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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:14 pm 
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Bunch of articles here....

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA081405.1N.SWCcover.6f064a1d.html

Mods: Plz feel free to move to conference history if more appropriate


Last edited by panthersc97 on Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:04 am 
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What a great find! Thank you for posting it! I went to school at UT around the time the SWC collapsed. It was very interesting to read these articles. I read the article about how UT & OU might be thinking about leaving the Big XII and the reaction by fans of the other Big XII schools and it really reminds me of the lead up to the breakup of the SWC. The other schools' admins never actually beleived it would happen. Accurate or not, I think that is the same view the northern schools' admins (and fans) may have in the Big XII today.

The articles were also very helpful in remembering all the potential alignments that were under discussion at the time. A&M and Houston to the SEC...man, I had totally forgotten about that. I had thought that UT was leaning at going to the PAC 10 with A&M, but apparently A&M was never in that discussion---just hazy, mistaken memories. Interesting that Stanford of all schools has it out for UT... Lots of good stuff.

I think people who want to understand why the Big XII should not take their position for granted should read these articles. They explain the motivation of UT and (not at all meaning to be pompous about my old school) the reality of the UT's power and influence in the West. I think the fact that UT & AM encouraged Arkansas to jump so they could leave as well is telling. The rumours swirled for almost a decade before UT & A&M could escape the SWC.

Deja vu, man.


Last edited by finitemanworks on Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:52 am 
It would have been to have Houston in the Big XII and Baylor in Conference USA.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:33 pm 
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It is really interesting to think about. Houston pumps out a ton more graduates than Baylor, but Baylor had a ton more people in positions of power in the Texas government.

Lt. Governor Bob Bullock was a Baylor grad. I remember in college reading about him in the paper when he was trying to run for governor. Everyone acknowledged he was a fine politician, but he turned off a lot of people. He had a rep as being a guy who got things done in a very confrontational way. He was a politician you didn't want to piss off back then. He was an old school Southern politician. I thought the story of the A&M admins rushing to call him back was classic.

I thought it was also very interesting reading about Houston and A&M the lines, " A&M administrators, apparently fearful of a backlash if the school made the first move solo, held back [from bolting to the SEC]. UT wasn't interested [in the SEC] and a suitable partner from the SWC couldn't be found. The SEC, meanwhile, backed off on expansion. "

That certainly raisies a lot of questions. If A&M left with Houston and UT had problems getting into a conference they liked or on terms they liked A&M might have had UT alums on them --- scary thought. Also, was Houston not considered "a suitable partner" by the SEC? Interesting...

I can't help but wonder what would have happened if A&M had made the jump to the SEC. What if A&M had insisted the SEC bring Houston with them to have Houston's Alumni base backing them and to counter the view of A&M hurting the other SWC schools.

What then? Baylor and Tech would have blocked UT to the PAC 10 (if Stanford ever got around to OKing it.) or Big 10 and would have insisted they come with into the Big XII. Would TCU have been swept along? Or would the Big XII have gone with the rumored plan of BYU? Would BYU have actually have left their commitment to the gang of 5? (When did that agreement come together anyway?) With a Utah/BYU separation, would a Utah/Colorado pairing been something that would interest the PAC 10?

What if Baylor was in CUSA would the other privates, would TCU have left CUSA? Would the much discussed conference of southern privates be in existance today?

Just fascinating.

I thought the article on TCU's near miss was also very interesting. It was an interesting point to make that if this had happened a couple of years earlier, TCU might have been the fourth team as former speaker of the Texas House Gib Lewis weilded that kind of influence... A few years earlier still and pre- death penalty SMU is a no-brainer #4...


Last edited by finitemanworks on Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:28 pm 
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Yep now Texas is going to tell K-State and Iowa Stat to leave so New Mexico could join the Big 12.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:05 pm 
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That is what you got out of everything I wrote on that thread? Man, you are depressing me.

New Mexico is not the point. Memphis is not the point.

The point is that the Big XII was and is a marriage of convenience. UT is not going to let second tier northern schools (ie. not Big 10 schools) dictate UT's future. That may seem pompous coming from me, but look around. It is not like UCLA and USC let Arizona State and Oregon State dictate the future of the PAC 10. Michigan doesn't defer to conference leadership to Iowa.

The SWC was a conference Texans loved being in and a conference in which we had vested interests. The Big XII is successful, no doubt, but it is not beloved in Texas. If UT and A&M decide to leave they may be forced to drag along Tech and Baylor, but we don't care about anyone outside of Texas and Oklahoma. When the negatives outweigh the positives in UT and A&M's minds that will be that for the Big XII. They won't be petitioning a school to leave first.

It is not about rebuilding the Big XII. It is about driving a top conference---who cares if it even has 9 members? Not UT. It is about being the Michigan of the Southwest. (or more UT & A&M being the UCLA and USC of the region).



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:16 pm 
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Big 12 is a top conference. Its about as good as you are going to find academically and athletically in the country. Texas is the top dog in the conference, I don't know where you keep getting at leaving at or booting members or forming a new conference.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:24 pm 
That Roy Williams quote about the Big 8 expansion remains a classic ("...they should call it the Big Texas Conference")...

A&M would probably rather be in the SEC and UT would probably rather be in the Big Ten/Pac-10...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:30 pm 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/football/ncaa/08/19/houston/index.html

Also, what was up with that former UH AD saying that Houston was only invited to the Southwest Conference so that they could be "contained" (paraphrasing) and not be able to surpass UT, A&M, etal...if UH was on a collision course with becoming an independent basketball/football powerhouse (ala Notre Dame), why did they accept the SWC invitation and why did they stay until the end?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:50 pm 
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Yeah, just about every mention of UH you read in these articles, The powers at UH really felt they were up at a much higher level than they were.

