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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:22 pm 
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wbyeager wrote:
The SEC East also works because it is essentially the SEC North - swap Arkansas and Florida and you would have serviceable North/South divisions.


The trouble with a North/South realignment and sliding over Florida is that their traditional rivals like Georgia are all in the East and are far more convenient for travel.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Until the Big Ten gets some better football real estate (not good markets, but states with great recruiting), any directional split is going to create an instant "have" and "have not" distinction. East/West is doable so long as the western side gets into Texas, or takes Oklahoma, who can get into Texas.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:22 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Until the Big Ten gets some better football real estate (not good markets, but states with great recruiting), any directional split is going to create an instant "have" and "have not" distinction. East/West is doable so long as the western side gets into Texas, or takes Oklahoma, who can get into Texas.


Maryland was the ice breaker. Eventually, I see the Big Ten pushing further into the ACC via schools like UVA, UNC, GA Tech, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:44 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Until the Big Ten gets some better football real estate (not good markets, but states with great recruiting), any directional split is going to create an instant "have" and "have not" distinction. East/West is doable so long as the western side gets into Texas, or takes Oklahoma, who can get into Texas.


Maryland was the ice breaker. Eventually, I see the Big Ten pushing further into the ACC via schools like UVA, UNC, GA Tech, etc.


Do you think those schools would want to join the Big Ten after this lawsuit? Would the Big Ten or UMD demand some some of "peace offering" for the pound of flesh they took from whoever really paid for that whole affair? I'd imagine those ACC schools might demand even better share structures than UMD got.

I think UMD burned some bridges in their move, and that their method of departure raised all sorts of executive and procedural red flags that those schools' alumni bases will not stand for. I think it could only happen at Maryland because of the general mismanagement of their athletics department and the malaise running through some of the fans, as well as the school getting a Big Ten guy at the president's helm.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:01 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Quinn wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Until the Big Ten gets some better football real estate (not good markets, but states with great recruiting), any directional split is going to create an instant "have" and "have not" distinction. East/West is doable so long as the western side gets into Texas, or takes Oklahoma, who can get into Texas.


Maryland was the ice breaker. Eventually, I see the Big Ten pushing further into the ACC via schools like UVA, UNC, GA Tech, etc.


Do you think those schools would want to join the Big Ten after this lawsuit? Would the Big Ten or UMD demand some some of "peace offering" for the pound of flesh they took from whoever really paid for that whole affair? I'd imagine those ACC schools might demand even better share structures than UMD got.

I think UMD burned some bridges in their move, and that their method of departure raised all sorts of executive and procedural red flags that those schools' alumni bases will not stand for. I think it could only happen at Maryland because of the general mismanagement of their athletics department and the malaise running through some of the fans, as well as the school getting a Big Ten guy at the president's helm.


Easy to see it as a possibility...

Virginia is the B1G's next target. If Armageddon happens they seem like the easiest to convince. Ideally they like to add UNC but from all report that doesn't seem likely (SEC bound). Easiest scenario is to add Kansas in the West and you're set at 16 without shifting the divisions but if they want to move Indiana to the West (w/ Purdue, Illy, NW) then they have to add another ACC school like GT, Syracuse, Pitt or maybe even UConn (AAC).

North Carolina is the SEC's next target, but reports were that they likely would have had to take Duke as well...shift Mizzou to the West and you have 16 w/o much shifting.

The ACC has 3 ready made replacements in UConn, Cincy, and WVU, if they can add NDfb then they'd likely go for a 16th (Temple? Memphis?).

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:43 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
Maryland was the ice breaker. Eventually, I see the Big Ten pushing further into the ACC via schools like UVA, UNC, GA Tech, etc.


Doesn't the B1G still want Notre Dame? You know, the one who claims to be too superior and joining for football is beneath them? Louisville just whooped them on their home turf, welcome to 'give-you-five-games' ACC! One sided deal there, Swoffie. Notre Dame doesn't bind conferences, it exploits them.

