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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:12 pm 
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First, you are going to have to find a way to get rid of the lower tier teams. Every conference has them and with ~72 teams there just isn't room for them. This will cost money.

Second, you are going to have to find a way to get rid of some of the middle tier teams. There isn't room for them and in a "NFL Jr." scenario there is little room for duplication. More money.

Third, you are going to need a way to comply with Title IX. With the amount of money involved there will be more scrutiny. More money.

Fourth, you are going to have to find a way to address Olympic sports. I can't imagine the NCAA or one of the remaining confernces wanting anything to do with a school with semi-pro teams.

I don't think realignment will be an issue. There will be no B12 or ACC just one league with regional divisions.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:58 am 
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As a former Collegiate Lacrosse Coach and current National team coach, I feel qualified to clarify the Johns Hopkins ACC/Big 10 Lacrosse issue for some of you who are confused.

In order to get an automatic bid to the NCAA championships for Lacrosse, a conference has to have 6 teams.

The Big-10 was at 5 (Penn State, Ohio State, Rutgers, Maryland and New start-up team Michigan - which so far has one win in their first 2 seasons combined). Of those, only Maryland is a team that can (usually) expect year in and year out to make the tournament, invite or no... Ohio State has had decent years, but these really are all weak lacrosse programs. Prior to this, the Big-10 was not even a lacrosse conference, because the schools needed to band together with others for a shot at an AQ (and did so with other "western" schools like Air Force and Notre Dame). Notre Dame almost always took the AQ.

The ACC had been at 4 (UNC, Duke, Virginia and Maryland), and never needed an AQ as all 4 teams pretty much got in every year. When the ACC lost Maryland and gained Syracuse and Notre Dame, nothing changed for them as Syracuse is a perennial powerhouse and national title contender. Those five teams do not need an AQ, although Notre Dame might miss it.

Add to this that the addition of new conferences has lately shrunk the pool of non-AQ 'slots'. Unless you are a powerhouse like the ACC teams, your chances just shrunk (enter into the picture the concerns of independent Johns Hopkins).

The Big-10 needed to cover their proverbial asses by adding a 6th team, and the competition that JHU brings is quality. JHU, while very good, usually makes the cut without an AQ, but having that safety net is sure nice. Expect JHU or Maryland to win the AQ in their traditional rivalry game, which just got more valuable. (even so, other teams in the new Big-10 conference can have a pipe dream; can benefit from an improved schedule; and can use Maryland and JHU as tools to help recruit kids to their respective B10 schools. JHU would not likely play most of these teams unless they were conference-bound to, it does NOT improve their schedule. It DOES improve their shot at a ticket to the dance.

One final argument is that while the ACC had 4 (and has 5) teams in the conference, adding a 6th team does not help them get to the dance.
Adding a team to the schedule would have hurt those teams' latitude to schedule a stronger slate. JHU saw it differently, because they play most of these teams anyway, and thought it was a natural fit. JHU would also much rather have the ACC schools on their schedule than the Big 10 schools.

By the bye -- if another Big-10 school ever added lacrosse (not likely, but if it did happen), you could expect the Big 10 to unceremoniously big JHU a fond farewell.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Hamburger wrote:
One final argument is that while the ACC had 4 (and has 5) teams in the conference, adding a 6th team does not help them get to the dance.
Adding a team to the schedule would have hurt those teams' latitude to schedule a stronger slate. JHU saw it differently, because they play most of these teams anyway, and thought it was a natural fit. JHU would also much rather have the ACC schools on their schedule than the Big 10 schools.

By the bye -- if another Big-10 school ever added lacrosse (not likely, but if it did happen), you could expect the Big 10 to unceremoniously big JHU a fond farewell.


I don't know who made the argument that the ACC needed 6 for the tournament. It's that TV would demand the AQ. It makes for content. Not that I disagree with what you say, because that collective of schools is already among the strongest in all of D1 lax, but even at five, for a collegiate sport that doesn't get much tv play, it's kind of hard for the ACC to televise its non-AQ games speculating which programs would likely get their tournament bids. That's something the Big Ten can and will do with its conference. There is AQ there. They can confidently say the games can actually lead to something.

But I do disagree that the Big Ten would "kick out" JHU were someone like Minnesota or Northwestern to go D1. You said it yourself in a way...it's UMD and a bunch of scrubs. And, academically, it's not the kind of action you want to take. If the CIC is to be taken seriously (which I don't think it is), you don't boot out the king of research dollars for the sake of one your lesser statey's. I think, if another Big Ten school does sponsor lax, JHU leaves the Big Ten behind. Whether they go back to independence or go where they should have gone (Patriot), who knows.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Louisville just reached a settlement on an $11 million exit fee to the AAC, facilitating their departure to the ACC.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... -agreement


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:58 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
Louisville just reached a settlement on an $11 million exit fee to the AAC, facilitating their departure to the ACC.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... -agreement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Appreciate this being shared. I expect Rutgers fee may not be much different in the end, but could involve more legal costs. The suit was sent to RI, probably for arbitration. In addition to the 10 million exit fee the AAC seeks; it's the 27 month waiting period that is contested. But the AAC/BE let others go early, but really has little going to hold back Rutgers in being set to leave; so the major compromise shall be about the final sum inclusive of the factor of what revenue the AAC is holding from Rutgers.

