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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:44 pm 
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first the other big boys wont avoid ND> to much free pub. + they will play on nbc. Nd wont join BE and i doubt they will join big 10+1. The only thing ND might lose is the tie in to big east bowls. To be honest I think the BE would be stupid to continue that arrangement.. they are strong in bb and will do fine with no ND. If they were smart they would quickly before acc does anything cherry pick best no bcs school avail for all sports n dump ND. Louisville most likely that gives them 9 for fb which is much better than 8.

Knightgood, ND might join the Big East if they sense that their other sports are in trouble. Imagine ND basketball being in the Horizon League or A-10. Do you honestly think that ND wants to give up what it has right now in basketball? Very doubtful. Also, I never heard much about ND baseball until ND joined the BE for all other sports but football. Either last year or year before last, ND got to host a baseball regional. Think they could have done that in the A10 or Horizon?? Don't think so. Losing the BE bowls will hurt ND, but what will hurt them more is losing their home for other sports, including non-revenue sports. While ND fans may want the Big Ten, ND administration will go with the Big East.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:00 pm 
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It is funny that some BE and ACC fan boards see the Miami, SU, and BC to the ACC as a done deal.
While it may seem logical for this type of expansion for the ACC, the BE will counter offer any attempts to lose those three or any other football members including Notre Dame.

The Big East can let Notre Dame has its cake and eat it too and still have plenty of cake left over for the other 8 football teams.

The BE could allow any school that gets a BCS at large bid, keep all the revenue or a large portion. If Notre Dame wins the conference football championship and automatic BCS bid, they would keep the same per centage as any other BE member. This would be far better than any other conference could provide Notre Dame. Notre Dame could keep its own TV contract for home games or acquire the money generated by home games if included in the BE TV package. BE already pro rates teams based on bowl and TV performance.

The only compromise Notre Dame will need to do is schedule 8 BE football teams. With 12 games in some seasons, they have four remaining for Big 10, Pac 10 etc.

A big factor in expansion is academics. The first incorrect assumption is Notre Dame will lose its TV contract and this will make Notre Dame move to a conference.

Notre Dame has to be more concerned with remaining independent and keeping academics high at the same time. This is very difficult balance. First argument, if Notre Dame were interested in the Big 10 for the academic alignment with U of Chicago, they would be in the Big 10 by now.

I beleive the BE will keep Temple and add both Army and Navy to reach 12. The basketball schools do not have any issues. Academics is not an issue. Army and Navy have both national and international following.

This 12 team alignment would generate a better TV contract than the 12 team ACC format. In fact, Notre Dame does this now as an independent without the other games.

Another benefit is close travel for most of the BE East fans to projected Meadowlands for championship game. NY is pratically a home game for Notre Dame.

North: Syracuse, Notre Dame, BC, UConn, Army, Navy

South: Pitt, Temple, WVU, Rutgers, Va Tech, Miami

Many benefits support this argument. There are reason why Army has plans to upgrade its entire athetic program including payments for better coaches and stadium upgrades. If Army and Navy can perform half as good on the Big East football fields as the middle east oil fields, their contributions will be many to the conference.

Factor in such arguments as Syracuse fans thinking the worst scenerio of BE teams playing the BE basketball tournament in home state NYC MSG and their team and fans are tracing off to somewhere in NC.

We have resolved the money issue, the TV issue, the travel issue. The benefits to remain in the Big East.




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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:11 pm 
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While ND fans may want the Big Ten, ND administration will go with the Big East.


May have missed your comments on this one, but I think given the choice, the "Administration" would want to go for the Big Ten, given how much more money is involved.

Granted, it could depend on how many teams the Big East has when it is all said and done, but the Big Ten makes more TV money in Football (#2 to SEC) and Basketball (#2 to ACC) than the Big East and gets a lot more exposure outside of the northeast & Florida than Big East teams do.

Since the almighty dollar & TV exposure rules all sports bureaucrats, I find it hard to see ND using any other criteria to base their decision, if backed into a corner.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:46 pm 
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EarthX, more exposure on the Big 10 is a myth. I live in Phoenix, and surprising the Big East gets as much exposure in football as the Big 10 and actually more exposure in basketball.

Reasons are simple, football is a regional sport. ABC does have more games scheduled with the Big 10 over the BE, however, they are not on TV in Phoenix because Pac 10 games are on the tube. ESPN has almost the same amount of BE games as the Big 10 due to the many time slots.

The SEC is a whole different situation. When the BE had the same deal with CBS, they got much more exposure in football than the Big 10. It will happen again when Notre Dame football comes on board.

As for money, I disagree with you because the Big 10 does not distrubute money on performance and TV appearances. Maybe Syracuse would make more money in the Big 10, however, Notre Dame will make more money remaining in the Big East.

There is much benefit to Notre Dame joining the Big East or as stated, Notre Dame would already be in the Big 10.