The ACC will hold together if the network launches and revenue doesn't get incredibly less. The ACC has varied interests and factions, but they do like playing each other and UVA and UNC would be among the last of them to be prompted to leave.

With some of these power conferences at 14 already, are they the ones who really need to be expanding? There's enough struggles scheduling what they've already got.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:05 pm 
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The B1G needs to move southward to escape the inevitable demographic decline of the Midwest. Going after Virginia and North Carolina provides the best return on investment. It also allows them to "fix" the separation of Indiana and Purdue even if there is no relief on the divisional scheduling requirement.

Likewise, the SEC can "fix" its not-really-East division by similarly plundering the ACC. The SEC needs access to rapidly growing North Carolina, and Virginia Tech gives them inroads to influential markets in Virginia, including part of the Washington market.

The Big 12 has interests desired by everyone. The Pac 12 needs to move east, the Big 10 needs to go south, and the SEC wants to overtake Texas (the state, if not the school in Austin as well). The ACC, even with a few holes in it, still has plenty to offer to whatever remains of the Big 12.

If the ACC goes down 3-4 schools, the perfect comeback would be to give Texas the Notre Dame deal, then add Texas Tech, Baylor, and TCU. West Virginia comes along if the ACC loses a fourth football member.


This locks the Pac into taking four of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State. Iowa State draws short straw but is bailed out by the ACC, who then further exacts revenge on the B1G by taking Cincinnati:

West - Iowa St, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor
North - BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU
East - Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Wake
South - FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson

The quads may very well be for scheduling purposes only. Everyone plays nine conference games, and 2 out of 3 years will be playing Texas or Notre Dame, who now play 6 ACC games per year. Texas and Notre Dame are allowed to count each other in that rotation, and each uses the "extra" game every third year to focus on a traditional rival (like Texas-Texas Tech or Notre Dame-Boston College).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:01 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
Quinn wrote:
Maryland was the ice breaker. Eventually, I see the Big Ten pushing further into the ACC via schools like UVA, UNC, GA Tech, etc.


Doesn't the B1G still want Notre Dame? You know, the one who claims to be too superior and joining for football is beneath them? Louisville just whooped them on their home turf, welcome to 'give-you-five-games' ACC! One sided deal there, Swoffie. Notre Dame doesn't bind conferences, it exploits them.

The ACC will hold together if the network launches and revenue doesn't get incredibly less. The ACC has varied interests and factions, but they do like playing each other and UVA and UNC would be among the last of them to be prompted to leave.

With some of these power conferences at 14 already, are they the ones who really need to be expanding? There's enough struggles scheduling what they've already got.

No, it doesn't. The strategy that led the Big Ten to pursue Notre Dame has been completely fulfilled by the additions of Nebraska, Rutgers, and Maryland. At this stage, Notre Dame couldn't get into the Big Ten even if they begged (which isn't going to happen because Notre Dame has no desire to be in the Big Ten). It makes no sense for the Big Ten to add schools in states where BTN is already on basic cable TV, as it would just dilute the per school payout.

The Big Ten's new strategy includes expansion along the DC-to-ATL corridor, so UVA, UNC, and GT are exactly the right targets, although all three are covered by GoR's until 2027. They will also want another national football brand name program, such as Oklahoma, which is covered by a GoR until 2025.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:09 pm 
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I still don't get it. Why does the Big TEN feel so 'ambitiously interested' to expand through the South? Like, having their current membership (now with Rutgers & Maryland in the mix) isn't damn enough? And I meant it on a standpoint on putting money making aside and stuff. If that does happen, then the P5 conferences would go beyond 64 schools, and I bet that there might be chaos and conspiracy, among other issues thanks to the conference realignment.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:38 pm 
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BIG would love to have ND. Top following and that matters wherever BTN be.
No ACC school in south really wants BIG.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:35 am 
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The door will always be open for Notre Dame. Always.

