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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:01 pm 
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http://frankthetank.me/2014/01/15/lawye ... n-schools/

Frank the tank's slant on Maryland lawsuit, ACC poaching Big Ten, and ESPN.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:09 pm 
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AJC blog article(previously posted in another thread)with comments from Georgia Tech AD regarding possible future FB scheduling impact if the ACC starts it's own tv network at http://georgiatech.blog.ajc.com/2014/01 ... e-schedule


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:11 am 
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It's kind of obnoxious for Syracuse to campaign for a nine-game slate when those other programs, like FSU, Clemson, and GT...who, not surprisingly, are the "legacy" ACC football programs of the "common era," are put in a bind.

But, again...this is what the ACC claimed it wanted to do when it went after these schools and then wanted to keep them all, too. Good luck with that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:06 pm 
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Absolutely! Georgia Tech, for example, does not have much flexibility. And if this is not done amiably, GT could jepordize the UGA game at some point. That could be bad news for GT who has lost some of that 'bigger time' feeling over a number of years.
GT has complained before, on another scheduling issue, whereby the ACC office was favoring UNC, for example, while from GT's perspective, they were getting a shorter end of a stick.

Syracuse was also yapping about the FSU-Miami game may need to be rotated.
Certain schools in the ACC tend to resort to the media to convey certain grievances or to garner support for a point of view. This suggests this conference continues to have some underlining issues that appear not to get resolved discretely among themselves.
Adding Notre Dame for rotating five games was suppose to be part of a scheduling enhancement for the conference, not another complicating factor.

The ACC, which already had some of their schools on edge about priorities, favoritism, and scheduling, brought aboard a host of old BE schools that retained some old BE baggage, biases, and goals.

Maryland leaving and the GoR are not going to end the conflict.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:17 pm 
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More awkwardness created by this Notre Dame situation.
Also, note from the article that ESPN (not just Syracuse) may be the ones pushing the 9-intra-ACC schedule.

I should think most members would prefer:
1) to have Notre Dame "all in", and add a 16th team, play 9 games (7 division opponents and 2 from other division).
2) Have Notre Dame convert their 5 ACC games to 5 OOC games (which they really are) vs. those teams that really want to play Notre Dame,
and not those who have a "full slate" of tough games.

Another possibility.....
There was some mention of an inter-divisional rivalry game.
That is primarily caused by this ridiculous "zipper alignment".
FSU has returned to being a top 10 powerhouse (although once jameis is gone, that may recede a bit).
Miami is really so-so.... The zipper was created by the "NEED" to split those 2 up....
And then this created a need for the rivalry game.

Re-align, and eliminate any need for the rivalry:

North: BC, (UCONN*), Syracuse, Pitt, ND, Louisville, Va, VaTech
South: UNC, NCst., Wake, Duke, Clemson, GaTech, FSU, Miami

Yeah, some years the south may have more "good" teams,
but certainly Louisville and VaTech have been the top 2 teams over the course of the last 10-15 years.
of course, this would require Notre dame to cooperate, so forget it....







and


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:23 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
More awkwardness created by this Notre Dame situation.
Also, note from the article that ESPN (not just Syracuse) may be the ones pushing the 9-intra-ACC schedule.

I should think most members would prefer:
1) to have Notre Dame "all in", and add a 16th team, play 9 games (7 division opponents and 2 from other division).
2) Have Notre Dame convert their 5 ACC games to 5 OOC games (which they really are) vs. those teams that really want to play Notre Dame,
and not those who have a "full slate" of tough games.

Another possibility.....
There was some mention of an inter-divisional rivalry game.
That is primarily caused by this ridiculous "zipper alignment".
FSU has returned to being a top 10 powerhouse (although once jameis is gone, that may recede a bit).
Miami is really so-so.... The zipper was created by the "NEED" to split those 2 up....
And then this created a need for the rivalry game.

