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 Post subject: 20 Team Conferences...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:41 pm 
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I was trying to see how the FBS could be split into 20 team conferences. I figured they would have 6 conferences which would "relegate" a few teams down to FCS if independence was destroyed (if it wasn't, then there would be a few independents obviously). However, no matter how I split the conferences up, some less-deserving schools found their way into premier conferences and some better programs were left with nowhere to go but a sub-par conference. This shows me that many 20-team conferences just isn't a possibility that, if it even does happen, wouldn't last very long before implosion. Does anyone have any suggestions of a workable 20-team conference system? If so, I'd like to see it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:57 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
I was trying to see how the FBS could be split into 20 team conferences. I figured they would have 6 conferences which would "relegate" a few teams down to FCS if independence was destroyed (if it wasn't, then there would be a few independents obviously). However, no matter how I split the conferences up, some less-deserving schools found their way into premier conferences and some better programs were left with nowhere to go but a sub-par conference. This shows me that many 20-team conferences just isn't a possibility that, if it even does happen, wouldn't last very long before implosion. Does anyone have any suggestions of a workable 20-team conference system? If so, I'd like to see it.


Workable?

the reason it "doesn't work" is because you don't take teams just to reach a certain number. Teams would have to add value and not every conference can support that. The SEC and Big Ten, yeah. The ACC, Big 12 and/or Pac 12 are going to hit diminishing returns.

And conferences reload immediately after losing membership. Simply dividing up schools is easy, but not a "real world scenario."

If you started with the Pac-20 expanding their 16-plan:
West: UCLA, USC, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Oregon St, Washington, Wash St, Arizona, Arizona St,
East: Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Okla St, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Boise, BYU

SEC making a play for the East Coast:
West: Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy
East: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Louisville, North Carolina, Miami, UConn, Pitt

Big Ten moving into SEC territory:
West: Minn, Wisc, Nebraska, Illinois, Iowa, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Kansas, Virginia
East: Michigan, Mich St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Clemson, Georgia Tech

You have a decent start… but it breaks down from there.

the "fourth" conference is ACC, AAC/CUSA remnants:
West: Iowa State, Kansas St, Tulsa, Memphis, UAB, SMU, Houston, Tulane, UTSA, UTEP
East: Boston College, Temple, West Virginia, Cincinnati, North Carolina St, Wake Forest, Duke, Florida St, USF, UCF

That's a lot of dissimilar institutions.

After that, you've got massive problems. There's 11 teams in the Mountain West and no one remotely close to them, so their "east division" would also need 11:
West: Air Force, Colorado St, New Mexico, UNLV, Wyoming, Fresno St, Nevada, San Diego St, San Jose St, Utah St, Hawai'i
East: Rice, North Texas, Texas St, Arkansas St, Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Middle Tenn St, Fla Intl, Fla Atlantic, Georgia St, Georgia So

The suddenly "powerful" MAC
East: Buffalo, Akron, Kent St, UMass Army, Navy, Appalachian St, Old Dominion, East Carolina, Charlotte[b]
West: Ball State, Bowling Green, Cent Michigan, East Michigan, West Michigan, Miami (OH), No Illinois, Ohio, Toledo, [b]Western Kentucky


Leaving the Sun Belt with So Alabama, Troy, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe, Idaho, New Mexico St Marshall, Jacksonville St
Lamar, and Liberty


Never happen.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:14 am 
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PAC12+ Texas, TX Tech, OU, OkSt, KU, KSU + 2 more from the field
TCU/Baylor (another TX team) CO St (top research) BYU (great but LDS) Boise (fb only) UNM/UNLV (up and comers)

BigTen (14) + UVA, UNC, Duke, GT + 2 more from the field
ND (if giving up Indy) BC (for hockey) UConn (for bball) Syracuse (for LAX) Pitt/Iowa St (duplicate markets)

SEC (14) + VT, NCSU, FSU, Clem + 2 more from the field
Miami (its a new market) Lville (great sports) TCU/Baylor (another TX team) WVU (dark horse)

Big 12 is likely dead if they lose 6 or more rest will join ACC

ACC/B12 will raid the AAC who raids CUSA who raids the SBC who grabs more FCS teams.

MAC is untouched.

Everyone else can easily backfill except maybe the MWC who might just hold at 10.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Interesting thought. An idea I had a while back was for the SEC to gut both the big 12 and ACC to get to 24 and for scheduling reasons subdivide into eastern and western "conferences".

