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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:53 pm 
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If we are going to split the ACC into North and South for football divisions I think its a little unfair to ask one of the four NC schools to be separated from their rivals. The best thing to do IMHO is to put Louisville in the South and two NC schools in the North. When you consider how brutal the South Division would be with Florida St, Miami, GT, Clemson, and Louisville I think the fairest way to try to create some balance with the North is to put the two state schools UNC and NC State in the North since they have more money and resources and UVA won't want to be separated from UNC. UNC and Duke and Wake and NC State can maintain permanent crossover series like the Big Ten did for Indiana and Purdue.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:59 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
If we are going to split the ACC into North and South for football divisions I think its a little unfair to ask one of the four NC schools to be separated from their rivals. The best thing to do IMHO is to put Louisville in the South and two NC schools in the North. When you consider how brutal the South Division would be with Florida St, Miami, GT, Clemson, and Louisville I think the fairest way to try to create some balance with the North is to put the two state schools UNC and NC State in the North since they have more money and resources and UVA won't want to be separated from UNC. UNC and Duke and Wake and NC State can maintain permanent crossover series like the Big Ten did for Indiana and Purdue.


North - Miami, VPI, Lville, Pitt, Cuse, BC + UConn (full member) & Cincy (fbonly)/ND (nonfb)
South - FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, NCSU, Wake, Duke, UVA

Permanent Rivals: FSU/Miami & UVA/VPI

Cincy joins the MAC in non/fb and offsets UMass fb so they can add JMU for a 14/14 split.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:41 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
If we are going to split the ACC into North and South for football divisions I think its a little unfair to ask one of the four NC schools to be separated from their rivals. The best thing to do IMHO is to put Louisville in the South and two NC schools in the North. When you consider how brutal the South Division would be with Florida St, Miami, GT, Clemson, and Louisville I think the fairest way to try to create some balance with the North is to put the two state schools UNC and NC State in the North since they have more money and resources and UVA won't want to be separated from UNC. UNC and Duke and Wake and NC State can maintain permanent crossover series like the Big Ten did for Indiana and Purdue.


North - Miami, VPI, Lville, Pitt, Cuse, BC + UConn (full member) & Cincy (fbonly)/ND (nonfb)
South - FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, NCSU, Wake, Duke, UVA

Permanent Rivals: FSU/Miami & UVA/VPI

Cincy joins the MAC in non/fb and offsets UMass fb so they can add JMU for a 14/14 split.


What if divisions were just split along rivalries? (likelihood: extremely low)

ACC
Atlantic: Miami FL, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia, Syracuse, Clemson, Louisville, Boston College
Coastal: Florida St, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, Cincinnati, Connecticut

PAC
Pacific: Washington, Oregon St, Stanford, Utah, USC, Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma
Western: Washington St, Oregon, California, Colorado, UCLA, Arizona St, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St

B1G
Great Lakes: Michigan, Michigan St, Northwestern, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa, Rutgers, Iowa St (a stretch for 16)
Northern: Ohio St, Penn St, Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota, Nebraska, Maryland, Kansas

SEC
Gulf: Alabama, Tennessee, Florida, Mississippi St, Kentucky, Baylor (a stretch for 16), Missouri, Kentucky
Southern: Auburn, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Kansas St(a stretch for 16), Arkansas


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:28 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
If we are going to split the ACC into North and South for football divisions I think its a little unfair to ask one of the four NC schools to be separated from their rivals. The best thing to do IMHO is to put Louisville in the South and two NC schools in the North. When you consider how brutal the South Division would be with Florida St, Miami, GT, Clemson, and Louisville I think the fairest way to try to create some balance with the North is to put the two state schools UNC and NC State in the North since they have more money and resources and UVA won't want to be separated from UNC. UNC and Duke and Wake and NC State can maintain permanent crossover series like the Big Ten did for Indiana and Purdue.


