NCAA Conference Realignment & Expansion Message Boards
NCAA Map

Discussions by Conference:
  It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:20 am

Help support CollegeSportsInfo.com by shopping

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1056 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:39 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm
Posts: 1463
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I try to imagine what it would take to get Notre Dame football fully into a conference. Eight conference games, scheduling autonomy within the conference scheduling, ACC oversight/control of the CCG participants, a potential thirteenth regular season game...I could see that being enough.

Those might be enough and if not the renegotiation of the playoffs/BCS bowls will likely force them as I image that B1G/ACC and SEC are all tired of the special arrangement and will force their hand.

To get them in prior to 2025 might be what your thinking but even then you're missing the largest point, which is that ND makes less TV money than every P5 school at around 17-18mil. Everyone conferences payout is 20 mil+ except the ACC who is just above 18mil.

And while ND keep all the bowl and BCS/playoff money, I doubt that it'll be enough to offset missing out of over 10 million annually as the B1G/SEC/P12 are getting close to 30 million each year (same reaosn why I don't think the Big 12 will survive as only UT/OU/KU will be at that level in a few years).

_________________
Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:34 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 1130
tkalmus wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I try to imagine what it would take to get Notre Dame football fully into a conference. Eight conference games, scheduling autonomy within the conference scheduling, ACC oversight/control of the CCG participants, a potential thirteenth regular season game...I could see that being enough.

Those might be enough and if not the renegotiation of the playoffs/BCS bowls will likely force them as I image that B1G/ACC and SEC are all tired of the special arrangement and will force their hand.

To get them in prior to 2025 might be what your thinking but even then you're missing the largest point, which is that ND makes less TV money than every P5 school at around 17-18mil. Everyone conferences payout is 20 mil+ except the ACC who is just above 18mil.

And while ND keep all the bowl and BCS/playoff money, I doubt that it'll be enough to offset missing out of over 10 million annually as the B1G/SEC/P12 are getting close to 30 million each year (same reaosn why I don't think the Big 12 will survive as only UT/OU/KU will be at that level in a few years).


The money component is exactly why I think it's possible it could happen within the next ten years. If the ACC falls further behind the top top three conferences, ND's only going to stagger further behind, too. The ACC is progressive enough to know what keeps certain things in check there, and the eight game schedule is one of them, and now the CCG qualification is the next piece. I think thirteen games are a forgone conclusion, as some programs are already venturing that way.

I also think that if Notre Dame decided to join the ACC fully, #16 (and maybe beyond) could be someone far better than UConn or Cincinnati. I don't know if that's someone like Penn State, or maybe it's someone in the SEC (Vandy?), or it's something from the Big XII.

If there is a formula for Notre Dame, it's the tradition of Navy and USC, and the guaranteed trip to California through the USC/Stanford rotation. They get the east coast and southern thing with the ACC, and by severing from those Big Ten games, I think they think they don't need to be in the midwest more than when they're in South Bend (they are wrong, but let them keep thinking that). Pretty much the deep south and Texas are all that's left for them to need to explore their greedy "national" pull. I don't know if that component comes in through future ACC members or another Stanford-type fabricated rivalry on ND's end.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:30 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1572
tkalmus wrote:
Those might be enough and if not the renegotiation of the playoffs/BCS bowls will likely force them as I image that B1G/ACC and SEC are all tired of the special arrangement and will force their hand.

Good point. Notre Dame may actually hope the playoffs go to 8. If Notre Dame gets placed in the playoffs with one or more losses, controversy shall be huge. With 5 power five conferences, at least one major conference champion is going to be left out anyway. If it's the Big 12 champion, which also has a loss, that misses inclusion, it may be a bit more justifiable in some folks minds, since it could be compared with Notre Dame who also did not compete in a CCG.
But we know that the ranked poll of 1 -2 -3- and 4, could well show two, or even three, members from the same conference.

The old BCS and the newer power 5 have always brought Notre Dame along in their planning and decision-making. They have consistently gone beyond that, with all the special criteria, access, and financial accommodations afforded to Notre Dame. My impression is that the power 5 conferences have believed it is politically and economically wise to treat Notre Dame with special inclusiveness. Notre Dame does have the extensive fan base, NBC and other media, and bowl interests as clout. And there are influential individual schools interested in maintaining their 'pac' with Notre Dame; and though narrowed now, the conferences that hope Notre Dame will join-up fully with them.

