This media market stuff is a bunch of overplayed nonsense. Sure the ACC should add Miami, a trip to South Beach from Charlotte would be nice for fans. Syracuse and BC are not geographically close, and will have negative elements as time goes by. There is no proof that BC is going to bring huge amounts of TV money, over the long term, plus off-set other travel costs, as compared to having Va Tech. Any kind of sales gimmick can be put together. Wasn't Miami's complaint travel costs and they were losing money? Much of their games were in big northeastern cities.
The ACC prided itself of its schools being close. This helped with intense rivalries, particularly in basketball. As it is, FSU's, Clemson's, and Ga Tech's top rivals, respectfully, are in the SEC.
Again, the media market thing--not a single SEC is in a huge city, even by southern standards. Ever visited Starkville or Oxford, Mississippi? Auburn, Alabama? Fayetteville, Arkansas? Gainsville, Florida? The SEC is composed of Vanderbilt (Nashville-nice city) and eleven flag-ship state Universities or land grants. What they have going, is that they are neighboring states, inclusive of traditional rivalries, and "pure southern". Analogies could be made with similar strong conferences--Big 12, Big 10, and PAC 10.
By comparison, and in SEC territory, C-USA is in cities like Memphis, Cincinatti, Louisville, New Orleans, Tampa/St Pete, Birmingham, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and Houston. What bigger city markets could one find in the south outside Atlanta? Hence, the city thing is over-stated!
Fans like to drive to games within reason. They love the nearby rivalries (OK, I will cede USC vs Notre Dame). They love to argue and bet with friends and family who are alumni or support nearby competitors.
This big city media market initiative sounds like the NFL. Frankly, there are around 40 colleges in the Boston area, and BC is not the Patriots.
True, Miami is a good addition to the ACC if it goes. Va Tech certainly would be a second. The third choice would be West Virginia (would be great for VA/MD), or Louisville (and that is geographically removed a bit, but not as profound as Syracuse and BC). Even Rutgers (skipping Temple for obvious reasons) is closer than Syracuse and BC, and they are in the backyard of NYC. Heck, if Navy (national & DC) had decent basketball, they would fit.

I agree on the media market stuff being overrated.
However, there are a couple of other things at play here besides media markets.

1. Miami wants BC & Syracuse in the ACC. There has to be a reason for that desire, and there is. The reason is that a lot of Miami alums are in the northeast, and Miami wants some power as a private school. If the trio of Miami, BC, & SU comes into the ACC, you will have 7 state schools and 5 private schools in the conference. So far, no 11 or 12 team conference has that many private schools in it. Private schools like to have power.
2. Some ACC schools do have northeastern ties. Look at Maryland, UVa, Duke & Georgia Tech. A lot of their alums live in the northeast. You might be able to throw UNC in this group also. This could be another thing driving the Syracuse/BC combo.

They don't call Duke "South New Jersey St" for nothing ;D

You are on target. I believe Wake, being one of the smaller privates in 1-A would take comfort being formally associated with 4 other privates. In a way, it may take some distracting focus away from them. Even Duke would begrudingly see some merit it this.

Call it the "Vanderbilt syndrone" shared by varying degrees at places like Northwestern and Baylor.

But, BYU, Stanford, and So. Cal being private too, the blanket analogy cannot be made.

Catdaddy, the "South New Jersey State Univ." is classic, thanks for reminding me of it. That just may make another cases for Rutgers! lol

I completely disagree with the invite of BC. Miami is a given to invite. Cuse is nearly a given as well. It is tough to not invite the bball national champions. VT would immediately add a much needed boost in football and provide instant rivals to the league. Can we really get excited about BC vs Duke/Wake/UNC and such? Probably not. When the SEC expanded, they did include new markets but that was not the sole reason for the teams they selected. SC and Ark provided teams that were close to the existing conference members. How many new TVs are in Arkansas anyway? The ACC will miss the boat by excluding VT.