I guess when you think about Phi Slamma Jamma in the early 80's and the run and shoot Cougars of the late 80's early 90's, maybe it is forgivable, but still they really should have committed to getting their game attendence up and upgrading their facilities when it became an issue in the 80's.


Last edited by finitemanworks on Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:11 pm 
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Quote:
.


I don't want to have a hand in hijacking this thread (the subject is just too good) so I moved my response here.

http://collegesportsinfo/forum/viewtopic.php?t=839&start=60


Last edited by finitemanworks on Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:18 pm 
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Quote:
...A&M would probably rather be in the SEC and UT would probably rather be in the Big Ten/Pac-10...


No question UT would acedemically, but I think the Big XII South has been great for them, even if the Big XII itself maybe has only been very good. Perhaps good enough to change their mind about wanting into the PAC 10 itself.

I wonder if A&M would still rather be in the SEC? I really think A&M might have woken up one day and really regretted not being in the same conference as UT. Plus playing OU, OSU, and Tech? I think if I was at A&M I'd take those four over Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and LSU. (Although from a national perspective, that opinion would probably not be shared by any other school.)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:47 pm 
Mine will clearly be a minority opinion, but I believe that if the SWC were resurrected, it could survive today. Why?

1. Texas's explosive growth in population weakens the argument that the SWC market was too small and issolated. It's a different Lone Star State today.

2. There will, at some point, be a BCS championship tournament. The SWC would be a BCS conference today based on its schools. There would be plenty of interest in a race for a major BCS bearthe.

3. People outside a region watch its football games. You don't necessarily have to exapnd your base to draw in viewing fans.

4. People over-estimate the drag that private universities put on a conference. And no major conference, other than the SWC had so many privates (BU, Rice, SMU, TCU). Lots of major privates (ND, USC, Miami) are very successful. Northwestern has proven over the last ten years that a private u can compete in the Big Ten. The ACC was perfectly happy to get BC. Nothing wrong with privates.

I really do believe a SWC mix of schools could survie and thrieve today.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:40 am 
If the SWC ever gets resurrected Cusa may be the entity that resurrects it. Their headquarters is now located in Texas I believe and the conference has a core of members located there. Cusa has the potential to be cherry picked again in the next five years by BABE and the MWC. The split BE teams could possibly take 1-4 Cusa teams depending on their expansion plans in a split and the MWC could take another Texas team for a travel partner for TCU in its expansion plans and attempt to gain a BCS auto bid. Additions from a depleted WAC in the MWC conference move from the southern end of the conference and LA. TECH plus the remnants of the eastern section of Cusa put the core of this conference right back in SWC territory.

Split BE candidates are Memphis, UCF, ECU,and long shots UAB and Marshall (doubtful but mentioned in the past)

MWC candidates are Texas El Paso and Houston.

Future SWC lineup from Cusa if this were to occur:

SW core:
1. Houston or Texas El Paso
2. SMU
3. Rice
4. Tulsa
5. Tulane
6. North Texas

Depleted WAC contenders:
7. LA. Tech
8. Nevada
9. N. Mex. St.

Eastern Cusa holdovers:
10. UAB
11. So. Miss.
12. Marshall-likely to be out of place may return to MAC.
If so substitute highest ranked Sunbelt team
after N. Texas.

Tie into as many Texas Bowls and leftover Cusa Bowls as they can for the Bowling season as they are in the heart of this conference. They should be able to contract with at least five bowls: the same number that they currently have.



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:34 pm 
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Quote:
If the SWC ever gets resurrected Cusa may be the entity that resurrects it. Their headquarters is now located in Texas I believe and the conference has a core of members located there. Cusa has the potential to be cherry picked again in the next five years by BABE and the MWC. The split BE teams could possibly take 1-4 Cusa teams depending on their expansion plans in a split and the MWC could take another Texas team for a travel partner for TCU in its expansion plans and attempt to gain a BCS auto bid. Additions from a depleted WAC in the MWC conference move from the southern end of the conference and LA. TECH plus the remnants of the eastern section of Cusa put the core of this conference right back in SWC territory.

Split BE candidates are Memphis, UCF, ECU,and long shots UAB and Marshall (doubtful but mentioned in the past)

MWC candidates are Texas El Paso and Houston.

Future SWC lineup from Cusa if this were to occur:

SW core:
1. Houston or Texas El Paso
2. SMU
3. Rice
4. Tulsa
5. Tulane
6. North Texas

Depleted WAC contenders:
7. LA. Tech
8. Nevada
9. N. Mex. St.

Eastern Cusa holdovers:
10. UAB
11. So. Miss.
12. Marshall-likely to be out of place may return to MAC.
If so substitute highest ranked Sunbelt team
after N. Texas.

Tie into as many Texas Bowls and leftover Cusa Bowls as they can for the Bowling season as they are in the heart of this conference. They should be able to contract with at least five bowls: the same number that they currently have.


I posted this one somewhere before, if Utah and BYU get invited to the PAC-10, I think a new SWC could be formed alot eaiser. I don't think SDSU and UNLV would want to stick around with the 5 MWC schools left, they would probally try to get back in the WAC. Then add the 5 schools from the CUSA West and you get a pretty good conference:

Air Force
Colorado State
New Mexico
Wyoming
TCU
UTEP
Houston
Rice
SMU
Tulsa

They could then add either New Mexico St and North Texas if they want the Championship Game or 2 other school combo.


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