Re-align, and eliminate any need for the rivalry:

North: BC, (UCONN*), Syracuse, Pitt, ND, Louisville, Va, VaTech
South: UNC, NCst., Wake, Duke, Clemson, GaTech, FSU, Miami

Yeah, some years the south may have more "good" teams,
but certainly Louisville and VaTech have been the top 2 teams over the course of the last 10-15 years.
of course, this would require Notre dame to cooperate, so forget it....







and


Well tute, all seem like a no-brainer -ish logic point of a possibility, and also depending on those alternatives you've shared, especially with the 9-game conference schedule (having 2 non-division opponents on a 4-year basis, with home/away series on an 8-year basis; plus no permanent cross-division rivalries).

But in the end, any of that truly depends with Notre Dame on football, despite being a non-football full member within the ACC.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:40 pm 
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The ACC could go to a model of 7 divisional games whereby Notre Dame fully cooperated, a 16th school is added, and each division contains 8 members.
Only divisional games would count toward the divisional title. A school would have to play all members of their division, but playing members of the other division would be optional but could be multiple. In such as design, for example, WFU, UNC, Duke, and NCSU could all play each other every year. Thus, rather than raising the number of conference games required by one, they would be reduced by one.
There would be a 'pool' of other conference teams in the other division that each school would have the option to schedule with each other. In such a case, Notre Dame technically would only have to play 2 more ACC schools to be eligible for a divisional title. Their ACC opponents, in division, would not be rotating though.

The drawback would be the conference could become less integrated in scheduling and some conference members may not choose to ever bother playing certain members of the other division unless they meet in a conference championship game. And, some schools may seek to 'soften' their non-divisional/ooc schedules to enhance their W-L records or increase their home games. The upside though, rivalry games with schools in other conferences would offer more flexibility. The conference could insist that each member play at least 9 or 10 FBS schools in total, inclusive of divisional opponents. With a north-south divisional model, the scenario would allow for more regional play. If, for example, FSU and BC don't really want to play each other often, why force it if other preferred opponents would be available? There is a divide in the ACC that reaches beyond geography. The conference would be wise not to force certain scheduling some members do not want. Sometimes less may be better. If an 8th conference game would be deemed as a "must" for all members, there could be a requirement to add a permanent or rotating member from the other division whether the game counts for the divisional title or not. That would be no more problematic than it is now.

I know this idea would be opposed by certain conference members, but it may be better than the divisional formats as they now exist.

The PAC12--B1G scheduling proposal got canned, in part, because USC and Stanford did not want such to intefer with their scheduling of Notre Dame. And we know, Notre Dame shall make demands about when ACC opponents get scheduled in order to fit around their other priorities. And hasn't that NBC contract with ND extended to 2025? That complicates further getting any concessions from ND. In any case, ND shall resist any suggestion that their football independence could be lessened.

If Swoffford is going to manage all this to everyone's satisfaction, he better sell a model that reaches beyond the comfort level of a subset of the conference.

Right tute79, ESPN sounds as if they are helping to drive the 9 game format. Of course they shelter themselves from the pain individual schools may encounter to adapt to it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:03 am 
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sec03 wrote:
I know this idea would be opposed by certain conference members, but it may be better than the divisional formats as they now exist.


North/South or East/West better than Atlantic/Coastal? I think so. Shades of the Big TEN did recently with East/West over Legends/Leaders

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:45 am 
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It seems so cart before the horse to seriously consider nine games, playing the "we need content" card when the problem isn't a league-wide issue in finding quality OOC content. Even beyond the "legacy" programs who also have SEC rivalries, or the five ND games, there's plenty of meat in there. This sounds more like certain programs who want to dictate their "power conference" status in demanding one-and-one's or other favorable agreements and aren't getting their calls returned. Their fluff won't get picked up regionally, they get little money for it, don't feel like spending money on a body-bag game even though it's at home, and now they want play on the rivalry stuff.

