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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:21 am 
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Bige,
What's the point? Notre Dame has a winning record against most all ACC teams of the past? The ACC is going to adapt an enhanced logo of ND with diminished logos of ACC schools surrounding it?

I viewed Pat Leonard's, ND Alumn, 9/15/2012 commentary in the NY Daily News about being 'fighting mad' at those who have the notion of ND is pulling a fast one on the ACC. Rick Reilly's (ESPN) comments from August were referenced, since his reflection on ND seemed too realistic for some.
Leonard notes the same ole Knute Rockne and four horsemen stuff to help justify the permanent entitlements and certain special treatments for the Irish. This Daily News release may be well embraced in New York City and Chicago, but not so much in Tuscaloosa and Athens.

The top Padre may view ND's aura of generations ago is as firm as ever; and ND's negotiating activities with the ACC have been generous, honest, and loving.
It's perfectly fine ND uses it clout, allure, and notable past to extract favored deals. The ACC is the recent buyer. If the ACC did not exercise "buyer beware" sufficiently, then any future, negative fall-out in the ACC over this arrangement, needs to be on the shoulders of Swofford and the current ACC Presidents.
Gross increases in exit fees, going beyond 14 total members and not all are in for all sports, and adding six BE schools in the past decade and none from elsewhere; sounds like a lust to be Big East II, rather than the ACC.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:19 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
T
I think the best way for the ACC to schedule for basketball is for each team to have 2 permanent rivals that they play twice each season and everyone else once for a total of 16 games and then the remaining 2 games of the schedule are repeats on either a rotating basis or picked based on the previous season's performance to give the media partners a few more high profile games. Partners would be as such:
BC--ND, Syracuse
Syracuse--Pitt, BC
Pitt--ND, Syracuse
Notre Dame--BC, Pitt
Maryland--VT, UVA
UVA--Maryland, VT
VT--UVA, Maryland
UNC--Duke, NC St
NC St--UNC, WF
Duke--UNC, WF
WF--NC St, Duke
Clemson--GT, FSU
GT--Clemson, Miami
FSU--Miami, Clemson
Miami--FSU, GT
This is very similar to the way things are now with a few rivals switched around to accommodate the newcomers.


the ACC Basketball Tournament could run from Wednesday through Sunday if they want to use all 15 teams
Wednesday: 1 seed vs. bye; 4 vs. 13; 3 vs. 14; 2 vs. 15
Thursday: 8 vs. 9; 5 vs. 12 ; 6 vs. 11; 7 vs. 10
Friday: T1 vs. T2; T3 vs.T4 ;#1 seed vs. W1; W2 vs.W3
Saturday: Semi-Finals
Sunday: Final


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Regarding the ACC Basketball tournament, I'm going to guess that they take a page out of the Big East's notebook and award the top 4 teams in the regular season double byes and teams 5-9 first round byes:

Wednesday
game 1: 15 vs 10
game 2: 14 vs 11
game 3: 13 vs 12

Thurs
game 4: 8 vs 9
game 5: 7 vs 15/10 winner
game 6: 6 vs 14/11 winner
game 7: 5 vs 13/12 winner

Friday (Quarterfinals)
game 8: 4 vs game 7 winner
game 9: 3 vs game 6 winner
game 10: 2 vs game 5 winner
game 11: 1 vs game 4 winner

Saturday (Semifinals)
game 12: game 8 winner vs game 11 winner
game 13: game 9 winner vs game 10 winner

Sunday
ACC Tournament Title game: game 12 winner vs game 13 winner


Last edited by fighting muskie on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Brett McMurphy article(previously posted in another thread)reporting that the deal to name ACC Orange Bowl opponents is being finalized.Unclear when the announcement will be made.Link at http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... range-bowl


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:18 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Regarding the ACC Basketball tournament, I'm going to guess that they take a page out of the Big East's notebook and award the top 4 teams in the regular season double byes and teams 5-9 first round byes:

Wednesday
game 1: 15 vs 10
game 2: 14 vs 11
game 3: 13 vs 12

Thurs
game 4: 8 vs 9
game 5: 7 vs 15/10 winner
game 6: 6 vs 14/11 winner
game 7: 5 vs 13/12 winner

Friday (Quarterfinals)
game 8: 4 vs game 7 winner
game 9: 3 vs game 6 winner
game 10: 2 vs game 5 winner
game 11: 1 vs game 4 winner

Saturday (Semifinals)
game 12: game 8 winner vs game 11 winner
game 13: game 9 winner vs game 12 winner

Sunday
ACC Tournament Title game: game 12 winner vs game 13 winner



looks like you are probably right

http://www.bcinterruption.com/2012/9/14 ... s-schedule


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:47 pm 
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I have a fundamental disagreement with Forbes' market share breakdown. The ACC is in better markets, the "media markets" don't really matter as much when you own your own network and BTN reaches 150 million viewers from NY to CA to TX. DirecTV customers with the sports tier have not only BTN, but ALL the games on BTN via overflow channels.

