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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:06 pm 
Am the only one here supporting Notre Dame? Maybe I should register for this site to give balance. I may have done an extreme to make point but the point stands. Big East has there teams and will be strong. I am Notre Dame fan for sure so are millions, and many or equal member do not care for them. If they play San Diego State that is OK is not Marshall Falk played there and San Diego has had good teams. Those teams Notre Dame play they play most long time and they are mostly well known colleges even by those who do not follow sports much.
If Big East is pleased and accepts the role with Notre Dame then what is the problem? Notre Dame said they will play another game with Big East. If Notre Dame can play all over country and find those to play them then why should they be bashed for doing so and others agreed to it?
We know Notre Dame is not liked by many because of attention they receive and they stay football independent. the NCAA allows a college to be independent if they want and have the means. If I worked in factory to many years to remember and have Irish name and blood and lived in a big city I can still be fan and have opinion and follow Notre Dame. If I did not go to college I put three through NYU and City College NY.
If my view disturbs others that is my view and stand with it. If my typing and communicating is not perfect i have a disability. If this is open format debate is alright and people can not agree but to imply people who differ with poor character intents when not know them they should think better.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:05 am 
That's a rhetorical question...when are they backing out of that deal anyway?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:27 am 
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Quote:
Am the only one here supporting Notre Dame? Maybe I should register for this site to give balance. I may have done an extreme to make point but the point stands. Big East has there teams and will be strong. I am Notre Dame fan for sure so are millions, and many or equal member do not care for them. If Big East is pleased and accepts the role with Notre Dame then what is the problem? Notre Dame said they will play another game with Big East. If Notre Dame can play all over country and find those to play them then why should they be bashed for doing so and others agreed to it?
We know Notre Dame is not liked by many because of attention they receive and they stay football independent. the NCAA allows a college to be independent if they want and have the means. If I worked in factory to many years to remember and have Irish name and blood and lived in a big city I can still be fan and have opinion and follow Notre Dame. If I did not go to college I put three through NYU and City College NY.

The main problem I have with Notre Dame (and I don't know who else shares this view) is that they get BCS access as an independent when no other independent gets this access. If ND had to jump through all of the hoops that C-USA and the MWC does to get into the BCS plus not get treated as a conference but as a team when it comes to payouts, I wouldn't have much of a problem with ND being an independent. I do think that ND is using Big East for their bowl tie-ins, but if the Big East allows it, really that is the Big East's problem.
BTW, per an old family legend, I am descended from a Scottish slave (captured during one of Scotland's many wars with the hated English) who received help from an unlikely English benefactor who set him up in the U.S. Since both the Scottish and the Irish were tormented throughout history by the English, I am not quick to judge the Irish and do sympathesize with them some.
By all means do register. The more, the merrier.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:43 pm 
There are fans, and I would suggest particularly some Notre Dame fans, who are focused on one team and who they may be playing currently or the next game so to speak. Their interest and vision may not reach into conference structures, political and stategic moves, and outlook that entangles entire divisions.
I view Notre Dame as an entity that impedes certain matters from being settled, equity being one. Frankly, if Notre Dame did join the Big 10 or the new BE for all sports, I think that would be a positive development for the major conferences and would beneficial to Notre Dame itself in the long term context.
Notre Dame's ole' time tradition, achievements, loyal fan support, and media attention are respected or recognized. One can blame Notre Dame alone, for taking advantage of lucrative opportunities that has maintained or enhanced the dollars rolling in and keeping them minimumly free of collective control.
I agree with you, and others, D&Dfan is on your prime points.
Where conferences, individual schools, and college football related organizations, including the BCS and other bowls, do have some control, are the ENABLING factor. This being, if they view Notre Dame has an advantaged over others in terms of money and access, then they need to tighten various criteria without venturing into conspiracy or anti-trust activity. Fundamentally, correctly or not, a conspiracy, is basically what certain football schools in the BE claimed the ACC and Miami were doing. Ironically, Notre Dame played the sideline and/or manipulator, in much of this while giving the impression of detachment. Certainly, Notre Dame's BE involvement, or lack of in fb, was a element in multiple issues. Had Notre Dame been playing BE football, would the departures had happened, including BC. In this sense, Notre Dame is a player, and fair game. Certainly Notre Dame's recent and vague announcement about "supporting" BE football makes them subject to scrutiny in this regard.
While pressure may deservingly be placed on Notre Dame, that needs to be coupled with exposure and critiques of their enablers.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:58 pm 
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BENotreDame,

My apologies for anything construed as a personal assualt. If I've offended thee, I'm sorry. Don't let me or anyone else stop you from having your opinions.

I'll also point out I'm a believer in the fact that Notre Dame is good for college football and have no problems whatsoever in them being independent. If they can make it work out for themselves, more power to them. I would rather the world be full of more loyal fans such as yourselve then those who stand idly by on the fence.

Part of your argument earlier came off (to me) as having a sense of detachment from the sincere issues for the BE, as if only those issues that affect the Irish are of importance. Considering I already feel that ND's interests in the BE are less than genuine, this is where I felt challenged. As D&DFan pointed out above, a lot of the problems within the BE/ND relationship are the fault of the BE, so I do not begrudge the Irish for getting away with whatever they can. But lets not kid ourselves either: The Irish are exploiting the politcal weaknesses of the BE for the sole purpose of maintaining their hold on northeastern football fans, recruits and money for as long as possible. And this comes at the expense of the BE football members. Check the message boards of most BE football fans and you'll find a strong desire to issue the ultimatum to ND: "Get in or don't stop us from moving on without you." Everything I've read so far has lead me to believe the Irish have worked against this cause, hence my frustrations.

Notre Dame stadium is and always should be a great place for the game. My grandfather tried very hard to make me an Irish devotee and I hope someday to see a game there. Yet as I've explained on many other threads ND is not the utmost team player they make themselves out to be when it comes to their conference brethren in the BE. They have to be in order to prevent further programs from eroding their power base. We'll see how long they can hold onto this arrangement.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:49 pm 
Gotta add a few more to the list of enablers for Notre Dame than just the BE?
...BE, foremost perhaps, Commissioner, membership
...BCS Founding Committee
...NBC and their advertisers
...Numerous favoring sports writers, commentators, media outlets, and newspapers
...Big 10 members particularly, Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue
...PAC 10 members Southern California and Stanford
...anyone agreeing to play Notre Dame not on a home at home basis or sites away from their opponents' home campus viewed as an away game
...The Gator Bowl among a few others
...Ireland and the city of Dublin
...Organized Religion Hierarchy
...Madison Square Garden
...The GOP ::) of the post Goldwater era

OK, I'll stop the rambling, its starting to get goofy, and I will spare the service academies from the list. But that long string of unbroken wins over Navy, especially those years when the Middies were lacking in means....????


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:56 pm 
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I don't think the special treatment they get is fair or is particularly good for college football. Was it beneficial for a ND team to get stomped in the Fiesta (the last 2 times they went)?

I don't blame them for doing what they think is in their best interest. I resent the bowls and TV networks more for what they do.

If ND joined the B10 or the BE I think it would be good for college fb.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:23 pm 
I would like to see ND in the B10. They have the most tradition with that conference.


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