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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:24 pm 
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Ten years in a Hypothetical Future, Penn State decides to move to the Big East, and Charlie Weis' 2005-6 season is the last winning season for Notre Dame (And he used Tyrone Willingham's team to do it). For the 2015 season, after losses to such football powers as North Dakota State, UC Davis, and Youngstown State, Notre Dame fails to make the 1a attendance cut and is dropped to 1aa.

However, the Big Ten has been converted to the Gospel of the Championship Game, and needs two more schools. No teams already in the BCS wish to join, and except for the Dakotas, the Big Ten is unwilling to go outside its footprint. Of course, the Big Ten is more than an athletic conference, it's an acedemic consortium too. Which two schools applying above are most likely to be invited to the Big Ten?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:05 am 
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You like to limit people in their choices to some very very unrealistic choices.

If it comes down to what you are suggesting here, you need to add a whole lot more MAC schools, and that would be scrapping a bottom that the B 10 wouldn't venture into. These are academic and athletic snobs here folks. I live with them. Its their nature. They either need to be a top flight state flagship/land grant research university or a top private. Pitt would be the exception here, as they are not a statewide flagship, but their academics are tops.

Of those, the only choice even close is Ohio U, and its not close. Miami U of OH is the other choice, and thats not close either. Don't even bother with the rest, in all seriousness. Big 10 snobs will laugh at you at such a suggestion. They would stay at 10 before expanding with any of these schools.


Last edited by metropolitan on Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:30 am 
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So what's wrong with:

1. Illinois State? It is older than any Big Ten school except Michigan, Northwestern, or Indiana. It's even older than Illinois by about five years.

2: Indiana State? It is older than Purdue.

3: Illinois-Chicago? It is home to the second largest (and only one in the state) medical school. In addition, it's already part of the Big Ten Academic Consortium (Alongside the Univerisity of Chicago)

4: IUPUI? It is home to Indiana's Medical and Law Schools, and Purdue's engineering school and the household pets program of Purdue's vetranary school.

5: Wayne State? It is home the the nation's largest medical school. And if having one's regents elected statewide doesn't mean a statewide purpose, I don't know what does.

6: The Dakota Schools? They after all are state flagships.


Last edited by benbreeck on Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:44 am 
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Quote:
So what's wrong with:

1. Illinois State? It is older than any Big Ten school except Michigan, Northwestern, or Indiana. It's even older than Illinois by about five years.


Academics and its an old normal school/teachers college and is not a very large research institution like all the Big 10 members. Its also small, unlike the Big 10 and is not a flagship university.


Quote:
2: Indiana State? It is older than Purdue.


Academics, an old normal school and see Illinois State, only academics is even weaker than Illinois State.


Quote:
3: Illinois-Chicago? It is home to the second largest (and only one in the state) medical school. In addition, it's already part of the Big Ten Academic Consortium (Alongside the Univerisity of Chicago)


Its in the CIC likely because of an attachment to UIUC (the flagship). They don't get an idependent vote as their vote is combined with UIUC. If they didn't have UI's medical school they wouldn't be in it. Also, its academics is not on par with a Big 10 school.


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4: IUPUI? It is home to Indiana's Medical and Law Schools, and Purdue's engineering school and the household pets program of Purdue's vetranary school.


It might have those IU professional and graduate schools but its really not IUPUI. Its really IU. Its a commuter school and its academics is not on par with Big 10 schools. Commuter schools are not the characterics of Big 10 schools, save U Minnesota, but thats the only flagship in Minnesota.


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5: Wayne State? It is home the the nation's largest medical school. And if having one's regents elected statewide doesn't mean a statewide purpose, I don't know what does.


It have those Board of Governors elected statewide but unless you go to Wayne State, no one cares or pays attention, especially in Western Michigan and the UP. Its called a Metropolitan Research University like UIC but there are no Metropolitan Research Universities in the Big 10. Its academics is not on par with the Big 10 schools. There is no support for Wayne State anyplace outside of Wayne County as far as their sports. People in Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, the Upper Peninsula, and Traverse City don't care about their sports.


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6: The Dakota Schools? They after all are state flagships.


These are flagships, but they are the among the weakest flagships academically in the nation, saver the University of Alaska at Fairbanks. USD, UND and SDSU may be on par with Montana, Wyoming and Idaho, and NDSU is more on par with Montana State and UAF. But they would be worse than Illinois State and Southern Illinois and BGSU, and those are old normal schools/regional teachers colleges. Also, market is tiny in the Dakotas. Tell you what, I will ask some Michigan and Michigan State fans today about these schools and see what they say. It will give them a good laugh.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:51 pm 
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The engineering program at NDSU is better than any normal schools.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:37 pm 
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So.

I would bet that the engineering programs at Ohio U and Miami U of OH are better than NDSU. Perhaps Western Michigan does as well. SUNY Buffalo definately does.

