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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:14 am 
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Let it be known that the Big Ten commissioner is a heck of a lot smarter than he looks. Delany has to know that there is some dissension within the ranks, but he is extremely good at suppressing it. And I think he has something up his sleeve about expansion, but he is keeping his mouth shut about it. If the Big Ten had planned on staying at 11 forever, I would think that they would have followed the respective paths of the Pac 10 (their partners) and the Big 12. But curiously, they (the Big Ten) have not went down that path. That, in and of itself, leads me to think that the Big Ten does have some expansion plans but is keeping very quiet about them. We all saw what happened when the ACC expanded and the legal fallout of it, and one has to wonder if Tom Delany and the Big Ten presidents fully anticipated and expected that outcome. So, here's my question for everyone out there, even Metropolitan too if he's reading this,
if you're the Big Ten commissioner and you want to expand, but keep very quiet about it, what type of a team would you be after and why? Who might the team be? Big time food for thought. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:31 am 
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Let it be known that the Big Ten commissioner is a heck of a lot smarter than he looks. Delany has to know that there is some dissension within the ranks, but he is extremely good at suppressing it. And I think he has something up his sleeve about expansion, but he is keeping his mouth shut about it. If the Big Ten had planned on staying at 11 forever, I would think that they would have followed the respective paths of the Pac 10 (their partners) and the Big 12. But curiously, they (the Big Ten) have not went down that path. That, in and of itself, leads me to think that the Big Ten does have some expansion plans but is keeping very quiet about them. We all saw what happened when the ACC expanded and the legal fallout of it, and one has to wonder if Tom Delany and the Big Ten presidents fully anticipated and expected that outcome. So, here's my question for everyone out there, even Metropolitan too if he's reading this,
if you're the Big Ten commissioner and you want to expand, but keep very quiet about it, what type of a team would you be after and why? Who might the team be? Big time food for thought. :D


Yes, and I would keep quiet about it. A team that would allow for an enhanced TV deal. My choice would be Missouri or Syracuse. As far as a Conference championship in football, I'd add that in a heartbeat and hold it at Michigan Stadium.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:56 am 
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Let it be known that the Big Ten commissioner is a heck of a lot smarter than he looks. Delany has to know that there is some dissension within the ranks, but he is extremely good at suppressing it. And I think he has something up his sleeve about expansion, but he is keeping his mouth shut about it. If the Big Ten had planned on staying at 11 forever, I would think that they would have followed the respective paths of the Pac 10 (their partners) and the Big 12. But curiously, they (the Big Ten) have not went down that path. That, in and of itself, leads me to think that the Big Ten does have some expansion plans but is keeping very quiet about them. We all saw what happened when the ACC expanded and the legal fallout of it, and one has to wonder if Tom Delany and the Big Ten presidents fully anticipated and expected that outcome. So, here's my question for everyone out there, even Metropolitan too if he's reading this,
if you're the Big Ten commissioner and you want to expand, but keep very quiet about it, what type of a team would you be after and why? Who might the team be? Big time food for thought. :D


Yes, and I would keep quiet about it. A team that would allow for an enhanced TV deal. My choice would be Missouri or Syracuse. As far as a Conference championship in football, I'd add that in a heartbeat and hold it at Michigan Stadium.


Notre Dame certainly tops the list still for Big Ten candidates. But after Notre Dame I had always put Missouir at the top of the list. That was pre-2003, with the Big East to ACC defections. The Big East reacted to those losses by adding schools like DePaul, Marquette, Cincy, and to an extent, Louisville...all school within the Big Ten footprint.

Looking at the Big Ten now and their options...I would have to say the Syracuse is looking like a fine option. If Rutgers were, well, better for a long period of time, they could be on the list. But if over the next few years Syracuse football returns to a higher level and basketball remains solid, Syracuse might just be a legit candidate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:21 am 
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I should have added this earlier, but better late than never. To keep away the press on possible Big Ten expansion, Delany has created a "smoke screen" of sorts, IMO, by saying that the Big Ten wants Notre Dame and only Notre Dame. This "smoke screen" has fooled many sports journalists, IMO. I may want to win the lottery bad, but at some point, I must be realistic about my options, and go for padding my future bonus at my job.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:30 am 
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Yes, and I would keep quiet about it. A team that would allow for an enhanced TV deal. My choice would be Missouri or Syracuse. As far as a Conference championship in football, I'd add that in a heartbeat and hold it at Michigan Stadium.