The first thing the power 5 conferences should do is no longer provide Notre Dame a direct seat at the table. Notre Dame is now a member of the ACC, and though ND does not play a full slate of ACC fb, they do have a required rotation agreement for 5 games with the ACC. ND's interests at the table need to be regulated as being voiced through ACC Commissioner Swofford or whomever is a future ACC Commissioner and ND retains sports membership in the ACC. Currently, Swarbrick, an AD representing only one school and certainly tied with the ACC now, sitting at the table with Commissioners Slive, Delany, Scott, Bowlsby, and Swofford, to decide the terms and future shouldn't be called balanced and comprehensive representation nor equity input. On some matters, it is giving the ACC, blatantly, extra input. And somebody such as Scott, for example, may be limited in speaking up about it, because the ADs'/Presidents of Southern Cal and Stanford may jump on his case about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:48 pm 
Offline
All-Conference
All-Conference

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:47 am
Posts: 733
Location: Columbus, OH
If Notre Dame is forced into joining a conference would they really join the ACC as a full member? While the Big Ten can't provide them their national schedule they can surely offer more money than John Swofford's conference can. Notre Dame is not going to want to be in a league where the SEC and Big Ten are constantly eying their conference mates as expansion targets.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:20 pm 
Offline
Freshman
Freshman
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:08 pm
Posts: 10
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Wolfman wrote:
I like the concept of 4 divisions/pods. I would try to balance them between football, basketball, baseball and geography. Your deep south division is brutal. I have no problem splitting the NC schools.

North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, W. Virginia (or Cincinnati)
East: Clemson, Georgia Tech, Duke, North Carolina
South: Florida State, Miami, NC State, Wake Forest
West: Notre Dame, Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech

I would also consider a 4x5 system if the right teams from the B12 were available.


Thanks Wolfman. But I don't get the part you said about my "Deep South" section/pod being brutal. You mean brutal as of a tough sub-division? However, I do like your variation about it, which looks unique. Anyways, how would you group each of the 4 pods into 2 solid divisions? And besides, in order for a pure 16-team league to occur, Notre Dame's football must be in ACC conference play, and away from Indy status still.

By the way, I feel curious about this 4x5 system. Do you know any samples? And do you believe that the Big XII will survive (with or without expansion needed)?


Yes, a very tough division/pod. Playing better teams makes you better but in terms of balancing, that deep south division is much tougher than the others.

I would rotate the pods. If you go with 1 year cycles you play every team every 3 years. If you go with 2 year cycles you get a home-home game before moving on. I've also seen variations where you play your pod (3 games) plus 2 from each pod. That requires 9 conference games which has it's own issues. I have also seen a variation where you play your pod, 3 permanent rivals, plus 1 from each pod. That also requires a 9 game schedule.

I believe the B12 will have to expand but not for the typical reasons. They have only 1 viable candidate (BYU). I don't think WVU is sustainable. I think they are over weighted at the top.

As for the 4x5 - I would still have North, East, South and West pods. West would be the "B12 pod." Add ND to the North and divide the remaining between East and South.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:50 pm 
Offline
All-Conference
All-Conference

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:47 am
Posts: 733
Location: Columbus, OH
I like the pod idea but Notre Dame belongs in a pod with traditional east coast rivals Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College. Cincinnati, WVU, or whomever can be in the pod with Louisville and the Virginia schools.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:32 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 1130
fighting muskie wrote:
If Notre Dame is forced into joining a conference would they really join the ACC as a full member? While the Big Ten can't provide them their national schedule they can surely offer more money than John Swofford's conference can. Notre Dame is not going to want to be in a league where the SEC and Big Ten are constantly eying their conference mates as expansion targets.


I look at the suspension of the Big Ten rival games as a trial separation for the Irish. If they can survive and thrive outside of the midwest in the sport, they'll know they don't need "big statey" around them as a geographic bond. I think sanctifying Stanford, only a rival because of the guaranteed trip to California when USC is coming to Indiana, over the likes of Michigan State is the kind of move that says "been there, done that, no thanks."

Institutionally, they see themselves like other ACC and northeastern schools. If things get so bad for them in terms of revenue, access, and relevancy, I think they'll commit to the ACC. The ACC's going for autonomy, which the Big Ten will never give them, and if the ACC allows its members to schedule who they want in the conference, have some other metric for CCG qualification other than divisional divides, and stick to the eight-game format, I think it becomes hard for the Irish to resist that, even with their "independent legacy" shtick.