So, Syracuse doesn't want anything to do with what they left. Why don't they just say that and spare the spin?

sec03 wrote:
The PAC12--B1G scheduling proposal got canned, in part, because USC and Stanford did not want such to intefer with their scheduling of Notre Dame. And we know, Notre Dame shall make demands about when ACC opponents get scheduled in order to fit around their other priorities. And hasn't that NBC contract with ND extended to 2025? That complicates further getting any concessions from ND. In any case, ND shall resist any suggestion that their football independence could be lessened.


There's good business and there's principle. What the PAC walked away from in B1G-PAC was bad business but good in principle, imo. The problem with the B1G are their ridiculous scheduling demands (the entitlement of seven home games and ownership of October and November for conference games) that are VERY much a problem for virtually every who is not in the Big Ten. B1G-PAC football games were going to be a September thing, pre-B1G conference schedule. Doing so would have forced USC and Stanford to virtually shunt their games with ND into the same part of the season to make up for whatever content the B1G-PAC agreement called for.

The loss/suspension of ND's games with Purdue and Michigan were very much because the Big Ten schools just weren't going to accommodate those games any other way than where they've been.

It's called compromise, Big Ten!

I'm not surprised some in the ACC would want to encapsulate themselves with their conference and its half-member. But, maybe knowing Syracuse and their feelings on Notre Dame and their tactics, this could just be a way some schools force ND to either fully commit, or force them to do right by all ACC schools and their venues.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:25 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I'm not surprised some in the ACC would want to encapsulate themselves with their conference and its half-member. But, maybe knowing Syracuse and their feelings on Notre Dame and their tactics, this could just be a way some schools force ND to either fully commit, or force them to do right by all ACC schools and their venues.


Apparently there are many schools out there willing to schedule Notre Dame even on ND's terms. However, other than USC and maybe Stanford, and much of the ACC, other power 5 conferences' schools may not be so keen or available to schedule later season games with the Irish. So in this sense, if the ACC schools will be scheduling October and November games with ND, they would be doing ND a huge scheduling favor. ND could schedule schools such as Army and BYU for the late season as well as a couple of other non-power 5 types. If Navy goes conference fb, they will also continue to schedule AFA and Army, so Navy's flexibility is very much crunched.

Fans, in particular, want rival games such as UGA-GT, S.Car.-Clemson, and UF-FSU at the end of the season. Maybe some of them shall get moved up earlier out of necessity.

Saban and Alabama in the SEC want the 9 conference game format. It's fine with them since all their major rivals are in-conference. Yet, they balk if their cross-division rival, Tennessee, would go to rotation. Compare this to So. Carolina and Texas A&M becoming permanent cross division rivals with South Carolina also having to fit in Clemson. Spurrier has a point in disagreeing with Saban on the matter.

Notre Dame refuses to play conference football, yet they expect eveyone to accommodate their wishes. There's been way too much of that already. Fb independence is ND's allowed option. But the complications with it should not be the responsibility of conferences to resolve. Unfortunately, due to Notre Dame staying put on an unique and very high pedistal by fawning media, broadcasting elements, certain schools and conferences, the bowls system, and forthcoming playoff criteria, there's little incentive for ND to operate differently. The ACC will eventually get bitten in the keister on this, as they may further 'Big Eastize' themselves in mindset and structure.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:37 am 
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sec03 wrote:
Notre Dame refuses to play conference football, yet they expect eveyone to accommodate their wishes. There's been way too much of that already. Fb independence is ND's allowed option. But the complications with it should not be the responsibility of conferences to resolve. Unfortunately, due to Notre Dame staying put on an unique and very high pedistal by fawning media, broadcasting elements, certain schools and conferences, the bowls system, and forthcoming playoff criteria, there's little incentive for ND to operate differently. The ACC will eventually get bitten in the keister on this, as they may further 'Big Eastize' themselves in mindset and structure.