Notre Dame certainly tops the list still for Big Ten candidates. But after Notre Dame I had always put Missouri at the top of the list. That was pre-2003, with the Big East to ACC defections. The Big East reacted to those losses by adding schools like DePaul, Marquette, Cincy, and to an extent, Louisville...all school within the Big Ten footprint.

Looking at the Big Ten now and their options...I would have to say the Syracuse is looking like a fine option. If Rutgers were, well, better for a long period of time, they could be on the list. But if over the next few years Syracuse football returns to a higher level and basketball remains solid, Syracuse might just be a legit candidate.


Good discussion, D&D, Gopher, Quinn, etc.

Of course Missouri has the location and profile to fit in the Big 10. The question is: Would Missouri really want to leave the Big 12 for the Big 10? The speculation on Missouri being a viable Big 10 candidate if the Big 10 decided to expands, implies that the Big 10 is a superior conference. Agree, most may assume that, based on revenues, the mass of quality academic schools, longevity of existence, etc.

Would Missouri want to end or diminish its conference rivalry with Kansas (or with Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc. as well)? Would Missouri diminish their chances of bowls by leaving the Big 12-north? One question that would need to be asked by Missouri, if they pondered a Big 10 offer, is what kind of divisions would the Big 10 pursue?

On a related note, a lot of people want to see Arkansas in the Big 12. It makes sense to me. But the fundamental question, if circumstances changed in the Big 12, would Arkansas want to leave the SEC? We can dream-place schools in conferences that appear to make more sense, but individual institutions, alumni, etc. can be very traditional and stubborn about those sorts of things unless significant gains are promised and absolutely obvious.

SportsKC, I believe you said you are a Missouri graduate? What is view on this in and around Columbia, Mo.? Is Missouri happy where they are? Enough to turn down a Big 10 offer?


Last edited by sec03 on Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:46 am 
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Joe Paterno once said, and pardon me for paraphrasing something not before me, and is five year old information and could be conveyed not completely in correct fashion. Anyway, the point was when Notre Dame declined the 1999 Big 10 opening, Paterno noted other possibilities, and recommended other considerations without being too specific. Implicit, in this kind of statement is that a better choice other than Notre Dame is out there and may fit the objectives of the Big 10 (or maybe PSU) better. Later, the view emerged that Penn State preferred divisions and sought an "eastern" selection. There is a mixture of opinions on this, because some quarters imply Penn State would not want Pittsburgh as the choice, and market-wise, Pittsburgh would add little since their fan support is regional and already within the Big 10 footprint by virtue of Penn State. West Virginia? Outside of athletics, not the lofty profile the Big 10 seeks. Actually, Penn State may be thinking someone even more to the east (and/or north). Therefore, Quinn has solid points with the references and qualifications he presented about Syracuse and Rutgers.


Last edited by sec03 on Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:28 am 
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My vote for Big 10 expansion would be first Notre Dame and second would be West Virginia. WVU is a state supported land grant school and having Big 10 resources and access would excel in academics and potential academic grants. Ohio State and Penn State are natural rivals for sports as well.

The only problem is WVU fans want SEC membership.

If a third team merged it would be Rutgers.

Pitt and Syracuse are ACC type schools.



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:36 pm 
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Yes, and I would keep quiet about it. A team that would allow for an enhanced TV deal. My choice would be Missouri or Syracuse. As far as a Conference championship in football, I'd add that in a heartbeat and hold it at Michigan Stadium.


Notre Dame certainly tops the list still for Big Ten candidates. But after Notre Dame I had always put Missouir at the top of the list. That was pre-2003, with the Big East to ACC defections. The Big East reacted to those losses by adding schools like DePaul, Marquette, Cincy, and to an extent, Louisville...all school within the Big Ten footprint.