In the east add Virginia Tech, NC St, Clemson, GT, Florida St, and Miami.

In the west add Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St.

This deprives both of those leagues of their valuable programs.

ACC is down to BC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVA, UNC, Duke, WF, and Louisville
Big 12 is down to WVU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, TCU, and Baylor

The ACC and Big 12 then have some hard decisions--a merger would result in a really odd assortment of schools so I imagine the ACC will go to the AAC for replacements and possibly take WVU; other leading candidates being Cincinnati, USF, UCF, and UConn. The Big 12 then has to take the pick of the litter from AAC West and the MWC to get back to a healthy number--Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Boise St, etc would be who they'd have to look at. The Big 12's 5 remaining schools might even consider merging into the MWC.

You can imagine that the SEC's power play causes a knee jerk reaction in the Big Ten and they add at least 2 more--Notre Dame being the key target. Out in PAC 12 land that conference is hemmed in and can't really expand with programs of any real quality that would be remotely near their footprint


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:09 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Interesting thought. An idea I had a while back was for the SEC to gut both the big 12 and ACC to get to 24 and for scheduling reasons subdivide into eastern and western "conferences".

In the east add Virginia Tech, NC St, Clemson, GT, Florida St, and Miami.

In the west add Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St.

This deprives both of those leagues of their valuable programs.

ACC is down to BC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVA, UNC, Duke, WF, and Louisville
Big 12 is down to WVU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, TCU, and Baylor

The ACC and Big 12 then have some hard decisions--a merger would result in a really odd assortment of schools so I imagine the ACC will go to the AAC for replacements and possibly take WVU; other leading candidates being Cincinnati, USF, UCF, and UConn. The Big 12 then has to take the pick of the litter from AAC West and the MWC to get back to a healthy number--Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Boise St, etc would be who they'd have to look at. The Big 12's 5 remaining schools might even consider merging into the MWC.

You can imagine that the SEC's power play causes a knee jerk reaction in the Big Ten and they add at least 2 more--Notre Dame being the key target. Out in PAC 12 land that conference is hemmed in and can't really expand with programs of any real quality that would be remotely near their footprint


I can see the SEC going to 20 by adding Va Tech, UNC and Duke from the ACC and raiding the Big 12 for Texas, OU and Kansas. Put them in 4 divisions of 5 and let them play 2 rounds for the SEC championship.

North- Va Tech, Tennessee, UNC, Kentucky, Duke
East- Florida, Georgia, Auburn, S Carolina, Vandy
South- Alabama, LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Miss St
West- Texas, OU, AM, Kansas, Mizzou

I tried to put a traditional cellar dweller in each division (the north ended up with 2 in kentucky and duke. The south doesn't have a traditional cellar dweller or at least not one with that reputation, but Arkansas, Ole Miss and Miss St are prone to having really down years.) I also tried to make it to where you couldn't point to one team in each division and say they were the clear cut favorite year in and year out. Rivalries would be lost under this plan though. There is no way to save both of Alabama's two traditional rivals in Auburn and Tennessee.
From a basketball perspective the SEC would become the top hoops conference in the nation no doubt about it. Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina and Florida are all good bets to advance deep into the tournament, and in more years than not, at least one would be a favorite to cut down the nets. Throw in other solid programs like Mizzou, Vandy and Texas and there is considerable depth. Plus I think Tennessee will get back to their winning ways and Arkansas could beg Nolan Richardson to forgive them and release them from the curse he apparently put on them after he left the team.


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 Post subject: 20 Team Conferences...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:38 pm 
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PAC 12 adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, UNLV, Boise State, Hawaii, BYU

SEC adds TCU, West Virginia, Kansas State, South Florida, Central Florida, Iowa State

Big 10 adds Kansas, Syracuse, North Carolina, Tulsa, SMU, Houston

ACC converts Notre Dame to a full member, adds Memphis, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Tulane, Baylor, Temple, East Carolina

MWC adds UTEP, North Texas, Rice, UTSA, Idaho, NMSU, Wichita State*, Portland State*, Cal Poly*, Eastern Washington*, Sacramento State*

MAC adds Navy, Army, UAB, Louisiana Tech, James Madison*, Delaware*, Illinois State*

Sun Belt adds WKU, MTSU, ODU, Charlotte, FAU, FIU, Southern Miss, Marshall, Missouri State*


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