Two things about Arkansas:
1. Little Rock is nothing to sneeze at. It's a pretty good sized city, and I'm sure Arkansan will agree with me on that.
2. U of Arkansas has a very sizable alumni presence in north Texas and Dallas. Lots of tvs out in Dallas. ;D

Duke and NC did a switch and did a pro-expansion vote to keep out Va Tech from an invitation. If the Big East can pull it off at their meeting, maybe they will persuade Syracuse and BC to stay. They may not be that gung-ho switching to the ACC anyway. Suppose Miami still opts to leave, and 'Cuse and BC stay, then would the ACC take Miami alone? I think they would.
With the Big East able to retain 'Cuse and BC, and Miami went, they still could have a strong chance staying BCS. They would have to acquire Louisville and perhaps another. It still would not be as strong with the loss of Miami, but they could survive for BCS.
If the above happened, would the ACC change its mind on Va Tech and look for another? They would want a strong private first. Maybe a Cincy? Tulane is out of reach and Vanderbilt is firm in the SEC. Just speculation, but some crazy surprise could happen.

They won't take Miami alone unless they are totally stuck. They'd go ahead and move on Va Tech, since the "go for 3" vote didn't include a certain three teams. Then they'd pick away at the BE for a third to fall out. If BC and Syracuse refused to budge, then they'd look at UConn for basketball and theoretically as share of the NY market. Expansion right now is being driven primarily by football, since the ACC has anew deal coming up, minor markets and appeal, and their flagship team FSU has an old coach and a crappy record of late. Miami is FSU insurance. The rest is about market size and overall balance in athletics. Va Tech is definitely #4. If BC or 'Cuse balk, then Tech would be additional insurance of getting the conference two BCS bids.

I do not believe the financial projections given by the ACC are valid.They seem to like financial projections made by some accounting firm for an energy firm in Texas.
The TV market analysis seems to be a poorly derived set of projections based on POOR assumptions.For example the market analysis for TV for Boston area and for Syracuse were made not on fact but on the amount of money needed to keep the payouts as high as they are needed to be.The worth of the playoff for football also seems to be driven by the need to come with the needed money rather than on its worth.The new ACC is not of the same value as the B-12 or SEC divisional game.LET THE BUYER BE WARE OF FALSE FINANCIAL PROJECTIONS.

ACCNole3:




I might disagree a bit here with your feeling that VaTech is definately #4. They've already been considered (forcibly by the Gov of Virginia) and been rejected. To go back to them now does two things:

• admits you're taking someone you don't really want
• dilutes BB

As much as you've talked about Pitt being a two-sport contributer that the Big11 should consider (I still believe they have no interest in them), I wonder if this might be the better fall-back if Syracuse or BC doesn't agree to join the ACC (especially if it's BC that doesn't join since it gives Syracuse a close partner). New market, new state, getting better in FB, solid in BB.

UConn of course is a less likely team - but given the facilities upgrades and newness of the FB program and the BB competitiveness, I could see them going to UConn in a pinch. If it's Syracuse that doesn't join, this gives BC a close rival. UConn is an addition the BB interests would love to see over VaTech.

In the end, I really think Syracuse and BC go anyway - but if they didn't, I think Pitt is next on the list.

I agree the $$ is not there to ensure that each ACC school will continue to get $9.7 mil. But, the question is what option is going to provide the most money in the future? If the TV revenue is going to go down anyway, for possibly every conference, what alignment is going to provide the most return. An ESPN.com article suggests the ACC basketball schools are recognizing this and may (MAY) be inclined to accept smaller revenues if it represents the best option to choose from.

Even if the BE adds L'ville, Cincy and keeps 'Cuse, BC and Temple, would their FB product be worth more for Miami than the ACC? TV may be better, travel costs may not and heaven help them if they miss out on the BCS. That's the decision before Miami, and we all seem to agree that nothing shy of ND or PSU entering the picture may make the numbers work for them.