Looking at the Big Ten now and their options...I would have to say the Syracuse is looking like a fine option. If Rutgers were, well, better for a long period of time, they could be on the list. But if over the next few years Syracuse football returns to a higher level and basketball remains solid, Syracuse might just be a legit candidate.


I agree that in a dream world Notre Dame is on the top of the B-10 and everyone else's list. However ND is not going to join a conference until they loose their automatic BCS bid which they are not going to loose because the anchor 5 conferences are just as guilty of appeasing ND as the BE. They would also have to loose their TV contract which they will not loose because of their draw coast to coast.

SportsKC had some very good reasons in a post a while back as to why Missouri would not leave the B-12 with some of the liveries they have. The B-12 is also hauling in some pretty big bucks too and it is a conference that has grown money wise over the last 10 years since they grew from the B-8 with the Texas teams.

Rutgers tried to get into the B-10 but was rejected. They are there academically but need to grow their FB and BB programs alot more building on the success of last year for FB.

Even though Paterno says that he would welcome Pitt on the surface, I think he would black ball them in a closed vote. At the time of the vote for them in the BE, Pitt did not help them. They didn't help Paterno with the formation of his Eastern Conference either because they didn't like the revenue split back when they were a bowl regular. The head BB coach at Pitt at the time Roy Chipman? was rumored to be against Penn St too. Then there is the territorial thing with Penn St covering PA. and N.J. Olympic sport travel would be great with Pitt in the B-10 for Penn ST. and Ohio St. however the money making sports with territorial prospects for FB and BB would put the vote against them.

That leaves Cuse. Cuse and the AD at the time of Penn St. application to the BE Jake Cro. backed Penn St for admission. Cuse brings the FB history, a national championship, the BB history and a national championship, the academics, and the NY and part of the New England TV markets and athletic prospects for FB and BB that end up in the ACC and the BE. Cuse and Pitt are ACC type schools but both would fit in well with the B-10 too. Cuse was on the ACC list until the Virginia Governor pushed with some clout for VT. In reality I think they will be in the B-10 when ND shoots them down again in the next five years. Teams like Michigan are starting major stadium renovations that cost a lot of money. And the big bucks for B-10 stadium renovations can come fro the additional revenue that a lucrative championship and 12 teams would bring.

ND, then Cuse, then Missouri, then Pitt, and then Rutgers in that order for B1- expansion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:38 pm 
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Yes, and I would keep quiet about it. A team that would allow for an enhanced TV deal. My choice would be Missouri or Syracuse. As far as a Conference championship in football, I'd add that in a heartbeat and hold it at Michigan Stadium.


I prefer to have a rotating championship locality. B10 has a lot of large cities with pro stadiums that are suitable - Minneapolis, Chicago, Indy, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh.

The size of Michigan Stadium is a major plus, but I don't think the other schools would want to give the Wolverines a permanent homefield advantage (when they make it to the championship). Rotating cities also keeps fans interested and allows them to see other places.

...but perhaps the B10 should hold the championship in Orlando/Tampa/Miami. That would be a better December destination that Michigan or any other B10 locale.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:54 pm 
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My vote for Big 10 expansion would be first Notre Dame and second would be West Virginia. WVU is a state supported land grant school and having Big 10 resources and access would excel in academics and potential academic grants. Ohio State and Penn State are natural rivals for sports as well.

The only problem is WVU fans want SEC membership.

If a third team merged it would be Rutgers.

Pitt and Syracuse are ACC type schools.



Lash, I agree with you about WVU. That is a school that has made huge strides, both academically and with academic program development in recent decades. The coal miner-Commonwealth of Virginia break-off image is way too stereotypic.

WVU tried for the ACC years ago. The ACC still didn't want them when they raided the BE. Yet, their loyal fan support and enthusiasm rivals or exceeds several ACC schools. If the SEC was sitting at 11, and any viable options for a 12th was limited to the BE at the time, I am confident the SEC would have focused on WVU, talked to VPI, and ruled out Miami.

WVU is one of the best schools the Big East has going for them. They should keep them happy. But nooooo, too many are google-eyed over Notre Dame who won't offer the BE their football.

When the Big East was discussing with Notre Dame joining for bb, that was the time to have bargained and contractually forced committed them to at least 4 continuing, rotating games with BE members. They let them in with no contributions toward fb at all, so Notre Dame is in no obligation whatsoever to contribute to BE football.