Most MAC schools have a higher academic rep than NDSU. Miami, Ohio, BGSU, WMU, Ball State, SUNY Buffalo, and Northern Illinois all have higher academic rep than NDSU.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:00 pm 
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Quote:


Commuter schools are not the characterics of Big 10 schools, save U Minnesota


UM has more dorm rooms than any other school in the Big Ten.

Especially Northwestern.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:18 pm 
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It also has the highest amount, or one of the highest amounts, of part-time students in the Big Ten, which is a common characteristic that you find at many urban/metropolitan like schools.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:27 pm 
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You said commuter.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:15 pm 
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Yes, and most part-time students are commuter students. They have a job full time and go to school part time, commuting to class.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:53 pm 
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Regarding Wayne State:


Quote:

It have those Board of Governors elected statewide but unless you go to Wayne State, no one cares or pays attention, especially in Western Michigan and the UP. Its called a Metropolitan Research University like UIC but there are no Metropolitan Research Universities in the Big 10. Its academics is not on par with the Big 10 schools. There is no support for Wayne State anyplace outside of Wayne County as far as their sports. People in Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, the Upper Peninsula, and Traverse City don't care about their sports.


Here's an analogy, Metropolitan:

How widespread in California is the coverage of the U.C. Irvine Anteaters? The U.C. Santa Barbara Bananna Slugs? The U.C. Santa Clara Gouchos? The U.C. San Diego Tritons? The U.C. Riverside Highlanders? The U. C. Davis Aggies?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:20 pm 
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Quote:
Regarding Wayne State:


Quote:

It have those Board of Governors elected statewide but unless you go to Wayne State, no one cares or pays attention, especially in Western Michigan and the UP. Its called a Metropolitan Research University like UIC but there are no Metropolitan Research Universities in the Big 10. Its academics is not on par with the Big 10 schools. There is no support for Wayne State anyplace outside of Wayne County as far as their sports. People in Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, the Upper Peninsula, and Traverse City don't care about their sports.


Here's an analogy, Metropolitan:

How widespread in California is the coverage of the U.C. Irvine Anteaters? The U.C. Santa Barbara Bananna Slugs? The U.C. Santa Clara Gouchos? The U.C. San Diego Tritons? The U.C. Riverside Highlanders? The U. C. Davis Aggies?


There is a difference between these schools and Wayne State. California is a huge state. Its 3.5 times the size of Michigan. None of those schools would end up in the Pac 10, but they are located in a state that grows so rapidly and is so fragmented in following, that perhaps it is slightly feasible that if one of them broke out and invested in big time football, they might be able to be invited to the Pac 10 someday. Their academics, especially UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara, UC San Diego, and UC Irvine are Pac 10 quality.

A hell of a lot of things would have to happen, but it is more possible than a D II team located in economically depressed Detroit with already established Michigan and Michigan State dominating the fan following. Especially since Wayne State doesn't have the academics to fit into the Big 10 or even on the level of those UC schools would for the Pac 10. Michigan is a slow growth state and more unified statewide in following. People in Wayne County follow U of M and MSU and Wayne State, despite having a Board of Governors voted statewide, is a commuter school. Many, and I mean many, skip voting for the Wayne State Board of Governors, especially if they don't live in Wayne County. Wayne State's purpose is a metropolitan research university serving metropolitan Detroit. People in Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Traverse City, Saginaw don't even pay attention to the university let alone sports and even let alone actually voting for the Board of Governors every 4 years. To even place them on a list of potential Big 10 schools in the future is a laughing matter, especially since they are not a AAU school nor play big time sports and have no following and there is declining population in both Detroit and Wayne County as a whole and no one cares about them outside of 8 mile road and I-275 in the state of Michigan, while U of M and MSU dominate statewide in every corner of the state. To have them on a list for the Big 10 is way beyond even a fantasy.


Last edited by metropolitan on Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:36 pm 
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Ugh! At least the ACC game had Delaware to pick from... ;)

If any of these were to amount to so much then surely the Sun Belt or MAC would take them in and that'd be that.

If the Big Ten ever lost PSU, they'd almost certainly camp out at ten for the rest of eternity.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Amen to 10 and eternity GunnerFan. The B-10 wins keeping additional revenue with one less mouth to feed and removal of scheduling headaches. The BE wins with a heavy hitter in Penn St. And ND realizes it now has no where to go with the B-10 closed. They improve and get back to 1A. The NBE takes them to get to 10 and all is well in BCS Land again no questions asked.



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:36 pm 
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Quote:
So.

I would bet that the engineering programs at Ohio U and Miami U of OH are better than NDSU. Perhaps Western Michigan does as well. SUNY Buffalo definately does.

Most MAC schools have a higher academic rep than NDSU. Miami, Ohio, BGSU, WMU, Ball State, SUNY Buffalo, and Northern Illinois all have higher academic rep than NDSU.


Based on what ridiculous subjective measure?

You would bet......you're definitely a character, metro.


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