The final Maryland terms in leaving the ACC is going to be monumental. Comments from a school official set off some distress about meeting the timeline as litigation advances. Louisville being officially cleared is actually a good step for Maryland who is already being incorporated into B1G schedules for next year.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:09 am 
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I thought Pitt was going to pay more than Syracuse for their departures, simply because Syracuse had been making the process more transparent for everyone. Pitt wasn't to that extent.

One would think Louisville would pay less than Rutgers because Louisville made their intentions known at least a year prior when they and WVU were going after the Big XII. The way Navy characterized what Rutgers was saying, but not actually doing, it sounds like Rutgers would be on the hook for more than $11m.

...but, I think it's probably going to be just that $11m mark.

UConn better not pocket any of it if they want to go to any of these conferences.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:57 am 
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UConn isn't going anywhere.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:27 pm 
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westwolf wrote:
UConn isn't going anywhere.


I would agree IF AND ONLY IF: they don't get AAU status AND the ACC and B1G don't decide to expand beyond 14.

If the ACC expands beyond 14, I see them strongly considering attempting to get Notre Dame to join for football and consider Cincinnati, Connecticut, Temple, Memphis, and Massachusetts. I would say Cincinnati and Connecticut would be the better of those 5 options.

If the B1G expands beyond 14, I see them considering a couple XII schools, ACC schools, and possibly Connecticut if they get AAU status.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:01 pm 
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westwolf wrote:
UConn isn't going anywhere.


Yep. Allegedly, the B12 asked them (among others such as Cincy) earlier for data. But that seems meaningless unless the B12 wants to build a NE branch/footprint. The B12 is basically resistent to expanding unless something real profound drops in their lap; so for them to venture to build in a new, distant area doesn't seem plausible at all. WVU was a favored (best available idea) addition to fill a spot rather than a stepping stone for others to the B12.

Looking at the UNC Emails and related information, Cincinnati seemed very assertive in making their case to the ACC. UConn may have known they were not first, or maybe even second, on the ACC's expansion list when UMd declared they are leaving. Burnt bridges have not been all mended; and the ACC, beyond their own pettiness, took on more earlier from the old BE. Also, fb oriented schools in the ACC such as FSU, GT, & Clemson, were more attracted to what Louisville offered. Having more dynamic fb games, even if not conference fb, was part of the rationale to for the ND deal.

Getting that GoR in the ACC saved the ACC for awhile. Had the B1G tried for uncontiguous FSU (whom some in the B1G may not have wanted), & GT (possibly), with or immediately after Maryland first, and propelled the SEC to really act (B1G wanted cooperation instead), the ACC would not be what it is now. Beyond Maryland, the B1G 'allegedly' next sought the heart of the ACC (UVA, UNC) which proved to be 'a bridge too far' at the time.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:04 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
westwolf wrote:
UConn isn't going anywhere.


I would agree IF AND ONLY IF: they don't get AAU status AND the ACC and B1G don't decide to expand beyond 14.

If the ACC expands beyond 14, I see them strongly considering attempting to get Notre Dame to join for football and consider Cincinnati, Connecticut, Temple, Memphis, and Massachusetts. I would say Cincinnati and Connecticut would be the better of those 5 options.

If the B1G expands beyond 14, I see them considering a couple XII schools, ACC schools, and possibly Connecticut if they get AAU status.


I think UConn's basketball legacy pushes them to do something. Maybe they approach the AAC and work something out with the Big East where they park football there and move basketball holdings into their old haunts. I truly believe the bridge between UConn and schools like Georgetown and Villanova aren't fully burnt, and that there is a potential relationship there to salvage. The AAC, while decent in hoops with Memphis, Cincy, and Temple, is simply too spotty and potentially damaging to the men's and, especially, women's hoops programs. Who knows, maybe it involves the MAC or A10. I don't know...but I can't imagine UConn, and Temple, being all that happy for very long.

But moving to the ACC? Not unless BC leaves. Not before UConn pays up for what they collected from SU, Pitt, and UL. Not without some other potentially demeaning gesture for the '03 lawsuit. Heck no.