Notre Dame's full commitment is going to make the ACC very rich. VERY rich. Potentially SEC-PAC-B1G rich. And I bet that wherever they go, whenever that is, it will pull someone from one of the other majors, too. And that means even more money...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:03 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm
Posts: 1463
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Notre Dame's full commitment is going to make the ACC very rich. VERY rich. Potentially SEC-PAC-B1G rich. And I bet that wherever they go, whenever that is, it will pull someone from one of the other majors, too. And that means even more money...

By other majors do you mean B1G, SEC, or PAC? Because I highly doubt that.

If you mean Big 12 then maybe but unless its West Virginia or maybe Kansas even thats unlikely.

Other than that last comment I agree with your post. The ACC+ND fb and a 16th (WVU, UConn, or Cincy) even with a possible defection or two, will be included forever more in the conversation with the Big 4 conferences (technically they are somewhat outside looking in on the Big 12 though we know that won't last).

PAC12+UT+OU+TT+OSU
SEC+UNC+Duke (or NCSU+VPI)
B!G+KU+UVA (if not UVA then UConn or Syracuse or Pitt)
ACC-3+NDfb+WVU+Cincy+UConn (or -2 w/o UConn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
B12-5=5+SMU+UH+Tulane+Memphis+BYUfb only+Boisefb only
MWC-1+UTEP
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAC (no movement)
AAC-6+6 from CUSA
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUSA-6+6 from SBC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SBC-6+6 from FCS

_________________
Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:58 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 1130
tkalmus wrote:
By other majors do you mean B1G, SEC, or PAC? Because I highly doubt that.


Would it really be that much of a shock if Vanderbilt or Northwestern left for a conference with more similar institutions, truly comparable money, and the chance of getting Notre Dame on the schedule? Penn State's Big Ten tenure has never been fully accepted as a lifelong thing by some, and apparently it was in jeopardy after the sanctions and because of the ACC's growing footprint to the Big Ten's lack of an eastern hub.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:34 pm 
Offline
Senior
Senior

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 am
Posts: 219
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Would it really be that much of a shock if Vanderbilt or Northwestern left for a conference with more similar institutions, truly comparable money, and the chance of getting Notre Dame on the schedule? Penn State's Big Ten tenure has never been fully accepted as a lifelong thing by some, and apparently it was in jeopardy after the sanctions and because of the ACC's growing footprint to the Big Ten's lack of an eastern hub.


It has been stated by the B1G commissioner that any school who unionizes will not have a home in the conference. If that were the case, then Northwestern could be left without a home. I would see them in the XII in addition with Cincinnati to get to 12 and making a broken bridge from Iowa St to West Virginia.

However, I could also see Northwestern decided to jump to the private-school happy ACC (Miami FL, Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Boston College, Notre Dame) and Notre Dame possibly joining in. If that were the case, the B1G would be left at 13 and could send an invite towards Vanderbilt or Missouri (assuming the XII schools were untouchable.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:47 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1572
ACC is apparently in a "watch and wait" mode as to embarking on a proposed ACC network. Swofford's message is that it would take "two or three years to shake out". Also, it was conveyed "the ACC would have to buy back the rights to games ESPN has sublicensed to Raycom and Fox Sports" if the network happened.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/0 ... 81hQlvn-M8

Is this all about caution? Or, is it ESPN has reservations? Or, the projections in revenue would not be up to ACC expectations?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:59 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 1719
They may want to do it in conjunction with ESPN, as the SEC is doing with the SEC Network.
The SEC Network is moving along well, with the cable / satellite carriers coming aboard soonert han the BTN, PAC-12 Netwrk, LHN.
Is that due to leveraging ESPN, or because SEC fans are football crazy, and will glom onto even the sorry OOC body-bag games, which are likely to be what is televised on the SECN ?

ACC may be able to leverage its basketball, since it should easily have a steady steam of content during BB season with 15 teams that are generally QUITE competitive.
For those of you who believe that the FBS power 5 may one day consolidate to 4, establishing a successful ACC Network may be the key to solidifying the ACC as a rung above the Big XII,
which is hampered by Texas's LHN (which ESPN may regret, and which would seem to prevent a conference-wide network for the Big XII).

ACC and ESPN may learn a bit from this SEC Network launch, which will play into revenue projections and ACC Network launching strategy. It seems inevitable, however...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:48 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm
Posts: 1463
tute79 wrote:
They may want to do it in conjunction with ESPN, as the SEC is doing with the SEC Network.
The SEC Network is moving along well, with the cable / satellite carriers coming aboard soonert han the BTN, PAC-12 Netwrk, LHN.
Is that due to leveraging ESPN, or because SEC fans are football crazy, and will glom onto even the sorry OOC body-bag games, which are likely to be what is televised on the SECN ?

