IMO, what is really enabling ND independence is the BCS. If the BCS came out with a requirement that all BCS bowl participants must be in BCS conferences, and independent schools are not considered conferences, then and only then will we see ND finally start looking for a conference home. ND does not want to be shut out of a national championship. It has happened before to ND, and the Irish have no desire for this to happen again. What the Big Ten does or doesn't do is really irrelevant until the BCS adopts the requirement above. Once the BCS ceases to enable ND independence, ND will likely join the Big Ten, although there is somewhat of a chance they could join the Big East.

Golden dome shines again
After one of the worst periods in its history, there is a feeling of excitement at Notre Dame
BY ARTHUR STAPLE
STAFF CORRESPONDENT
January 30, 2005
http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/ny-spsunspec0130,0,2650277.story?coll=ny-collegesports-bigpix

College football: Irish discuss games in N.J.
Tuesday, February 01, 2005
BY MATTHEW FUTTERMAN
Star-Ledger Staff
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/110723951569810.xml

It is done. Notre Dame taking expanding role in Big East and be good partner. They will play at Giants Stadium and bring Army and Navy in as good partners also. All this chat of split is no more needed. Notre Dame has taken care of Big East. They will let they be on NBC TV at times too. With 3 Big East and Army and Navy, Notre Dame be the dominant power in the East. Bye Bye Miami. No longling for Penn State. Regret it BC; and Va Tech go too. Notre Dame is all Big East needs and they there to help.

BENotreDame, Please tell me you're not a college grad, even UGA!

You're right about ND wanting to be the dominant power in the East, though I feel safe in assuming they've wanted that all along. However, IMO you're wrong about calling them a good partner, considering this great for the BE or assuming the other schools will suddenly drop off the map.

Good partners don't force their fellow partners to play in neutral-site games; They play home-and-home games.

So nice that ND will "let (BE schools) be on NBC!" I'll bet real money ND would've played several BE schools regardless of any "agreement," after all even you agree they want to be the dominant power in the East.

This isn't a gift to the BE: It's a chump move by ND that is being packaged with hype and circumstance to hide the fact that ND wants it's cake (independence & national prestige) and to be able to eat it, too (affiliation with a region, easy access to post-season). I pray every one of their true rivals beats the living tar out of them, and that ultimately the BE splits (which it will, in time) just to force ND to face some unfriendly choices.

Mr. GunnerFanOffline what does Georgia have to do with Big East and Notre Dame? You think Georgia is the worst college? You need to learn more about colleges and what they offer and what conferences each are in. I am not here to talk about bulldogs. They do not play in Big East.

Big East and Notre Dame make partnership and it will last long time. Big 10 does not fit Notre Dames independence past and the teams they want to play. The Big East says join us, and you can play all over the country still and play often in the eastern states where markets and radio and tv are big. They will share good bowls too.

ND should be in the Big 10 and PSU in the Big East - it just makes sense (geographically anyway) - The UnderHog

and BC should be in the ACC with UMD???

Obviously you're not a regular reader or else you'd know I'm Georgia Tech grad, hence the UGA jab. I actually respect that school an know full well their conference, their academic virtues, the quality of the local music scene and more.


Learning is encouraged and appreciated here. Oh, and BTW, ND doesn't play BE football, either. They may play against some BE schools but I don't see them in the conference standings and I sure as heck don't see them sharing in conference football revenue.



a) No one fits their independent past;
b) I seem to notice as many B10 teams on their docket as BE teams. And I also recall the ND faculty voting in favor of the offered move to the B10 years ago.



No disagreement here. We just happen to feel differently about how much this benefits the BE. IMO, the open ended invitation by the BE is a mistake, one that has yielded a one-sided affair.


Good talk. Had fun. Now getting water.