The Big Ten is a very slim and remote possibility, which, I think, hinges on UConn addressing men's lax, improving their ice hockey program, figuring out the situation with their long-distance "OCS," the Rutgers/C7 exit money situation, and a ton of marketing. I don't think AAU keeps them out of the Big Ten. UConn's athletic department is sizable and well situated. UConn's problems are its size, its still almost-infant football program, and its prior bad acts.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Uconn at 27,500 students is too small? Hockey has bee upgraded and is moving to Hockey east next year. Football has been played since 1895, state has no major league pro sports to compete with. Uconn may not be a perfect match for the B1G, but matchups between MSU vs Uconn or Indiana Vs Uconn, would be phenominal! (Basketball)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:41 pm 
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wolfman61 wrote:
Uconn at 27,500 students is too small? Hockey has bee upgraded and is moving to Hockey east next year. Football has been played since 1895, state has no major league pro sports to compete with. Uconn may not be a perfect match for the B1G, but matchups between MSU vs Uconn or Indiana Vs Uconn, would be phenominal! (Basketball)


Storrs is definitely not 27.5K strong. More like 20-22K, with the other 6-8K spread across the other campuses and med school. UConn, the system, may be larger than UNL. Storrs, the campus that actually gets the Big Ten distinction, would be the smallest public member of the Big Ten.

UConn really does fit into the ACC. Size, athletics (basketball), academics, location...if they followed the same trajectory as Rutgers (meaning, stop scheduling small schools and start rubbing elbows with Syracuse, Penn State, Temple, BC, Army, and Navy in the 80's), maybe it's them, and not BC, who got the look from the ACC. Or, at the very least, not sue departing Big East schools and the ACC out of "feeling duped."

UConn's made enemies. I think it's made even more than just those in the ACC. And Maryland, by extension. Or Rutgers, if UConn pockets a dime of that exit money. UConn voted against Penn State's Big East application back in the 80's. I've read in a couple of forums where UConn fans admitted PSU may not be their biggest supporter for inclusion STILL because of that.

When you consider UConn would likely park itself into that eastern part of the Big Ten for football (regardless of solid basketball inventory with MSU, IU, Illinois, Purdue, and Michigan), you have to convince UMD, RU, and PSU to be totally fine with UConn being around them. I don't see that happening without a lot of humble pie. Not as much as they'd have to account for in the ACC, and probably surmountable, but still an uphill battle.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:41 pm 
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I can believe that these University administrators can and do occasionally act on spite.
Sometimes these things get personal.
The Pitt-Penn Sate thing (for instance) got wings due to a lot of persoanl animostiy between Paterno and Jackie Sherill back in the late 70s / early 80s.

But over the course of decades, when the various personalities have moved on or retired, continuing hte hatred seems ridiculous.

It just adversly affects some kids who were completely removed frm the situation when the feud started.

I think with UConn and the incidents back in 2003 / 2004, the principals were Jim Calhoun and the college president.
I believe neither is still there, although the shadow of Calhoun still looms, even though I THINK he is now retired from his various positions....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Unity, collegiality, and common vision is at the core of these athletic conferences. It's supposed to be a grouping of schools with many things in common. Where that hurts UConn is that they "did wrong by" so many of these schools to whom they now want to associate.

I agree that some of these things are on certain people and not necessarily the schools themselves. But UConn's body count...it's just obscene. To continue from the previous post, even going beyond pocketing Big East school exit money, there's who they voted against when the football component sought refuge for other its other programs. UConn voted down Rutgers', VT's, and WVU's initial bids for full Big East membership. VT, especially, had to buy its way into that conference. There's the legacy of bad blood with UMass. They weren't the biggest fans of Temple (or, rather, they stood with Villanova's resistance of them). Heck, before they fielded FBS football, they were in lockstep with the basketball schools in general, slow to respond to schools like Louisville and Cincinnati.

I mean, I don't know...but I don't know who UConn DOES play well with. Who really does have their back and actually wants them? When it's flushed out, maybe westwolf's earlier statement nails it. They don't go anywhere because they have deep pockets of resistance in all of the places where they could go. When you can't play nice with others...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:13 pm 
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So, they were pricks to some schools in the past....

I can see Boston College and Va Tech still bearing a grudge.
Louisville, too, if UConn fought their entry in 2003.
Maybe that's enough to keep them out for now.

I'm not sure anyone really holds it against them that they cashed the checks for exit fees.
That's all per a contract, and that's "just business".
When you leave a conf. that has exit fees, you have to expect to be held to the fee.

When you review the settlements paid by Pitt, 'Cuse, WVU, Louisville (just announced), it looks like they have had to cough up the full amount....
$10+ mill for leaving within a year (WVU and Louisville), Pitt and Syracuse faced a $5 million + 27 month deal and left after 15 months for $7.5 million.

If the ACC invites UConn at some point in the future, Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, (Notre Dame ?) and the other ACC schools
can whack UConn with an entrance fee, or defer UConn's sharing in conference TV revenues for a few years,
thereby recoupingat least UConn's share of those fees paid to the Big East over the years.


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