One most important very important point, have you been to New York City when a Notre Dame game is on TV. I rest my case. Notre Dame is much eastern as mid western.

When time comes, you can bet Notre Dame will be in the Big East.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:57 pm 
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One most important very important point, have you been to New York City when a Notre Dame game is on TV. I rest my case. Notre Dame is much eastern as mid western.

I think you might have shocked a helluva lot of Chicagoans on that one.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:00 pm 
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bgdz, point taken. Notre Dame may have as many fans in LA or the Bay Area. Maybe we need to get figures on the catholic population of each of the major cities to determine the correct fan base for Notre Dame.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:18 am 
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EarthX, more exposure on the Big 10 is a myth. I live in Phoenix, and surprising the Big East gets as much exposure in football as the Big 10 and actually more exposure in basketball.


Hmmm... That's definitely not true here in Texas. Lots more (relatively speaking) Big 10 than Big East. Interesting.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:56 am 
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Earthx, does that mean that ABC bumps Big 12 games for Big 10 games in Texas? Or maybe its the time difference?

We all get the same ESPN/2 games. Maybe someone can provide the actual number of Big 10 games last year versis Big East games on cable. Out West we usually get the 9 a.m. games(which is nice and you do not have to wait until noon to watch football). This time slot usually has a lot of Big 10 games and also BE or ACC games. The Big 10 usually does not play very many night games and those time slots are dominated by the other BCS conferences.

As for the West, ABC usually has Pac 10 games. There are some exceptions on double headers (i.e. Ohio State/Michigan, Oklahoma/Texas, FSU/Miami).

Fox sports has a lot of Big 12 games.

The Big East definitely hold its own on basketball TV games.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:29 pm 
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BE success with basketball games on tv is why the ACC is making this move. The ACC is the SEC of basketball in terms of tv money. Add boston, new york, and miami to that package, especially with Syracuse just winning a national title, and the ACC is untouchable in terms of basketball tv money. I think that's driving this move more than football. And if the ACC pulls this off, they might be willing ot bring in two basketball only members, like Georgetown or UConn (since UConn would go back down in football in the BE imploded). There's money to be made in football, but if the ACC pulls this off, it'd be the coup of a lifetime in basketball, and that's why the major voting block in the ACC isn't complaining about this expansion idea.

If the BE survives this, then I agree that ND will eventually go BE. Too many pluses. Joining the Big 10 would mean surrendering too much power. They'd be the biggest boy in the BE. And the BE tv contract would swell with ND added to the schedule in major northeastern markets. The title game would do just as well in NYC as it would in Chicago. But the BE has to survive this test first. If ND would even hint at willingness to join in football, that might be enough to settle Syracuse down, and if Syracuse doesn't budge, there's no danger at all. The ACC is playing a game of chick right now. Va Tech needs to wise up and realize they will probably be left out entirely. If they pledge not to leave, Syracuse may settle down. This is a total mind game by the ACC.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:00 pm 
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Accnole2, Agreed, all of this expansion rumors are creating a lot of mind games.

There is a meeting taking place this week between Notre Dame and the BE in Florida for minor bowl considerations.

How shocked would America be if Notre Dame agreed to join the BE for football?



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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 10:02 am 
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That would be shocking. Big 11 would have to finally give up that dream. ND is like the prodigal son for them. Hard feelings, but they always hoped to hook up in the end. Fine, I murdered that analogy....

That'll totally shift the power between conferences, and boy will Clemson and FSU be pissed. Not at ND, but at the ACC's failure to act. That's gonna be a real problem down the road. And it makes the SUPER BE still a possibility. For now, since adding ND would mean no change in basketball, the BE would just sit tight at 9 and only expand when necessary. This is the one move that would probably freeze expansion, and it'll be a huge relief to the Pac 10 and the NC 4. Not so good for the Big 11, because that will mean losing any shot at ND and Pitt, but there's less pressure on the to go to 12, so they have more time to work on Missouri and Iowa St. Nevertheless, once the Big 11 does finally expand, further expansion across the baord is inevitable. Something will give in the ACC and the BE will be watching (and probably itching to get back at them). So, at this point the split with the bb-only schools will probably occur, the rift in the ACC will form, and if UConn leaves with the bb schools (admittedly that hurts) that makes room for the following:

Obligatory (sorry guys) speculative conference:

North

BC
Notre Dame
Pitt
Rutgers
Syracuse
West Va

South

Clemson
FSU
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Miami
Virginia Tech

The beauty of this conference is they can keep Rutgers and approach Penn State under the radar. It's a great conference on its own, but if for some reason things are not going well in the Big 11, 12, or whathever it's called then, they can always promise PSU Rutger's spot a couple of years down the road. This alignment would be balanced in football, and with Louisville in the south, not totally unbalanced in basketball (Clemson and Ga Tech would probably pick up the slack shortly). It'd also keep the maximum number of old rivalries alive, and still set up some unbelievable title games.


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