Conference call for the Irish

Entering Big East best for ND




Moving independent Irish to Big East Conference would give Ty Willingham and Notre Dame a better chance to capture a national title.

It's time for Notre Dame to drop its independent status and seriously consider joining the Big East in football.
The administration is staunchly against it, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

The Irish — one of the magical names in college sports — are in danger of losing their spot as one of the country's elite programs. The last time they won a national championship was 1988, two coaches ago. The last time they were a legitimate contender was 1993. The only time they played in a BCS game they wound up getting blown apart by Oregon State, 41-9, in the 2001 Fiesta Bowl.

Notre Dame was 10-3 last year, but is 3-5 ever since meeting Boston College last November.

The Irish, who are lucky to be 1-2 this season, head into Saturday's game at Purdue with an unstable quarterback situation and an upcoming schedule that includes a road game at Pitt, a visit from USC, a Holy War at Boston College and Florida State at home. The Irish could have six losses by November.

Notre Dame has been linked to the BigTen in the past, and the ACC— looking for a 12th team — would love to have the Irish. But Notre Dame risks losing its national identity if it finishes lower than third in either conference.

A post-Miami/Virginia Tech Big East seems like a much better fit. An Irish presence would give the conference renewed legitimacy with the BCS, something the league sorely needs if Pitt — which just gave up 551 yards in a 35-31 loss at Toledo last Saturday — doesn't step up.

It could also make the Irish — who currently need to win at least nine games and, as an independent, finish in the Top12 of the computerized polls to become part of the BCS pool — a perennial contender for an automatic bid to a BCS game by allowing them to feast on Eastern teams. At the same time, with only seven league games, Notre Dame would still be able to schedule traditional rivals like USC, Michigan and any one of the service academies.

Notre Dame has to decide what it wants to do by Nov. 4, which is the day Big East presidents are scheduled to meet and finalize a reorganization plan.

Of course, Notre Dame coach Ty Willingham must continue to upgrade recruiting and figure out whether his West Coast offense can succeed outside the Pac-10 to make that dream come true. But it is becoming increasingly obvious Notre Dame has a much better chance to win a national championship as a a member of a conference than an independent.

Playing in the Big East wouldn't be that much of a stretch. Notre Dame already plays three Big East teams this season: Boston College, Pitt and Syracuse. And the Irish have played West Virginia and Rutgers in the past. The die-hard alums and subway alums up and down the Northeast Corridor — who are constantly making pilgrimages to South Bend — would certainly love it. And even though Notre Dame would have to split bowl money, we're sure Big East officials would be more than happy to allow the widely popular Irish to keep their NBC contract for home games.

Maybe Notre Dame will surprise us. Maybe freshman Brady Quinn from Dublin, Ohio, the quarterback of the future, can become the quarterback of today if he wins the job from Carlyle Holiday this week. Quinn stepped in for Holiday and actually led the Irish on an 85-yard TD drive at the end of a 22-16 loss to Michigan State last Saturday.

Notre Dame fans, who were wearing T-shirts that read, "The Holiday's Over. Win with Quinn," want to believe again.

_________________
The Bear may be dead but he still hates Tennessee. Roll Damn Tide

ACC eyes Irish as NCAA demands 12

by Mike Corey
September 25, 2003

The University of Notre Dame is the lone target in the Atlantic Coast Conference's attempt to expand to 12 schools, with the stipulation that the Fighting Irish would not have to immediately sacrifice their independent status in football, The Charlotte Observer reported Wednesday.
The news highlighted a sudden rekindling of news in the ACC expansion process, as separate Associated Press stories announced that the NCAA had "informally rejected" the league's bid to hold an 11-member football conference championship game, that the Big East--the current home of Notre Dame and soon-to-be ACC members Virginia Tech and Miami--intends to invite Conference USA members Cincinnati, DePaul, Louisville and Marquette to join its league, and that ACC officials may vote next week on divisional play for football in preparation for the 2004-05 season.

In an e-mail to The Chronicle Wednesday night, Duke President Nan Keohane said she had "heard nothing about the NCAA's response on the football issue" nor of the Big East's "strategy or tactics," though her stance on adding a 12th school has remained consistent with her position from this past summer.

"I have no doubt that some of my colleagues still wish to see Notre Dame included, and some of them also are anxious to have us move to 12 teams," Keohane wrote. "Duke is not advocating expanding to 12 teams, in any case, no matter who the 12th team would be." Regardless, Duke's stance may be inconsequential in the long run, as was proven in July when Duke and North Carolina's dissent was outvoted by the rest of the ACC in inviting Miami and Virginia Tech.

Still, the prospect of inviting Notre Dame--which is independent in football, but is a Big East member in every other sport--is in preliminary stages. According to The Observer, the ACC's attempts to lure the South Bend, Ind., school have revolved around a partial ACC membership identical to its Big East membership that would go into effect within the next two years. However, this agreement is qualified with a pair of options: Either Notre Dame must schedule three ACC games in football per season, or it must "commit to becoming a full football member within a certain timeframe, most likely within the next decade," The Observer reported.