I do wish the conference sustaining themselves with football and they have several fine all-sports institutions within their ranks. But i concur when people make the point, they have had a history of appeasing some at the expense of others, and missing looking at where and what they want to be ten, fifteen, or twenty years down the road. If cards had been played right in a timely manner, Penn State, BC, possibly even Maryland, or South Carolina (lingering awhile as an independent) could have been brought together. Miami could have stayed. Possibly even Notre Dame could have been prodded by a more awesome group.

Factors such as adding DePaul and Marquette, while great bb histories, compounded issues, and are not resolutions for the fb side of things.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:18 pm 
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Rumors at one time had Nebraska and Iowa State as potential Big 10 considerations in addition to Missouri.

There was a lot of talk, dated though, about Nebraska being dissatisfied with the B12, mainly over disputes with Texas and having a divisional situation. Maybe, amends have been made somewhat.

Iowa State would be a safe western-directed addition, but certainly isn't a big market expansion.

Again, is any of the Big12 north members open to any unanticipated offer from the Big 10?

Getting beyond a year-ending Ohio State-Michigan feature, despite what Delaney has publicly presented, is there a desire in the B10 to go for a championship game? Divisional play in the Big 10 may not be a bad idea, already it is a huge territory.

If Notre Dame, would a Penn State-Notre Dame (replacing MSU) game at regular seasons' end, be the ticket to rival the Ohio State-Michigan one? Could see the winners in a championship game. OK Wisconsin and Iowa fans :), just playful speculation.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:19 pm 
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Big Ten is a touchy subject in Mizzou land. Alot of alums are ticked off at how the Big 12 is ran, they think the Texas schools have too much control. Also alot are not a big fan of the Big 12 tv package, here in KC I can normally see every single Big Ten game expect the ABC one during the Big 12 time slot.

TV and improve the academic standards are the big reasons that Mizzou would consider. Sports wise, not sure. KU rivarly beside - Mizzou has good rivals with Nebraska, Oklahoma, K-State, and Iowa State. Could Illinois and Iowa replace though? Tough call. Also baseball would take a hit.

Now back to the Big Ten - Notre Dame thing, the divisions could be key. If they were smart - the western schools could be an easy ticket for them to get to the Big Ten championship game each year. Or they could force their hand at having a shot at Michigan, MSU, Purdue, etc.

Here is what I think for divisions if ND joins:
Western
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Wisconsin

Eastern
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue

or this:
Western
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Wisconsin

Eastern
Michigan
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue

Then do the SEC thing so Indiana/Purdue can play each:
Indiana/Purdue
Illinois/Michigan
Iowa/Ohio State
Northwestern/Notre Dame
Minnesota/Michigan State
Wisconsin/Penn State

Alot of tough decisions I would think, but the last propsal of mine would be a tv boom for the Big Ten. Though a national championship could be lost really easy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:00 pm 
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If Missouri or Nebraska joins, you do get a cleaner East-West split:

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Iowa
Missouri (Nebraska)
Illinois
Northwestern

Eastern:
Indiana
Purdue
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State

If you add Missouri, you could host your conference championship in St. Louis for the years with a "Western" site. Missouri and Illinois already play basketball there, so obviously it works for them. If you insist on a dome, hold it in Indy or Detroit when it's the East Division's turn to host.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:30 am 
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The B10 is an eleven member all AAU university grouping.The only school not in the AAU that would be considered is ND.However,ND is unlikely to give up their independence and wealth for B10 membership.The other candidates are Iowa State and Missouri from the B12.From the BE the viable candidates are Pitt and Rutgers.Syracuse a private school even though an AAU school is not the level academically(research component of the B10 is a key ingredient of B10 membership) of the B10 schools.Thus you have Pitt which clearly is not welcomed by psu or the western B10 schools.And of course there is Rutgers which is athletically weak.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:06 pm 
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Three (PSU, OSU, & WVU) of the four BCS champions last year, each were within approximately three hours of Pittsburgh. Maybe a more eastern selection has merit if the Big 10 sought to add another.


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