ACC may be able to leverage its basketball, since it should easily have a steady steam of content during BB season with 15 teams that are generally QUITE competitive.
For those of you who believe that the FBS power 5 may one day consolidate to 4, establishing a successful ACC Network may be the key to solidifying the ACC as a rung above the Big XII,
which is hampered by Texas's LHN (which ESPN may regret, and which would seem to prevent a conference-wide network for the Big XII).

ACC and ESPN may learn a bit from this SEC Network launch, which will play into revenue projections and ACC Network launching strategy. It seems inevitable, however...


Yes the SECN is doing better than most other networks, but keep in mind that they also came into the market at a good time when ESPN/ABC/Disney was fully negotiating all of its inventory with providers like AT&T and Dish (as that's when those also picked up the LHN).

For awhile I didn't understand the appeal of the ACCNetwork to ESPN and ESPN already has ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU that all show college sports and I figured that they were just canabilizing their own content/market.

But then I looked at the ESPN schedule for the ACC in 2013 and realized that last year the ACC had an average of 3.9 home games a week not televised.
Week # - Untelevised games
Week 1 - 5 games
Week 2 - 6 games
Week 3 - 3 games
Week 4 - 6 games
Week 5 - 4 games
Week 6 - 5 games
Week 7 - 2 games
Week 8 - 3 games
Week 9 - 2 games
Week 10 - 2 games
Week 11 - 4 games
Week 12 - 3 games
Week 13 - 7 games
Week 14 - 3 games
Total - 55 games

With all the major conference having a network except the Big 12 (though the LHN and the regional FOXsports act as their "network") along with the growth of FOX, FS1 there is no reason that any major conference home game should go untelevised.

This should also drive up the TV deals for the MWC/AAC/MAC as their mediocre conent is now more in demand.

_________________
Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:54 pm 
Offline
Senior
Senior

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 399
fighting muskie wrote:
I like the pod idea but Notre Dame belongs in a pod with traditional east coast rivals Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College. Cincinnati, WVU, or whomever can be in the pod with Louisville and the Virginia schools.

Assuming Notre Dame did commit to a full slate of ACC football, that could resolve multiple conference scheduling problems.
At 15, the ACC could do three 5 member pods and rotate with the other pods, playing two from each every year. That's still holding to 8 conference games.
But if ND was fully on-board, adding one more and going to 16 would be sensible.
The options could be 4 four-team pods or two 8 member divisions. However, the two divisions would further constrain cross-divisional play to almost a minimum.
If the ACC is going to take the two overall best for a CCG, then they can go with flex scheduling. An ACC member plays 8 teams out of the total group as do all the rest. Some will have it harder than others, but strength-of-schedules are suppose to matter. Still, a rotation policy can be enacted if preferred.

If Notre Dame is already to schedule 5 ACC fb opponents each season, doing three more is not beyond reason. It looks like ND's common opponents will be Navy, USC, and Stanford. While that would only allow one (in a 8 conference games commitment) other outside the conference, ND's flexibility would be from the pool of 15 other ACC members. Other ACC members would have similar accesses. This would differ from a 8-conference game set employed by the SEC whereby all conference games are universally determined within their divisional and cross-divisional format.

Notre Dame would resist any change toward that, if nothing else than to keep the fb independent label. But it would give them access to a CCG. Maybe everyone, including the B12, needs to go through a successful CCG to get a seat at the playoffs, or be clearly ranked in the top 4 otherwise at the time of choosing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:59 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 1130
Whatever it takes for the ACC to nab its Irish football prize, I suspect it's going to come at a price of conference scheduling autonomy, making the rotation aspect a bit "skewed."

Notre Dame is going to want to retain its "national" pull in recruiting, and I don't think they'll get that with programs like Pitt and BC always on the schedule, though they'll get to see them enough. I suspected their de-prioritization for the ACC 5-game schedule was palatable because the ACC runs the east coast. They'll probably want frequency with the three southernmost members, though. They'll fill the non-conference with additional southern/Texas filler. I suspect they think they can abandon the midwest.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1056 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
 

 

cron




Looking for College Sports apparel? Support our partner:








Support Our Partners: Search Engine Marketing - Search Engine Optimization - Search Engine Training - Online Marketing for Restuarants

Subway Map Shirts - Food and Travel

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group