Keohane admitted that Notre Dame was considered for expansion during the ACC's initial expansion, which eventually lured football powers Virginia Tech and Miami from the Big East in July. "Throughout the expansion process last year, the possibility of including Notre Dame was always on the table as an attractive 'dark horse' option for many members of the ACC, given their high-quality stature in both academics and athletics," Keohane wrote. "The problem is that they have a special unilateral arrangement for football and there's no indication that they would want to change this, and they reaffirmed this when any overtures were made to them [this past summer], by the ACC or anybody else."

Notre Dame's Associate Athletic Director, John Heisler, echoed Keohane's assertion in a telephone interview with The Chronicle Wednesday evening.

"I think we've made it plain that we as an institution value our independence in football," he said. "I don't think there's any sense that we are reevaluating our position.... We feel like the significant factors in the marketplace don't seem to suggest that we need to change what we're doing at this point--from ticket sales to scheduling to exposure. If those things go south, then maybe [we've] got to rethink some of this."

Notre Dame has perhaps the richest football tradition in America, and as a result has developed a considerable fan base that has afforded it lucrative deals with NBC and the Bowl Championship Series. However, both of these deals expire in 2005, presumably boosting the ACC's chances that it could bring Notre Dame into the fold. But even if the ACC successfully acquires Notre Dame, there is no guarantee the Fighting Irish will become a football-playing member--as was the case when Notre Dame joined the Big East in 1995--thereby denying the ACC a conference football championship game, which was the impetus for expansion in the first place.

Indeed, when asked about the probability of Notre Dame becoming a football constituent in any conference--the Big 10 has publicly courted Notre Dame within the past five years as well--Heisler alluded to the school's recent experience in the Big East.

"We tried to get the point across from the beginning of our relationship with [the Big East]...that [there was a belief that] all of a sudden we were going to be ready to bring our football program in, so don't agree to this if that's your assumption," Heisler said. In any event, the ACC seems to be running out of options in its attempt to stage a conference championship in football because of the NCAA's refusal to modify its rules, a decision that was disclosed by Clemson athletic director Terry Don Phillips to the Anderson (S.C.) Independent-Mail newspaper. Consequently, Notre Dame is maintaining all of its options.

"I don't think we want to bury our heads in the sand here, we're well aware of all the things that are going on..." Heisler said. "We can't make some iron-clad guarantee that we're going to survive and be an independent for the next 100 years, because that wouldn't be prudent."

_________________
The Bear may be dead but he still hates Tennessee. Roll Damn Tide

The South Bend Tribune weighs in: http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2003/09/25/sports.20030925-sbt-MICH-B1-Will_ACC_landscape_i.sto

September 25, 2003
Will ACC landscape include Notre Dame?
By TOM NOIE
Tribune Staff Writer

SOUTH BEND -- News regarding the Atlantic Coast Conference and its desire for an annual conference championship football game has again unwrapped whispers that sat silent since early summer.

Clemson University athletic director Terry Don Phillips told the Anderson (S.C) Independent Mail on Tuesday that the NCAA has informally rejected the league's request for a championship game beginning in 2004.

Miami (Fla.) and Virginia Tech will both bolt the Big East next fall for the ACC to give the league 11 teams. NCAA rules mandate that conferences must have at least 12 members for a championship game, which is often worth as much as $10 million in additional revenue.

"I think (adding a 12th team) would be where we need to go, if in fact we want the championship game," Phillips is quoted as saying.

Some insist that the 12th team should be Notre Dame.

Others hypothesize that the Irish will join the ACC in all sports, with the promise to play a handful of conference games before coming aboard as a full-fledged football member in the coming years.

While a new round of rumors makes its way through Dixie and up the Atlantic seaboard, Notre Dame athletic director Kevin White remains silent on the subject. White simply believes that there is no news worthy of his words.

"We aren't going to comment on this situation until something becomes official relative to Notre Dame," said associate athletic director John Heisler.

White has indicated through university statements relative to conference affiliation that his wish is for Notre Dame to remain in the Big East, a relationship that dates back to 1995.

Notre Dame's head coaches have also chosen not to comment on this situation.

On Wednesday, the Charlotte (N.C.) Observer reported that the ACC has held discussions with Notre Dame regarding conference affiliation. The story quotes anonymous sources as saying league commissioner John Swofford has "expressed a willingness" to adding Notre Dame within the next two years.

Bringing the Notre Dame football program into a league, be it for partial or full membership, is a topic not yet open to dialogue.

"That's not a priority at this point," Heisler said. "But Kevin would be the first to agree that that might not make sense for ever and ever."

As for the foreseeable future?

"We've been inclined to keep the football aspect of our athletic program status quo," Heisler said. "Our alumni and fans feel very strongly about that."

An open offer from Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese to bring Notre Dame football aboard full-time has stood for years. The commissioner admitted in early July that the possibility of Notre Dame ever joining his league was but a dream.

Big East school presidents are scheduled to meet on Nov. 4. At that time, Tranghese could unveil expansion plans, which would likely include invitations extended to Cincinnati, DePaul, Louisville and Marquette.

The four would give the Big East 16 schools -- eight that play football, eight others that don't.