I think the ACC is a better fit for ND, but this wasn't done for market purposes. This was done for academics, limited schedule (which the B10 wouldn't offer) and national recruiting.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:19 am 
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CSNBBS MB thread discussing speculation out of Louisville that Louisville and UCONN "could" be next two ACC expansion targets at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=588879


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:54 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
CSNBBS MB thread discussing speculation out of Louisville that Louisville and UCONN "could" be next two ACC expansion targets at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=588879


Wonder if that would be the ACC's way of telling the Big 10, you play nice and back off, you can have AAU member Rutgers.

17 wouldn't be a terrible number but would end any thoughts of ND eventually joining in football. In basketball you could play everyone once and two rivals twice. Louisville and UConn would make the ACC the undisputed basketball king. Definitely an interesting thought.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:16 pm 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
CSNBBS MB thread discussing speculation out of Louisville that Louisville and UCONN "could" be next two ACC expansion targets at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=588879


Wonder if that would be the ACC's way of telling the Big 10, you play nice and back off, you can have AAU member Rutgers.


If that was their aim, I'd bet on the B1G getting the better end of that deal. Putting the Big Ten physically into the NYC-Philly metro areas doesn't just help the conference for added viewership. It makes schools like Michigan, Ohio State, and Wisconsin that much more "eastern" and accessible, when before they were unheard of by a high school student in NJ.

Getting into PA rejuvenated programs like Michigan and OSU. Imagine what it could be like if they got into the tri-state. What's an ACC?

It's to this extent, the desire to branch out into different regions, where the ACC needs to choose its next potential member wisely (assuming ND does put its football there soon). You could plug up the gap with Rutgers or UConn, which is kind of covered by 'Cuse, BC, and Pitt, or you could tap Cincinnati, Tulane, Rice, or a basketball-only pick like Marquette, and be a known "brand" in good recruiting regions where before you had no visibility.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Now that Notre Dame is coming to the ACC, they need to go get Villanova for everything but football since they don't play D1 football anyways, then they can pair them with ND in basketball and other sports, and even up the divisions.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:57 pm 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
CSNBBS MB thread discussing speculation out of Louisville that Louisville and UCONN "could" be next two ACC expansion targets at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=588879


Wonder if that would be the ACC's way of telling the Big 10, you play nice and back off, you can have AAU member Rutgers.


SJSUFan,
Who knows if the above is true, but that is a perceptive and intriguing comment you delivered. There's growing speculation about Rutgers. In some dimensions (academics/AAU, market location, historical factors, flagship, etc.), excluding bb success of course, Rutgers is as strong or stronger than some of the BE schools the ACC took. The ACC has shown a fondness for building that private school look. That said, unless/until the B1G expands, I expect Rutgers will probably be hanging in the BE.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:43 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
SJSUFan2010 wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
CSNBBS MB thread discussing speculation out of Louisville that Louisville and UCONN "could" be next two ACC expansion targets at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=588879


Wonder if that would be the ACC's way of telling the Big 10, you play nice and back off, you can have AAU member Rutgers.


SJSUFan,
Who knows if the above is true, but that is a perceptive and intriguing comment you delivered. There's growing speculation about Rutgers. In some dimensions (academics/AAU, market location, historical factors, flagship, etc.), excluding bb success of course, Rutgers is as strong or stronger than some of the BE schools the ACC took. The ACC has shown a fondness for building that private school look. That said, unless/until the B1G expands, I expect Rutgers will probably be hanging in the BE.


I completely agree. I am of the mindset that expansion in the Big 5 is about to come to a grinding stop for awhile.

I wish Louisville, UConn and Rutgers got invites elsewhere and the NBE doesn't happen. I hope everyone would then go in three directions: private BB league, a solid western mid major conference starting with BSU, SDSU, Houston, and SMU, and a solid eastern mid major conference with the remaining football schools.

Time well tell. Any of UConn, Rutgers, or Louisville would be good gets in my opinion, but I think it would be a mistake to go to 16 right now because there is a chance that ND will eventually join full time, in which case they would have 17 or even 18 members.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:35 am 
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What if the ACC expanded to 20 schools and merged with the old Big East like they probably should have done in the first place, the conference could truly become the first super basketball league.

Expanding with Rutgers and UConn would round out football at 16 and taking Georgetown, Villanova, and St John’s would finally allow the ACC to move to MSG and keep Greensboro at the same time as a tournament site.

ACC Basketball North: Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, Maryland, Georgetown, Villanova, St John’s

ACC Basketball South: North Carolina, Duke, Wake, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, Florida State

Double round robin basketball could be played with each 10 team division member and a couple made for cross over games for basketball. Both Divisions could have separate tournaments say one in MSG and the other in Greensboro. Each division champions could meet for the NCAA bid or request the NCAA to allow two automatic NCAA bids for the ACC.

ACC North Football: Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech

ACC South Football: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, Florida state


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:52 am 
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lash wrote:
What if the ACC expanded to 20 schools and merged with the old Big East like they probably should have done in the first place, the conference could truly become the first super basketball league.