Within the conference, that's a good point about fairness. But there has been the old argument about conference schools outside the State of NC having to play 4 schools regularly from NC. I expect a few are basically OK with it given the circumstances, while others prefer more diversity in terms of locales. There's also conference schools that draw better attendance than all the NC schools. One of the reasons the ACC expanded in 2003 was to broaden the venues. Finally busting that NC4 grouping could help the ACC overall.

With the flip side, one of the NC4 needs to be in another major conference. This would dissolve some internal concentration that has historically been TOO tight. The one that may need to land elsewhere (the SEC): NC State.
This thought, of course, differs from the prior UNC-Duke speculation regarding B1G and/or SEC expansion the period before the ACC enacted their GoR.

A NC State to the SEC move could be mutually beneficial. NC State often gets less focus compared to the NC-Duke tango. Among the NC4, it has been some interests, at times, only associated with NC State that have voiced a level of discontent about the bond and whom most benefits from it and whom it restrains in certain aspects. The problem, even without the GoR, NC State is under the governance of the University of North Carolina State System. It would be very difficult for NC State to pull a 'Texas A&M' style departure to assert its own independent direction and a new lucrative path.

The SEC wants a major NC school. The ACC may need to let the right one go. As to #16 for the SEC in such as case, perhaps they could agree to look elsewhere (outside the ACC).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:19 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
The SEC wants a major NC school. The ACC may need to let the right one go. As to #16 for the SEC in such as case, perhaps they could agree to look elsewhere (outside the ACC).


I think its pretty clear the SEC wants a school from the State of North Carolina. UNC is the clear prize for any conference looking to dip into that State. I would rank the NC4 as: 1) UNC, 2) NC State, tie-3) Duke & Wake Forest. If NC State did find its home in the SEC and the SEC agreed to look elsewhere for #16, the only other place they would look would be the XII. They would probably consider Texas, Oklahoma, or Oklahoma St. I'd say Oklahoma St to the SEC. Here's why: Oklahoma St is solid in football and basketball, they add to the footprint, and they help bridge the SEC through the Dallas market by way of Texas A&M to Oklahoma St. If this occurred, I could see the PAC adding 4 to make it to 16 (Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas St), the B1G adding Kansas and some ACC school to get to 16, and the ACC adding West Virginia to replace the loss of NC State and Cincinnati to replace the loss of the school added to the B1G + adding Connecticut and another school like Memphis to get to 16.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:05 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
sec03 wrote:
The SEC wants a major NC school. The ACC may need to let the right one go. As to #16 for the SEC in such as case, perhaps they could agree to look elsewhere (outside the ACC).


I think its pretty clear the SEC wants a school from the State of North Carolina. UNC is the clear prize for any conference looking to dip into that State. I would rank the NC4 as: 1) UNC, 2) NC State, tie-3) Duke & Wake Forest. If NC State did find its home in the SEC and the SEC agreed to look elsewhere for #16, the only other place they would look would be the XII. They would probably consider Texas, Oklahoma, or Oklahoma St. I'd say Oklahoma St to the SEC. Here's why: Oklahoma St is solid in football and basketball, they add to the footprint, and they help bridge the SEC through the Dallas market by way of Texas A&M to Oklahoma St. If this occurred, I could see the PAC adding 4 to make it to 16 (Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas St), the B1G adding Kansas and some ACC school to get to 16, and the ACC adding West Virginia to replace the loss of NC State and Cincinnati to replace the loss of the school added to the B1G + adding Connecticut and another school like Memphis to get to 16.


A scenario similar to this could happen, and the logic is followed, though Memphis would be farfetched unless the ACC became a shell of its former self.

The ACC's plan is not to lose anybody and eventually have Notre Dame commit to all-sports before adding a 16th. Of course, in these situations, matters frequently do not go as planned, particularly when expectations about Notre Dame are involved. They just will not learn, and more than one conference has hung unto empty expectations.