It doesn't matter what some institutions feel about them, enough want them. Enough know it "completes" the Big Ten's presence/control of the midwest. It's a legacy addition, much like Nebraska, which reflects a conference of schools with deep ties to its members. Really, only PSU, Rutgers, and UMD are the outliers. Adding Notre Dame...heck, the B1G could snip its holdings east of OH and be done with it. I'm sure there are some in the conference who would actually like that.

But until that day comes...I don't know where they look. I'm sure they're watching the Big XII. It really wouldn't surprise me if the expansion matter is addressed there, and in the flurry of activity, a school bolts. I still think Kansas is going to be a Big Ten school, and maybe within the decade.

FSU's AD recently addressed the Board and told them the network was coming. Well, so is Christmas.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:03 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
I still don't get it. Why does the Big TEN feel so 'ambitiously interested' to expand through the South? Like, having their current membership (now with Rutgers & Maryland in the mix) isn't damn enough? And I meant it on a standpoint on putting money making aside and stuff. If that does happen, then the P5 conferences would go beyond 64 schools, and I bet that there might be chaos and conspiracy, among other issues thanks to the conference realignment.


See the map below. They Big Ten wanted in that sprawling metro that is the DC-Philly-NYC corridor and now would like to tap into the growing South population.

The only adjacent areas they are close to for future expansion are New England (BC/UConn), Up-State NY (Syracuse), Virginia (UVA), St Louis (Mizzou), Kansas City (KU), Kentucky (UK) and West Virginia (WVU)

Quick analysis: WVU is not a B1G type school Mizzou/Kentucky aren't leaving the SEC. that leaves 3 candidates to the East (Syracuse, UVA, BC/UConn) and 1 to the West (KU).


The other targets that either require additional expansion to fit in the B1G's self touted contiguous footprint would be North Carolina (need VA), Georgia (needs NC), Florida (needs GA), Oklahoma (need KU), Texas (needs OU)

Quick analysis: UT/OU are likely not an option unless chaos strikes as both have baggage (OSU/TT) that are not B1G type schools. This means that the B1G's only plans to move South is all based around them getting UVA as UVA by itself is a great school that could pair well with KU in the West or Syracuse/UConn/BC in the Northeast and also bridge to NC for UNC (#1 target after UVA) or Duke.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:05 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
The door will always be open for Notre Dame. Always.

It doesn't matter what some institutions feel about them, enough want them. Enough know it "completes" the Big Ten's presence/control of the midwest. It's a legacy addition, much like Nebraska, which reflects a conference of schools with deep ties to its members. Really, only PSU, Rutgers, and UMD are the outliers. Adding Notre Dame...heck, the B1G could snip its holdings east of OH and be done with it. I'm sure there are some in the conference who would actually like that.

But until that day comes...I don't know where they look. I'm sure they're watching the Big XII. It really wouldn't surprise me if the expansion matter is addressed there, and in the flurry of activity, a school bolts. I still think Kansas is going to be a Big Ten school, and maybe within the decade.

FSU's AD recently addressed the Board and told them the network was coming. Well, so is Christmas.

Wondered a few times, where did that SN come from? Sounded familiar but could not place it. Then heard it in an old movie, Blazing Saddles, recently that I watched a few times before years ago and look up the Gabby Johnson phrase: 'bushwakin', hornswagin, cracker croaker, gonna rouin me Bishen Cutter'. Hope I didn't spoil the intrigue, it is unique and was a puzzle.

Absolutely the B1G would not pass on Notre Dame if it was an unconditional offer. B1G representatives have said as much within the last three years and before. BTN (a fraction of TV programming) is all over much of the country and that is not limited to states of school placements. ND, like them or not, are watched and followed beyond near all others, even during less than stellar years. Bowls will compromise for them. Schools will go to great lengths to try to get them scheduled.


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