Expanding with Rutgers and UConn would round out football at 16 and taking Georgetown, Villanova, and St John’s would finally allow the ACC to move to MSG and keep Greensboro at the same time as a tournament site.

ACC Basketball North: Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, Maryland, Georgetown, Villanova, St John’s

ACC Basketball South: North Carolina, Duke, Wake, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, Florida State

Double round robin basketball could be played with each 10 team division member and a couple made for cross over games for basketball. Both Divisions could have separate tournaments say one in MSG and the other in Greensboro. Each division champions could meet for the NCAA bid or request the NCAA to allow two automatic NCAA bids for the ACC.

ACC North Football: Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech

ACC South Football: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, Florida state



There is only 1 non-football school in the country that adds any real value to any of the top 5 conferences, and that school, ND, is already in the ACC. If you're the ACC, you'd likely have more success adding Temple for all-sports than Villanova for basketball. Must remember, now that Temple is in the Big East with Villanova, that one advantage they had for recruiting is now gone. It might take a few years, but I expect Temple to regularly surpass Villanova in that one sport of value: basketball.

That said, the ACC is in the money making business. And at this point, at 14 football + ND for all other sports expect football (and hockey which the ACC does not sponsor), the ACC can't really do too much more to get better. If they wanted to dominate the northeast market, yes, you have Rutgers and Uconn which are a tier high above Villanova and Georgetown. So if they grew to 16, which is still pretty large, I'd think they'd have everything covered. At this point in the conversations about the Big 5 conference, other than ND, non-football schools start up the conversation about diminishing returns.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
lash wrote:
What if the ACC expanded to 20 schools and merged with the old Big East like they probably should have done in the first place, the conference could truly become the first super basketball league.

Expanding with Rutgers and UConn would round out football at 16 and taking Georgetown, Villanova, and St John’s would finally allow the ACC to move to MSG and keep Greensboro at the same time as a tournament site.

ACC Basketball North: Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, Maryland, Georgetown, Villanova, St John’s

ACC Basketball South: North Carolina, Duke, Wake, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, Florida State

Double round robin basketball could be played with each 10 team division member and a couple made for cross over games for basketball. Both Divisions could have separate tournaments say one in MSG and the other in Greensboro. Each division champions could meet for the NCAA bid or request the NCAA to allow two automatic NCAA bids for the ACC.

ACC North Football: Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech

ACC South Football: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, Florida state



There is only 1 non-football school in the country that adds any real value to any of the top 5 conferences, and that school, ND, is already in the ACC. If you're the ACC, you'd likely have more success adding Temple for all-sports than Villanova for basketball. Must remember, now that Temple is in the Big East with Villanova, that one advantage they had for recruiting is now gone. It might take a few years, but I expect Temple to regularly surpass Villanova in that one sport of value: basketball.

That said, the ACC is in the money making business. And at this point, at 14 football + ND for all other sports expect football (and hockey which the ACC does not sponsor), the ACC can't really do too much more to get better. If they wanted to dominate the northeast market, yes, you have Rutgers and Uconn which are a tier high above Villanova and Georgetown. So if they grew to 16, which is still pretty large, I'd think they'd have everything covered. At this point in the conversations about the Big 5 conference, other than ND, non-football schools start up the conversation about diminishing returns.


I agree with you, Matt. Notre Dame isn't some type of stepping stone school to some larger expansion plan to get Rutgers/UConn/Georgetown/etc. If the ACC wanted any other Big East schools to go up to 16 football members, then they would have invited them a year ago. The ACC added NOTRE FREAKING DAME. That is the END GAME for the ACC... unless Texas wants to become independent in a few years (which is a completely separate discussion). Regardless, the special treatment of non-football membership was granted to Notre Dame because they're Notre Dame. We like even numbers of members in our heads, but it honestly has no impact at all on basketball (who can schedule quite fine with 15 schools). The only sport where there's a headache with an odd number of members is football, which isn't an issue at all for the ACC. Plus, why would any of the current ACC members cut down the number of times that they can play ND in order to play Rutgers and UConn? Having a guaranteed game with ND every 3 years is really the biggest benefit that the ACC schools are getting out of the new arrangement.

To me, I don't see it as inevitable at all that ND will join a conference. That's just judging from having to deal with Domers on a daily basis. It's an institutional identity issue for them - the TV contract dollars are a pittance compared to how much alums donate to the school (and I'm telling you, it's an *extraordinary* amount), so there's no such thing as "easing their alums" into a conference mindset. The only way that ND is going to join a conference is because of a structural issue beyond their control, e.g. you *have* to be in a conference to make it to the college playoff. "It might be harder to make it to the playoff if you're not in a conference" isn't good enough - ND has to be literally not allowed to go to the playoff for them to be forced anywhere (and not only have the powers that be not been willing to do that to force ND to do that, but they have even given ND as much voting power as an entire conference).


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