Yeah, the trouble comes along when Notre Dame submits their dates, and that date in November is amongst them when those ACC-SEC rivalry games happen. Maybe those schools aren't put in a bind ever. Who knows.

Where there's trouble are those midweek/non-Saturday games that really irked GT this past season. How often does Notre Dame play them? Should they?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:37 pm 
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It appears to be 3 factors driving the 9-game conference schedule:
1. The biggest would be ESPN looking for more inventory to choose from, particularly if the ACC network gets going. Right TBC, ESPN shall be looking to feature quality Thursday night-type of games.
2. Schools such as Syracuse and BC that may be limited in getting quality OOC ((1-1s') games and don't have a regular OOC bigtime rivalry.
3. The interface with Notre Dame. While including Notre Dame in rotation for 5 games per year would look easier to do with the 8-conference game structure, having 9 would result in more centralized scheduling by the conference office. That way, Notre Dame would be submitting their available dates (though fewer), as others, which would allow also the network to inject greater influence. Conference members shall submit their preferences, and given two (when ND is on schedule) or three available dates OOC games can be scheduled. The conference office shall try to not mess too much with OOC rivalry games of FSU, Clemson, GT that are regular season ending. L'ville's game with KY is usually early season. But it still would not resolve the issue with certain schools that have an extra big game which are viewed a must.

The ACC and the Big12 (and the PAC12 to a degree) are largely verticle conferences. Substantive width seems to be a troubling factor for the divisional alignments for the ACC. Zippering (not sure that's a word) hasn't yielded wonderful results previously. And a north--south structure whereby certain schools have to play 4 North Carolina schools is not so great either. Maybe reaching a full 16 with pods and rotations may ultimately work to better satisfaction.

Here's an article on the ACC scheduling subject matter.

http://www.cardchronicle.com/2014/1/29/ ... ce-network


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:27 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
2. Schools such as Syracuse and BC that may be limited in getting quality OOC ((1-1s') games and don't have a regular OOC bigtime rivalry.


Oh, I bet this is very much a reason. I think this was partially UMD's gripe when the ACC took both Pitt and the partial ND membership, because it made OOC scheduling THAT much more of a challenge for the Terps, losing OOC options with these new members, and then having to compete against them for certain games (WVU, Navy, Penn State, etc.). Heck, even getting body-baggers with ODU, UMass, and Charlotte would have been a challenge.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:58 pm 
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Quote:
ACC officials have voted to send the NCAA's Board of Directors “a piece of legislation that would grant the conferences the flexibility to determine who played in their football championship game,”

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/ ... egislation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:16 pm 
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The ACC lost that relative parity look that was going on for several years. FSU and Clemson are in the same division and they are developing a pattern of being the strongest farily consistently of late. Anomalies such as Duke rising and VT regressing, happen.

In fb, the ACC may show 2 or 3 strong teams per year and most of the rest are just so-so. The problem may not be all about who was in what division. The intent of the original zipper was about integrating the newer members and balance. It stayed largely unsettling.

Some unexpected competitor may reach at or near the top in cycles, but largely FSU may dominate (again) the thing with some among Clemson, Miami, GT, VT, and newbe L'ville, usually nipping at their heels (not the Tarheels).

I am not down on Duke making the CCG last season. They had a well-coached, scrappy team. And they stayed competitive in the Chick-filet bowl against Ta&m and brought a decent crowd with them. A FSU-Clemson rematch would not have been particularly appealing given the earlier season results of the matchup. If winning a division could mean less in the context of a change, there would be new implications.

If the conference can agree who plays in their CCGs for the future, the NCAA may need to have the rule change to allow it. Now, if the ACC somehow allows Notre Dame to wiggle into it without being a full conference member for fb, some folks beyond bb Coach "K' needs to call foul. Also, no alleged UNC favored scheduling on this, or Mr. Swofford will hear about it in the Atlanta press.


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