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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:40 am 
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GT's had this gripe before, and I think VT's grumbled about it, too. NCSU...what are you going to do about it?

Swofford's too much of an ESPN mark for the conference's good. Putting some of the marquee programs out there in the midweek, or doing any of these zany match-ups in sequential weeks...Swofford should tell ESPN no. I can't imagine ESPN having that much say in the process, but if they do, again, either Swofford doesn't know how to do his job, or the administrators at these ACC schools have no business or clue running an athletic department.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:21 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
GT's had this gripe before, and I think VT's grumbled about it, too. NCSU...what are you going to do about it?

There was the thought it was predominantly about the Coastal Division having the more favored schools. It may be that a couple in each division think they have gotten the short end of the stick at times when it comes to conference scheduling matters: NCSU and Louisville (maybe what was planned for Maryland?) in the Atlantic; and GT and VPI in the Coastal.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:58 am 
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Televised game last night between Pitt and VT at Heinz Field: Halloween came early, a lot of ghosts in those seats.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:08 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
Televised game last night between Pitt and VT at Heinz Field: Halloween came early, a lot of ghosts in those seats.


Lemme guess, poor seating capacity attendance.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:38 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
louisvillecard01 wrote:
Televised game last night between Pitt and VT at Heinz Field: Halloween came early, a lot of ghosts in those seats.


Lemme guess, poor seating capacity attendance.


And yet Pitt fans want to throw PSU under the bus for undermining their Big Ten candidacy. How can one honestly advocate for Pitt's inclusion when even a good rivalry game with VT can't put the butts in the seats there? Pitt people keep thinking there's this grand conspiracy against them by the likes of Paterno and Spanier, when in reality, it's their own student body and the school's lack of an OCS, which shows the school doesn't think it can sustain the operational costs of an in-house venue.

There's a reason Rutgers doubled down on its stadium in New Brunswick even though the Meadowlands would have been cheaper. And why Maryland didn't outsource its stadium to Baltimore or DC. It's called "commitment." They committed to the properties, and the fans stuck relatively around. Now they're in the big league. Pitt abandoned theirs, and its students and fans followed suit. Legacy (is that what they call their nine claimed football championships?) be darned.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:46 pm 
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Now that you mentioned, when will Pitt have a legit on-campus football stadium, so that they won't play at the Steelers' Heinz Field. Back even in their old glory days in the 70's & 80's, Pitt Stadium had almost every game sold out, especially to some rivalry games like The Backyard Brawl vs. West Virginia & especially vs. Virginia Tech.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:33 am 
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Pitt stadium was OLD. Location was good, right on top of the hill above the University.
I think it dated back to the 1920s or so, when football stadium construction involved digging a bowl out of the ground and
piling the dirt up on the sides to create an embankment that gavve a contour for the stands.

Before three Rivers Stadium opened in 1970, I actually attended Steelers games at Pitt Stadium.
I thought it was OLD back then !!!

Yeah, depending on the weather and the schedulethere will be games where the students are otherwise occupied,
or don't go in droves over to Heinz Field. But over the last 20 years, the school dumped a lot of money into other athletics facilities closer to campus,
and decided to lease Heinz Field for 6 home games per year.

A lot of other urban schools faced the same question.

Temple rents the Linc.
Cincy decided to upgrade their 28,000 seat on-campus stadium rather than move games to paul Brown (rather far away).
Minnesota built a very nice new stadum, but perhaps could have saved a lot of money, if they would've co-ordinated with the Vikings.
USF uses the Buccaneers stadium.
UCF built a new stadium
Miami had to tear down the dillapidated orange Bowl in Coral Gables. Are they still playing in the Dolphins stadium ?

Ideally you have a beautiful stadium on campus, that the kids can walk to.
But when these cost tens / hundreds of $$ millions, the athletic department has to consider their budget.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:42 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
Pitt stadium was OLD. Location was good, right on top of the hill above the University.
I think it dated back to the 1920s or so, when football stadium construction involved digging a bowl out of the ground and
piling the dirt up on the sides to create an embankment that gavve a contour for the stands.

Before three Rivers Stadium opened in 1970, I actually attended Steelers games at Pitt Stadium.
I thought it was OLD back then !!!

Yeah, depending on the weather and the schedulethere will be games where the students are otherwise occupied,
or don't go in droves over to Heinz Field. But over the last 20 years, the school dumped a lot of money into other athletics facilities closer to campus,
and decided to lease Heinz Field for 6 home games per year.

A lot of other urban schools faced the same question.

Temple rents the Linc.
Cincy decided to upgrade their 28,000 seat on-campus stadium rather than move games to paul Brown (rather far away).
Minnesota built a very nice new stadum, but perhaps could have saved a lot of money, if they would've co-ordinated with the Vikings.
USF uses the Buccaneers stadium.
UCF built a new stadium
Miami had to tear down the dillapidated orange Bowl in Coral Gables. Are they still playing in the Dolphins stadium ?

Ideally you have a beautiful stadium on campus, that the kids can walk to.
But when these cost tens / hundreds of $$ millions, the athletic department has to consider their budget.


Sure was. Pitt Stadium hosted wonderful classic games as well, like some of them leading to runs for a national title in the 70's, to even the big upset against Miami in 1997.

Anyways, why not the university try to invest on having a new stadium right on some empty area within the campus, and name its field after a famous Pitt player or alumnus like Dan Marino or Larry Fitzgerald or such?

