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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:41 pm 
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sec03 - I don't see it. Your proposal reeks of conspiracy (i.e. lawsuits). The SEC also wants into Virginia which you didn't address. There is no interesting matchups with the western SEC teams and north east ACC teams. A&M v BC? Arkansas v Syracuse?

If the ACC is considering expansion they need to try and regain some market share lost by Maryland.

WVU is never going to the ACC. That bridge was burned by both the ACC and WV.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 am 
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Wolfman wrote:
sec03 - I don't see it. Your proposal reeks of conspiracy (i.e. lawsuits). The SEC also wants into Virginia which you didn't address. There is no interesting matchups with the western SEC teams and north east ACC teams. A&M v BC? Arkansas v Syracuse?

If the ACC is considering expansion they need to try and regain some market share lost by Maryland.

WVU is never going to the ACC. That bridge was burned by both the ACC and WV.


For sure. West Va lacks the necessities for ACC membership.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:30 am 
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westwolf wrote:
Wolfman wrote:
sec03 - I don't see it. Your proposal reeks of conspiracy (i.e. lawsuits). The SEC also wants into Virginia which you didn't address. There is no interesting matchups with the western SEC teams and north east ACC teams. A&M v BC? Arkansas v Syracuse?

If the ACC is considering expansion they need to try and regain some market share lost by Maryland.

WVU is never going to the ACC. That bridge was burned by both the ACC and WV.


For sure. West Va lacks the necessities for ACC membership.


And what kind of necessities does West Virginia need to be considered as an ACC candidate? It was not a wise move on WVU to join the Big 12 in the first place, they should have stayed in the old Big East (and possibly in the debut of the AAC).

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:15 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
westwolf wrote:
Wolfman wrote:
sec03 - I don't see it. Your proposal reeks of conspiracy (i.e. lawsuits). The SEC also wants into Virginia which you didn't address. There is no interesting matchups with the western SEC teams and north east ACC teams. A&M v BC? Arkansas v Syracuse?

If the ACC is considering expansion they need to try and regain some market share lost by Maryland.

WVU is never going to the ACC. That bridge was burned by both the ACC and WV.


For sure. West Va lacks the necessities for ACC membership.


And what kind of necessities does West Virginia need to be considered as an ACC candidate? It was not a wise move on WVU to join the Big 12 in the first place, they should have stayed in the old Big East (and possibly in the debut of the AAC).


This is true. Louisville didn't have 'the necessities' for ACC membership either.

If the SEC/B1G raid the SEC for at least 3 programs who will they add? UConn, Cincy, and Temple?

West Virginia is better than all 3 other those. If they are available they'd get the call.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:38 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
westwolf wrote:
Wolfman wrote:
sec03 - I don't see it. Your proposal reeks of conspiracy (i.e. lawsuits). The SEC also wants into Virginia which you didn't address. There is no interesting matchups with the western SEC teams and north east ACC teams. A&M v BC? Arkansas v Syracuse?

If the ACC is considering expansion they need to try and regain some market share lost by Maryland.

WVU is never going to the ACC. That bridge was burned by both the ACC and WV.


For sure. West Va lacks the necessities for ACC membership.


And what kind of necessities does West Virginia need to be considered as an ACC candidate? It was not a wise move on WVU to join the Big 12 in the first place, they should have stayed in the old Big East (and possibly in the debut of the AAC).


This is true. Louisville didn't have 'the necessities' for ACC membership either.

If the SEC/B1G raid the SEC for at least 3 programs who will they add? UConn, Cincy, and Temple?

West Virginia is better than all 3 other those. If they are available they'd get the call.


I agree with tkalmus' points on this. His 2nd sentence I believe he intended to indicate the ACC.

Wolfman, of course I was offering conjecture, and was speculating about a path that was a collective agreement by all parties among the ACC, SEC, and specifically NCSU, if they ALL agreed. Any possibility of such happening is very remote, and I noted that point. For the SEC to get into N.C., there has to be some kind of deal other than the ACC disintegrating. It's not a conspiracy if all parties involved would agree and support it. Frankly, the SEC is not going to accept a scheduling consensus, top to bottom, with the ACC unless something is gotten in return. Those western SEC schools have little motivation to contract with the upper tier of the ACC. By the way, though, I believe it is LSU that is in negotiations with Syracuse to establish a series. On the other hand, Texas A&M and UCLA just made a recent agreement.

Personally, I would rather see the western SEC schools do more with some B12 opponents: re-establish Texas-Texas A&M game, Mizzou-Kansas; maybe Arkansas vs OU/OSU, etc. I tend to lean toward geography and 'natural' rivalries. WVU? If was an uninhibited wizard, I'd have put them in the ACC and kept Maryland there too, and never touched Syracuse or BC.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:57 am 
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It would involve some serious collusion and probably some nasty lawsuits but the SEC and Big Ten should work together and with the majority of the ACC:

Big Ten takes: Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, Duke, UNC, Missouri (from SEC)

SEC takes: Virginia Tech, NC St, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida St, Miami, and either WVU (from Big 12), or WF

Maybe they don't need to absorb the whole thing but it certainly is a thought to consider.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:51 pm 
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The top 2 P5 conferences are B10 and the SEC
The third best P5 conference is the PAC 12

The 4th best conference of the P5 is the ACC(the combination of 7 former BE schools and 8ACC schools)

The 5th best conference of the P5 is the B12(really 10 members 2 BE schools TCU and WVU and losers of 4 schools Colorado,Nebraska,Texas A&M and Missouri)

The B10 is not getting ND and is not interested in Syracuse or BC.They are interested in UVA,UNC,Ga Tech,Texas or Kansas(all AAU schools)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:04 am 
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Wolfman wrote:
If the ACC is considering expansion they need to try and regain some market share lost by Maryland.


