I have to agree about expanding. Until there is a real benefit to a bcs conf. they are not going to expand. Now if a TV deal with network allowed all schools to do better with expansion and a conf title game... they would do it. I dont really see them getting enough extra in contract for it to make sense. If the acc had lets say 10 teams already then to only add 2 to get the bucks might be logical. but to add 3 or more seems unlikly to me.

The ACC will never expand for the following four reasons 1. Duke 2. North Carolina 3. NC State 4 Wake Forest. These are the core group that will not back expansion. These four (with the exception of state lately) would not care less about football and do not want to give up the control of the conference affairs. The ACC is a basketball based conference and will remain so. Logically you could include Maryland with these four as football is an afterthought with the terps as well. Remember when they won the league two years back in football and the coach was begging fans to come to games? That does not happen in basketball for the terps.

How is the recent ACC lack luster performance in the NCAA basketball tournament going to impact future ACC basketball revenue? Having all your eggs in one college sports basket could harm future revenue growth. This is the first year of the new CBS mega dollar basketball contract and performance in the tournament is directly link to revenue.

with the last two national champions coming from The ACC, i wouldn't be concerned with 1 down year having negative effects on the league's contracts.

NCSRepresent, I would not be too sure. On the national front, the perception is that the SEC and Big 12 have become better basketball conferences. This could eventually hurt the ACC requiting and TV markets. Strong football conferences are helping to improve basketball with more revenue etc.

We won't discuss the Big East success because they could take all final four spots and the national perception would say the conference is top heavy. Let alone they have played in the last two national football title games.

I can understand the reason the ACC want to remain at 9 teams, however, 12 team all sports conferences are on the rise at least from a national perception.

::) ??? ??? ::) Man did some one miss the boat on this one!

The ACC has some serious incentive to expand because:

1. Even if the NC 4 can outvote Ga Tech, FSU, and Clemson, continued refusal to expand might drive those teams, and possibly Maryland as well, into an expanding BE in a couple of years.

2. Adding Syracuse and BC would not only improve the ACC's bb contract, it'd probably help the mid-level teams in the conference recruit in bball. The ACC would also have the best bball tv contract by leaps and bounds.

3. NC State and Wake are both succesful in football recently. And by going along with the expansion group and possibly Maryland, these teams could outvote UNC and Duke in conference in future power struggles. It's not like the NC 4 are all equal. If NC State and Wake see themselves getting an upperhand in recruiting, scheduling, etc., they may be less inclined to go along with whatever UNC and Duke say.

All the reasons against expansion are valid too. I don't think the NC 4 are the monolithic block they once were. Some of them must be interested in this particular trio of schools, or this expansion rumor would have been publicly denied already.

Want to know why Miami is being considered. How about this, if the ACC conference champ finishes 25 or lower in the BCS rankings THIS YEAR, the ACC loses its BCS spot. Its the Big East rule and its a possibility.

What does Miami gain from the ACC move
1.they lose their unequal shares of bowl revenue
2.they lose their independent baseball team
3.their path toward the BCS is lessened
4.their savings in travel are minimal at best.
Can they get a better deal from the BE
1.going toward a one division setup in bb
2.they want a 12 team football league they can get that also
3.having an easy path toward the BCS
4.possibly having a series with ND

Overall travel cost will be reduced. $$$$concerns from my understanding nearly worked out. Like the Idea of being in a academic league.. Its just about a done deal Um going in 04. cuse n bc follow in 05. 8-)

If Miami has a league with Syracuse and BC and MD and Maryland and Virginia,how does that cut down transportation SIGNIFICANTLY?Also UNC and Duke are still against the proposal.That leaves Wake.Just what Wake wants to lose to Miami.You think that having 5 members being AAU schools out of 12 is a big difference from the current BE?HARDLY.What about the special Miami deals for bowl payouts and the independent baseball of Miami will the ACC give them those?HARDLY

Miami cuts costs because they would be playing in a division where they might have to travel up north past NC once a year, instead of 4 times like last year, 3 the year before.

As for baseball, Miami only loses the fact that they'd have to play games outside of the state of Florida yearly, instead of if they want to. They'd be part of one of , if not the best, baseball conferences each year....so lining up games with teams from all over the country in order to boost their RPI would not be the problem it has been in years past.

Wake, being a private school, depends a lot more on the conference payout to balance the athletic department budget. If what I feel is the pressing issue behind expansion, a renegotiated tv deal that increases the per school payout, is really the pressing issue...then Wake will look no further than the bottom line when making it's vote.


As for the bowl payouts...up until the past two years Miami made about a million per year because they didn't make the BCS. The ACC payout would be significantly more during the years that they didn't do that...and still more when they do.


The key issue is there are several schools who are not happy about how Notre Dame can have the benefits of Big East membership when it comes to bowls, yet contribute nothing to the football side of the conference. These schools know that the basketball only schools are against expansion, and that in order to keep Notre Dame as a basketball member they wouldn't allow the conference to pressure Notre Dame to join in football.

A few comments:

These schools that have a problem with ND's bowl tie-ins without being in the conference, aren't these the same teams that agreed to this scenario when they formed this allegiance? Thing is, the BE schools agreed to this arrangement at the time because they wanted to gain some credibility, and by slapping ND on your schedule, that helps in a hurry. I agree it is time to rework this arrangement now.

Like the Idea of being in a academic league..

Knightgood, did you attend one of the schools in the ACC? If so, I don't think they would want you to announce it with the grammar used in that sentence? Can you explain to me how the ACC is an academically superior conference? Granted, Duke and Wake are stellar institutions, but entrance requirements at Syracuse, BC, and Pittsburgh are more difficult than most other schools in the ACC. VT and UCONN aren't exactly pushover institutions.

Catcaddy, Miami would still have to travel north of NC at least twice a year. Maryland, Virginia, Syracuse, and BC are all north of NC. That's either 2 trips every year or 1 trip one year and 3 the next.

On the side of the ACC, I can't really see the argument that FSU would block Miami from the National Championship game. As it stands, the 2 schools play each other year anyway, and I find it highly unlikely that the 2 schools would be aligned in opposite divisions should the conference expand to 12.

I think this is far from over, but I think it's just as likely that the Big East raids the ACC as the other way around.

Tigerguppy2 (DawgandDucks name for you fits)

Not only are you regularly rude, which is bothersome, but now you resort to not letting the facts get in the way of your opinions...

Travel costs...The BigEast is a predominantly Northeastern conference. The ACC is a southeastern conference. Last map I looked at Miami was SOUTH. The travel costs, although I don't personally think a big issue are indisputable! Miami significantly cuts travel in the ACC. Even if they drag Syracuse and one other with them.

Independant baseball...A paper Tiger argument. Miami baseball doesn't want to travel to the Northeast. They have played ZERO games in the Northeast over the past four years. They don't like the travel. They don't like the weather. They like the homefield advantage of Florida. Let me give you a list of some of their road opponents over the past four years...These include Georgia Tech, Virginia, Florida State (every year), North Carolina, and North Carolina State (as well as a couple of SEC schools). I am not a Miami fan, but logic dictates that they have no issues with going to these schools since they currently play them, and they play some of them on the road. Miami baseball is therefore a likely independant in baseball if they stay BigEast, but it appears that a move to ACC baseball doesn't significantly disrupt what they are already doing! Just the facts. 8-)

50 independent baseball games with 5000/6000 does mean something.A few million dollars per season.Also travel is not only mileage sensitive but hub sensitive.Where are the hubs in the ACC?Mostly not at hubs.Who are making all these financial calculations?Do you know all the assumptions?