Anyways, those other schools from big cities should all have on-campus stadiums:

a.) In Philadelphia, Temple is in the Linc. (where the Eagles play) because the school hasn't yet made any plans on investing to build a new on-campus stadium.
b.) For Cincinnati, I think it's best to expand its on-campus stadium to almost 40,000. Who knows if they'll be next in line to join a P5 conference?
c.) True. But Minnesota chose to build a new on-campus stadium over sharing with the Vikings
d.) USF is in the Bucs' stadium, yes. But I think that they should have an on-campus stadium of their own someday.
e.) UCF did very well to build a stadium within its campus. A plus for them, even if holds 45,000 seats.
f.) Miami should have NOT demolish the Orange Bowl, where it had a rich history in games for pro and college alike, especially for the Hurricanes. It could have been rescued with investments on re-modifications OR demolish most of the stadium and make renewal investments in a contemporaneous (present-day) manner, while showing tradition. For me, hope that the Canes playing at Sun Life Stadium is temporary.

And look at Louisville's horseshoe stadium. About 55,000 seats. Could be expand upto 70,000 if they please, now that the Cards are in a P5 conference like the ACC, and having some consistent success recently.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:06 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
Ideally you have a beautiful stadium on campus, that the kids can walk to.
But when these cost tens / hundreds of $$ millions, the athletic department has to consider their budget.


The cost of building one is only amplified when in an urban center for any number of reasons.

Temple's said to be looking into a facilty. Temple isn't smart with its athletics, but it's growing enrollment-wise, and getting richer. They bought a lot of the surrounding area, which is not the nicest part of town, and bit by bit, put it to their use. It looks NOTHING like it did back in the 80's and early 90's. Part of my commute took me right by their football training facility. If they could put that thing in that part of town, they might just be able to put a small stadium nearby, too.

But, Temple is one of those cases where it started as a non-traditional school (a night school, thus, the owl mascot), and still has a big non-traditional core. Pitt's different. That part of Pittsburgh is different. For the Big Ten, I think the lack of the OCS is a clincher. Hey, all of these schools are shouldering a load with that kind of investment. If Pitt was serious about its place in college football, which I don't think they are, it would have done everything in its power to have kept a stadium on campus. Being in a conference with schools with some pretty small venues, or venues cleverly wedged in relatively small places, they should take some notes. Pitt's never going to escape this heat, nor should they be allowed to if nobody shows up.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:29 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
tute79 wrote:
Ideally you have a beautiful stadium on campus, that the kids can walk to.
But when these cost tens / hundreds of $$ millions, the athletic department has to consider their budget.


The cost of building one is only amplified when in an urban center for any number of reasons.

Temple's said to be looking into a facilty. Temple isn't smart with its athletics, but it's growing enrollment-wise, and getting richer. They bought a lot of the surrounding area, which is not the nicest part of town, and bit by bit, put it to their use. It looks NOTHING like it did back in the 80's and early 90's. Part of my commute took me right by their football training facility. If they could put that thing in that part of town, they might just be able to put a small stadium nearby, too.

But, Temple is one of those cases where it started as a non-traditional school (a night school, thus, the owl mascot), and still has a big non-traditional core. Pitt's different. That part of Pittsburgh is different. For the Big Ten, I think the lack of the OCS is a clincher. Hey, all of these schools are shouldering a load with that kind of investment. If Pitt was serious about its place in college football, which I don't think they are, it would have done everything in its power to have kept a stadium on campus. Being in a conference with schools with some pretty small venues, or venues cleverly wedged in relatively small places, they should take some notes. Pitt's never going to escape this heat, nor should they be allowed to if nobody shows up.

Certainly there were some operatives that made some big bucks off that Pitt deal to use Heinz Field. Pitt had an old stadium and decided to use the property for something else. Georgia Tech and Miss. State had the two oldest stadiums in FBS, and both got renovated in recent years. If I recall, Pitt Stadium was largely old concrete (walls and all) and maybe projections on renovations were not worth it. They're in Pittsburgh for Pete's sake, finding years ago, steel for reinforcements shouldn't have been difficult. I suppose that's something that the engineers had accessed.
You are indeed correct about students. If it is not close-by, convenient, and identified as their own, they don't show well. And student enthusiasm is contagious, impacts alumni, community/regional fans, and booster support.
Wake Forest has a 31K stadium and modest fan support. But their stadium does provide for a nice campus atmosphere. Wake has the smallest undergraduate enrollment in FBS. Duke is expanding on their 33k stadium. BC and Syracuse keep it cozy. Miami hasn't faired so well in attendance with the pro venues.
Temple using Lincoln looks way beyond their level. It doesn't make a lot of sense unless they are playing schools like Penn State and Notre Dame there. By the way, whose using old Franklin Field? Penn?
Houston's new stadium looks like a major investment. SMU went to the campus focus. Tulane has on-campus plans. These are AAC schools, and comparatively with Pitt in the ACC, more should be expected of them in terms of commitment.
A couple of decades back, using pro stadiums were promoted as up-scale moves. Those rentals were seen as cost-effective. It's been done long enough for the negatives to show.
Pitt also has had much coaching turnover in recent times. A couple were dismissals, but others left due to frustrations or better situations. I can understand why the B1G declined on Pitt. The ACC saw it differently, but the ACC refused WVU to come along, and the conference passing on incorporating the backyard brawl plus other good rivalries was a missed opportunity. The northern tier of the ACC needs improved rivalry games in particularly, and the divide may only widen as the years pass. Had Swofford and company acted more clever, they may have retained Maryland, and not have to listen to Notre Dame whine about officiating when they lose a game with an ACC opponent. I suppose these officials weren't vetted by Opus Dei.


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