The question will be: Can the ACC garner and then maintain a narrow enough revenue disparity to deter any current member(s) from leaving the conference in the not-so-distant future? The G0R is intended to be discouraging and punitive, which doesn't accent the positive. How future conditions may change all this is not real clear; but big-time enticements pertaining to the powers that deliver revenue disbursements and telecasting are not going away.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:59 am 
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Blog article out of Hampton Roads(previously posted in another thread) with comments from Duke AD comparing the Big Ten to McDonalds and the SEC to Burger King.If so,what does that make the ACC,Big 12 and PAC 12? Link at http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-b ... 85903.post" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Also,link to blog article discussing ACC FB tiebreaker situation at http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-b ... 81107.post


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:22 pm 
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PAC 12 is Carl's Jr.
ACC is Hardee's
Big 12 is Whataburger


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Duke AD has no thought power in thinking NYC is the home for the ACC bb.

NYC is not interested in teams from Ga,SC,Fla Kentucky,Mass etc


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:05 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Blog article out of Hampton Roads(previously posted in another thread) with comments from Duke AD comparing the Big Ten to McDonalds and the SEC to Burger King.If so,what does that make the ACC,Big 12 and PAC 12? Link at http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-b ... 85903.post" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


From the article, it sounds like he meant McDonald's in a good sense. I think the B1G would more like to be called someone a little more classier than a fast food restaurant that serves "chicken." Something classier, like hotels, would've probably been more appropriate, especially if Duke wants to see the light of day in another major conference IF the ACC ship ends up sinking!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:16 pm 
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"Unabashedly bullish" K. White is the former ND AD. He's coped with discord such as 0-3 fb starts at ND in 2001 & 2007. Among the challenges of his ND time-period, contract extensions were provided to B. Davies, & C. Weis. He hired T. Willingham & G. O'Leary (that ended after several days). So he's use to pressure and controversy and well as delivering optimistic comments; but is his optimism over-stated about an ACC network?

So the SEC is, perhaps condescendingly, Burger King, and now the ACC has approached that status (again)? But, White appears to exclaim the ACC shall not stop there, with NYC becoming the ACC's domain, all directed from beloved Greensboro? That's an amazing feat to come given that the ACC does not have one school in NYC or its immediate metro area.

Comments that imply the ACC-oriented network being negotiated by their team of reprentatives to start around 2016, is going to be a huge financial success at the get-go, begs for caution. Following the B1G's BTN initiative and revenue gains, and the SEC's new deal with ESPN, the ACC is banking on similar outcomes. If it's ESPN w/ACC, the company is not going to get too risky beyond what may be assured market value. Furthermore, the cable industry is moving steadily in the direction of a form of online selectivity and "choice" that may diminish the 'packaged' options/requirements that have been common. Those already established with it such as the BTN can transition accordingly; but new adapting may be in order for the near future as new mechanisms and technology are enacted. People want to gravitate away from being required to purchase channels they rarely or never watch.

Certainly Duke currently leading the ACC's Coastal Division in fb at the moment is commendable. However, the ACC may want to keep much of their bluster in-check until sought results are actually achieved and sustained for an appreciable period.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:14 am 
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Wishing I had both the time and patience to go through the ACC GoR, is there a percentage/number of teams that must leave at the same time to dissolve the GoR? (same for XII)

I thought I heard the XII GoR was over 50% (6/10 teams). That wouldn't be too difficult because it seems Texas/Texas Tech/Oklahoma/Oklahoma St would head west and Kansas would head north while West Virginia would probably end up in either the ACC or SEC. Iowa St, Baylor, Texas Christian, and Kansas St would be hoping a major conference threw them a bone.