I see your posts Gunnerfan. I read those from tigersharke too. You put on Big East papers. Those minutes did get out and seem to be true.
Notre Dame hold them all together. The basketball colleges say one way and the football say another way. Notre Dame advised them and had the decision to make it all stick.
I do see where you coming from Mr. Gunner since you gone to Georgia Techology. That is ACC and they got Miami and BC and Virg. Tech. The ACC people do not like the Big East. They tried Notre Dame too but Notre Dame say no them. Notre Dame would play good for basketball with Duke, No. Carolina and Maryland. They do not be nation wide like Notre Dame does and planning their team schedules to be.
They make split in Big East and can make ACC more happy. Acc will want to end good Big EAst basketball. But that could back fire if Notre Dame goes with thoses football teams if that happened to do. See what could happen then below.
Notre Dame - North Carlina - Big east wins
West Virginia - Clemson - Big East wins
Pittsburgh - Wake Farest - Big East Wins
Rutgers - Duke - Big East Wins
Louisville - North Car. State - Big East Wins
Syracuse - Georgia Tec. - Big East Wins
Conn - Virginia - Draw
South Florida - Virg. Tec - ACC wins
Cincinnati - Miami - ACC wins
New member Memphis - Maryland - Draw
New member East Carolina - Boston college - Draw
New member Marshall - Florida State - Draw

It usually go then Big East 6 and ACC 2 with 4 draws. Not all draws will go ACC way so Big East would be more than half better. But Big East do not half to do this with all other basketball schools so ACC would even more fraid if things stay same too. Remember new Big Big East will be not just football with Notre Dame but Navy and army too part time for football. You know what Navy did for two years. Will be the pattern to come. Can see why ACC is fear Big East more. But ACC deserved to for sneaking in on Big East.

What?

a) If Notre Dame sides with the BE football schools (HIGHLY UNLIKELY, IMO) then they'll deserve what they get, most notably a decidedly different look from the entire country compared to their "national" schedule they have now. Think about it: East Carolina, Marshall and USF are hardly the calibre of schools ND wishes to permanently associate itself with. Read the other threads or fill me in on why ND would now change tack versus everything it's fans have screamed bloody murder about for two years now.

b) Assuming your little competition above is for basketball, you flatter yourself. BIG TIME. Rutgers over Duke? ND over UNC? ECU draws BC?

Assuming its football the nonsense remains. Marshall-FSU = draw? Syracuse -GT = BE win?

You have your personal favorites, that's fine. I have only respect for true fans of any team, provided they're honest and legit. Please address the latter if continuing this discussion.

Mr. Gunnerfan you decide who is true fan and legit? how fortunate we all are.

BE, the TV ratings and the contracts speak for themselves.

Fine. I'll rephrase.

Apparently you are a ND fan. (How am I doing so far?) ND football and its fans pride themselves on their prestige, ability to play a national schedule and their ability to play top quality opponents. With regard to those top-quality opponents, that's practically all they play: Prestigious private schools (BC, Stanford, USC...), Major State Universities (Michigan, Purdue, Tennessee...), the military academies and select urban land grant schools like Pittsburgh. I'm certain you have to go back before 1980 to find anyone other than the type of school listed above on the ND schedule, even for bowl games! That's how revered the program is in the eyes of the managers. Looking forward on their schedule only one game against SDSU (2008) would be considered a variance from this pattern, but at least they hold appeal for a notable urban area.

The reason I bring this is up?

1) Your presentation of ND as "going" with the BE football schools runs contrary to the concept of preserving ND's national schedule and prestige;

2) Your suggested new members of Memphis, ECU and Marshall do not match the criteria currently established for ND opponents. Memphis and ECU are historic teachers colleges, though Memphis has adopted some semblence of research status, while Marshall is a regional comprehensive college. By rights none of them should show up on ND's radar, and thus I find it silly to think ND would associate themselves in anyway with such conference partners.

There's a reason ND plays the schedule they do and against the type of oppoenents they do: Marketing. They're obliged to play big names and/or in big places in order to appease their fans and NBC. Home games against Bowling Green won't cut it, let alone a road game against someone not considered TV worthy by themselves. ND's proposal to begin playing in more big cities at pro stadiums? A neat ploy to avoid playing true road games and command the TV money for that contest. That's how much they love the BE: So much so that they won't play AT most BE stadiums but instead need "neutral" games at the Meadowlands.

Our disagreeing in assessing who'd win head-to-head contests is one thing, and I certainly don't begrudge anyone for supporting their school. The casualness with which you've grouped ND with these other schools, however,... this is either information you didn't know or didn't care about, and that's why I was questioning your legitimacy as a ND fan. By all means, please feel free to prove me wrong.