TCU can't match up with. That is why the selection committee chose Ohio St over TCU. It had nothing to do with Minnesota.

In fact, the reason that TCU was ranked over Baylor the entire time was because of TCU's win over Minnesota.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:45 am 
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Dennis wrote:
tute79 wrote:
So yeasterday, Wisconsin's head coach resigned to take the same position at Oregon State.

Seems like at best a "lateral" move. Not many would say that Oregon State (little brothers to the Phil Knight / Nike-sponsored juggernaut) is higher-profile than Wisconsin.

Possibly the Wisconsin coach was about to be fired (after the embarrassing 59-0 drubbing).
Or the cupboard was about to go bare, with Melvin going to the NFL in the upcoming draft....

Theories ?

Almost certainly was not about to be fired.

One reason appears to be that Anderson still has a lot of family out west, and this puts him closer.

I suspect it had something to do with recruiting/admissions. Like Northwestern, Stanford, and some other top schools, Wisconsin has higher admission requirements than NCAA minimums. Last year at least 3 of Anderson's commitments were unable to meet Wisconsin's admission standards, and had to de-commit. I believe 2 of these ended up enrolling at other B1G schools and 1 at a MAC school. I also think 1 of these was a juco transfer, which generally are not the type of recruits Wisconsin pursues; however Anderson himself was once a juco transfer and he strongly believes in this path. Realistically, it will always be a struggle to get juco transfers past Wisconsin's admissions office, so he may have just wanted to avoid that struggle.

Bret Bielema left Wisconsin to take the Arkansas job a few years back. That could not be much beyond a lateral move, if really that. Arkansas was a mess following the Bobby Petrino/J. L. Smith saga. I don't recall the salary differences at the time. Bielema was doing a fine job at Wisconsin then, so him leaving was a bit of a head scratcher.
I do think it is odd Alvarez chose to coach Wisconsin this year for their bowl game. Gezz, let go and give an assistant coach that one game shot.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:10 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
Bret Bielema left Wisconsin to take the Arkansas job a few years back. That could not be much beyond a lateral move, if really that. Arkansas was a mess following the Bobby Petrino/J. L. Smith saga. I don't recall the salary differences at the time. Bielema was doing a fine job at Wisconsin then, so him leaving was a bit of a head scratcher.
I do think it is odd Alvarez chose to coach Wisconsin this year for their bowl game. Gezz, let go and give an assistant coach that one game shot.


I believe Bielema was doing some things he wasn't supposed to be doing (outside of football) in Madison. So perhaps he left (or was forced out behind closed doors) so as to save face for the Wisconsin brand.

This year's Wisconsin seniors asked Alvarez to coach them in the bowl game.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:13 pm 
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By the way Dennis, you were right and I was wrong about the admissions standards (supposedly) playing a role:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... head-coach

Quote:
Alvarez has said he was taken aback by Andersen's decision. He said Andersen left for personal reasons, but also said Andersen had some issues with Wisconsin's admission standards and felt like it made recruiting more difficult.



However, frankly - I don't buy it for a second. It's a large, public university. They should be able to get anyone the coach wants into the door, so long as he passes NCAA minimums. Sounds like an excuse.


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