QFT. And they blew it in the short-term with Johns Hopkins, who sounded like they would have preferred going there rather than the Big Ten. I guess that leaves Navy for a hybrid fb deal of sorts, like Notre Dame has? Either that, wait for JHU to leave the Big Ten (who knows when that is), or patch things up with Georgetown for hoops-only (a cold day in the blazes when that happens).


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:35 am 
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For crying out loud, Johns Hopkins is D-3, and only joined the Big Ten as a lacrosse affiliate (if I have my facts correct).
This is NOT big-time athletics.

Realistic candidates MIGHT include: UConn, Cincy, Temple, WVU.
Of those, I think UConn makes the most sense (but they may have a lingering pissing contest with BC).
Cincy is too far west (although we could say the same about Notre Dame).
Temple is still getting back on their feet in football.
WVU has first - rate athletics, but is now bound to the Big XII by GoR.
(the ACC president may have some issue with WVU's academics, then again this UNC scandal doesn't exactly make Chapel Hill a bastion of excellence).


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:09 pm 
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tute, to add, Louisville is SW of Cincinnati, so in terms of mileage to ACC schools, it depends on which ones.

Louisville getting into the ACC had a lot to do with being at the right place at the right time, and recent and appearing sustained, athletic success in major sports was solidly evident. Looking at where Louisville once was, and where they have gotten to, they are one of the few schools that made, using a Chinese cultural revolution phrase, ---a great leap forward.

The ACC's attitude toward WVU involved more than academic snobbery. There's some claim that the ACC would have taken WVU, but UNC and Duke resisted.

Seven, or almost half, the current ACC members were affiliated with the old Big East. WVU was a long time member of the BE. WVU is currently in a conference with schools such as Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Iowa State. Thus, the ACC's posturing that they are too excellent (academics) to affiliate in athletics with WVU looks disingenuous. The ACC is known for petty decisions including jealousness and vindictiveness, sometimes contrary to their best interests. Conflict has not been limited to external schools, but has happened frequently from within. The Big 12 made blunders as well. Some other conferences have also. The old BE refused to look clearly at the changes happening elsewhere. Hybrids are not ultimate solutions, but they have proven to be problems.

As to scheduling and partners for shared goals within the ACC, look for Louisville to increasingly bond with FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech in terms of influencing direction. The ACC has immediate vulnerabilities in check. But it better develop more assets than a GoR for the long term future.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:17 pm 
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ACC should take UAB which would put them in the number 1 college football media market. Football isn't strong but that seems acceptable to the ACC. BC and Syracuse are recent adds with limited football success.

UAB has a good basketball history to go along with the med school. And is in the SEC HQs hometown.

Haven't looked at numbers but UAB probably has more research funds than any other school in Alabama.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:19 pm 
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Gemofthehills wrote:
Haven't looked at numbers but UAB probably has more research funds than any other school in Alabama.


UAB isn't geting in the ACC.

But I believe your last sentence is correct. UAB is closer to AAU status than any other university in the state of Alabama. Still they still have a long ways to go.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:54 am 
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tute79 wrote:
For crying out loud, Johns Hopkins is D-3, and only joined the Big Ten as a lacrosse affiliate (if I have my facts correct).
This is NOT big-time athletics.


Lacrosse is a blue-bloods sport, and JHU is the medical giant of the Beltway. It's not lacrosse that's the issue, but choosing to pass on remaining in that region where the sport is its biggest and that particular program being the best in it. Kind of like Sunday morning political programming, what sponsors pay to be seen on shows with little viewership, it's *who's* watching that's more important than *how many.*

I'm sticking to my guns on this one. JHU sounded like they preferred the ACC and lacrosse is growing enough for the need of conferences and AQ. The ACC dismissed both. It was a huge region to lose for the ACC regardless how terrible UMD was historically and politically. The ACC needs this region, like it needs a network to make good on those revenue numbers the commish promised ceryain members. NOTHING in the decision to pass on JHU was good business.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:29 am 
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Agree JHU lacrosse geographically plugs in better with the ACC teams then hte Big ten. No doubt.

You made it sound like you were advocating JHU as a new full-member of the ACC, which is a bit over-the-top, considering JHU's athletics budget.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:01 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
Agree JHU lacrosse geographically plugs in better with the ACC teams then hte Big ten. No doubt.

You made it sound like you were advocating JHU as a new full-member of the ACC, which is a bit over-the-top, considering JHU's athletics budget.


No, just JHU lacrosse. Or any MD D1 program, affiliate or no, for a sport the ACC sponsors. It was such a no-brainer for the ACC, and they let the Big Ten just steamroll through them. I know the ACC probably feels like the five they have (well, four and ND) are better than all, but the impact on recruiting UMD and JHU will give the other Big Ten schools...it will impact the ACC in a bad way.

...and as the sport expands, that, too, will continue to sting the conference.

But even just for football...if there's a similar story about Navy making calls and them going unanswered or cut off for affiliate/partial membership, the ACC is under some pretty bad leadership. I honestly wouldn't put it past the ACC to turn that down, too.


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