If that percentage were the same for the ACC, the ACC would need at least 8 members to jump ship. The easiest 8 leaving in my opinion would be: Louisville (XII), Virginia (B1G), Virginia Tech (SEC), Syracuse (B1G), Pittsburgh (XII), Clemson (XII), Georgia Tech (XII), and Florida St (XII). After that it gets hazy-ish for me. Miami FL would be a good add for the XII. North Carolina would probably go either B1G or SEC. North Carolina St could only find a home in the SEC. Duke would pray for a B1G invite. Wake Forest would be in the American. Boston College could end up B1G but may end up in the American. Notre Dame would try to join a conference without football, but would be denied by the B1G and SEC. The American would take them in a heartbeat, but Notre Dame would only be interested in the XII who would probably take them even without football.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:18 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
Wishing I had both the time and patience to go through the ACC GoR, is there a percentage/number of teams that must leave at the same time to dissolve the GoR? (same for XII)

I thought I heard the XII GoR was over 50% (6/10 teams). That wouldn't be too difficult because it seems Texas/Texas Tech/Oklahoma/Oklahoma St would head west and Kansas would head north while West Virginia would probably end up in either the ACC or SEC. Iowa St, Baylor, Texas Christian, and Kansas St would be hoping a major conference threw them a bone.

If that percentage were the same for the ACC, the ACC would need at least 8 members to jump ship. The easiest 8 leaving in my opinion would be: Louisville (XII), Virginia (B1G), Virginia Tech (SEC), Syracuse (B1G), Pittsburgh (XII), Clemson (XII), Georgia Tech (XII), and Florida St (XII). After that it gets hazy-ish for me. Miami FL would be a good add for the XII. North Carolina would probably go either B1G or SEC. North Carolina St could only find a home in the SEC. Duke would pray for a B1G invite. Wake Forest would be in the American. Boston College could end up B1G but may end up in the American. Notre Dame would try to join a conference without football, but would be denied by the B1G and SEC. The American would take them in a heartbeat, but Notre Dame would only be interested in the XII who would probably take them even without football.

I don't know about the ACC, but the Big 12 GOR can only be broken prior to 2025 if the conference is dissolved (though I do think it could be challenged in court, read the Big 12 thread where I wrote a pretty extensive piece on it if you want to know more) so you need to look at the Big 12 bi-laws to see how to dissolve the conference which took a 75% vote so 8 of 10 or 9 of 12 if they expand.

So Texas, Tech, Oklahoma, Okie State, Kansas, K State, West Virginia, and another of ISU, TCU, or BU with a landing spot would need to agree to dissolve which is unlikely.

However if they expanded with ACC targets Cincy and UConn they could get 9 of 12 assuming the PAC12 goes to 18 and takes the Texhoma 4 and the 2 Kansas schools and the ACC agrees to also go to 18ish (ND) and take West Virginia, Cincy, and UConn.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:06 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
However if they expanded with ACC targets Cincy and UConn they could get 9 of 12 assuming the PAC12 goes to 18 and takes the Texhoma 4 and the 2 Kansas schools and the ACC agrees to also go to 18ish (ND) and take West Virginia, Cincy, and UConn.


While it would be a brilliant move if all of this was pre-planned with the ACC, PAC, Kantexoma-6, WVU, Cincy, and UConn, I would smell all kinds of anti-trust lawsuits by Baylor, TCU, and Iowa St. We all know how trigger-happy and litigious Baylor is! Talk about the screw-over of the decade. The lawsuits would probably settle with lots of $$$ to the 3 leftover schools as it would be ridiculous to keep a conference together if teams don't want to be together. Cincy and UConn would both have to have some sort of secret contract with the ACC that expanding into the XII was temporary only so the XII could disband according to their GoR. WVU would be thanking their lucky stars. The PAC would probably be the least worried entity about a lawsuit since nothing directly shady (Cincy/UConn) was touching them because for all they knew, the XII expanding then immediately disbanded for any number of reasons. Anyways, I think that is a strong possibility especially if the LHN crumbles and dies like Southern Miss dreams of joining the American any time soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:39 pm 
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So the ACC agrees to take mid-tier West Virginia so the PAC can take all the top tier teams? Even if WV and the ACC got over their feud there is zero incentive for the ACC to do this.


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