And while the BE is considering it's own expansion, there is the notion that they'll have to compete with the ACC for some teams. Politics will be an issue after the recent ACC votes, but if Miami goes to the ACC and VT is invited, they're gone and the BE FB package is severely crippled. Not dead, but nowhere near the financial package the ACC would become. Also, consider that a weakened BE may lose not only BCS membership but bowl affiliations as well. The new ACC would likely fill two or more of those bowl slots for additional revenue.
Suddenly the BE is asking Louisville or Temple to come on board knowing they cannot offer the same as the new ACC.

This is exactly what 'Cuse and BC are reflecting on - Yes, being in the new ACC may not be overwhelmingly attractive, but it may be the best option available come 2006, 07 and so on. As an ACC fan, I preach regionality in conference memberships. I'd like to see those two schools remain in a competitive BE and fear that the best option for the mutual benefit of both conferences will be (has already been?) ruled out.

ACC IS NOT THE BEST FOR MIAMI.The TV market for NC(4) members and Clemson (1) member is a POOR TV market.The TV market for MD is good and for GA TECh is good.However,the majority of fans in Georgia are for the UGA.Fl ST is good as long as they are a national team.After that it is not so good.The money from tha ACC comes bb in NC.The TV market VTECH is worse than Clemson.If Miami stays with Syracuse and BC the new 12 team BE will be stronger than the current BE.The football league will consist ofUCONN,Temple,Rutgers,WVU,VATECH,PITT,BC ,Syracuse and MIAMI.Probably ND who will be given a sweet deal.(also the remaining 5 bb only schools want a minimzed travel budget)That will be 10.The there will be Louisville and Cinncinnati.Miami's travel expenses will really go down with a 2 division setup.The northeast tv market is clearly superior to the ACC.10% of NY/NJ is better 50% of SC.Also to help get ND into football there will only 7 league games.

Not debating the TV market angle, but that same "poor" ACC market provides the most money per-school thus far, and that's what matters to the schools trying to fund their programs. Add to that any quality expansion teams and their markets, plus the additional national air-time that comes with league upgrades and there you go. Miami vs. BC would be just as attractive as an ACC game as a BE game, and Miami FSU would take on larger status for divisional reasons.

Regarding your points about the probable BE expansion counter-proposal. Again, I agree with you that such a proposal would be better for Miami but it is dependent on some hefty "if's"; ND feeling the need to join any conference, and the likes of Temple, L'ville and Cincy saying yes to the BE before going elsewhere. Ironic that Miami could be willing to put itself into a position of dependency on what the Irish may-or-may-not do! Can the BE truly afford to give away even more $$ and/or conditions to both Miami and ND? Would ND be better off with the new BE or with either the BE or ACC losing its BCS bid?! And if the BE could offer ND the chance to keep so many ooc games to appease it's national audience, the ACC proposal can do the same for Miami.

As for the travel cost, I don't see how Miami's costs would go down much, if at all, in the new BE divisional format. VT and WVU remain your closest opponents.

I trust that all the AD's involved will do what makes the most sense financially. It may not be what we want for conference affiliation, but these are schools first, sports programs second.

The idea that ACC payouts will stay where they are currently is non-valid joke.TV moneys will go down in general.The value of a divisional playoff making up for 3 new members is a bad projection.Travel costs will go down because of a divisional system will concentrate based on geography.One big trip and a system of moves from one trip.For example if a division which Miami is in contains BC/UCONN Rutgers/Temple and VATECH. with other dision trip to Pitt/WVU.

I gotta agree with tigersharktwo on this one. Travel costs will be major. Syracuse and BC are taking a HUGE risk if they leave the Big East and if the projections the ACC are promising fall short and their travel costs spike (as they surely will as they will be heading South for almost every game in every sport - except when they play each other), they will be facing enormous long term losses. Not to mention the fact that their fans in the Northeast will feel cheated in that they will no longer be able to go to away games to see their team. Creates a much more "professional sports" atmosphere for BC and Syracuse.