Even that plan is open to plenty of possibilities. With Miami's departure, the league may prefer to maintain a presence in Florida, which adds Central Florida and South Florida as options.

"It's just so darn complicated," Heisler said. "It's not a simple thing."

Staff writer Tom Noie:
tnoie@sbtinfo.com
(574) 235-6153

I don't think this statement is particularly fair regarding the Big 10, and can only be said in the delusional eyes of Irish fans. I don't see much to be ashamed of in finish fourth or fifth behind the likes of Michigan, OSU, PSU, Iowa and Wisconsin, schools with large-huge programs and respectable traditions. The Big 10 is, and always will be, among the best 3 conferences, particularly with ND included. They'll travel and bring TV support, only raising the standard higher. (he said to the choir...)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/story/120450p-108484c.html

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Big East, ACC chase big prize - Notre Dame
BY CRAIG BARNES
South Florida Sun-Sentinel

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - (KRT) - Big East Conference presidents will meet Nov. 4 and vote on a final reorganization plan for the conference, and it is the deadline for Notre Dame to make its intentions clear.

With that in mind, the Atlantic Coast Conference has re-opened exploratory conversations with the Irish to see if there is a scenario that is acceptable to both sides that would allow the school to become the conference's 12th team.

The ACC's Council of Presidents held a conference call Friday and discussed the Notre Dame situation. The members participating in the call endorsed conversations with the Irish.

"The Olympic sports are important to Notre Dame, and the ACC provides a stable home for them," one source said, "but resolution of the football question is the biggest issue. Notre Dame wants to remain independent, and the ACC wants full participation membership. There may or may not be a resolution. That's what the conversations are about."

The first contact between the ACC and Notre Dame occurred over a year ago. Notre Dame closely monitored the recent ACC expansion. Notre Dame has an exclusive contract with NBC that pays the Irish more than $8 million annually to televise its home games.

The money and Notre Dame's commitment to a national schedule are obstacles to a compromise. Notre Dame needs schedule space for Southern California, Michigan, Purdue, the military academies and perhaps Michigan State and Boston College.

Several scenarios are under consideration. One would have the Irish join the ACC in all sports but football, with the conference having the right of first refusal if Notre Dame decided to abandon its independent football status in the future.

The Irish also could agree to play four or five ACC games, not qualify for the league championship and retain all of its football money while agreeing to get no share of the ACC's basketball money.

If Notre Dame would agree to play six ACC games, the league could reduce the number of conference games needed to qualify for the championship game from eight to six, making Notre Dame a full-participating member and leaving the distribution of money to be resolved.

The ACC's petition to the NCAA for a championship game in 2004 with only 11 teams was informally rejected by the championship committee, increasing the urgency for the conference to get a 12th team. A final decision is not expected on the proposal until April.

Notre Dame is adding 64 scholarships to its non-revenue sports programs over the next four years, but in an effort to find them a home, Athletic Director Kevin White would like to leave football out of the equation.

In the Big East reorganization, Notre Dame, Villanova, St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul and Marquette would be basketball-only schools. Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College and perhaps UCF or USF would play football. Central Florida or South Florida would play only football.

When the new Bowl Championship Series contract is instituted in 2007, Notre Dame's situation won't change much. The Irish automatically qualify with nine victories. It could lose the "automatic" status, but as one bowl source said, "Who wouldn't take Notre Dame with nine wins?"

---

© 2003 South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

Visit the Sun-Sentinel on the World Wide Web athttp://www.sun-sentinel.com

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welcome back kingcal its been along time how are things. It seems things are lighting up like baghdad after night.

_________________
The Bear may be dead but he still hates Tennessee. Roll Damn Tide

Gunnerfan, there has to be tremendous pressure these days on Notre Dame to be . . . well, NOTRE DAME. Willingham, his entire coaching staff, the entire Athletic Dept., & the Notre Dame football establishment must be feeling this pressure. What makes it even more acute is the question of negotiations with NBC coming up for negotiation in another year or so & the question of exactly what Notre Dame's status with the BCS will be, this coming up for discussion at the same time as the NBC negotiations. With each additional loss, the pressure mounts.

To live up to the Notre Dame myth, the team must compete for the national championship each year - not by playing in the championship bowl itself every year, but by being a factor for most of the season, by being in contention. As the article points out, that hasn't happened for a long time. And it's not happening now. Last year was a good year for Willingham only because it showed that he had turned the program around. It was supposed to be a springboard to something even more positive. Now the faithful are being asked to wait a little longer . . . once again. That is the sound of those TV sets being switched off & the NBC deal slipping away . . . & with it, Notre Dame's unique position with the BCS.

I think that the author of the Daily News article has a good point. If Notre Dame joins the ACC or Big Ten & becomes what Penn State has become, it would be nothing to be ashamed about, as you have so aptly pointed out. The problem is it what not be NOTRE DAME. The myth would be dead, the emperor would have no clothes, the Wizard of Oz would be exposed.
Perhaps going to a leaguewith BCS status & national media where they can continue to dominate would be preferable for Notre Dame - both the school & the myth.

If Notre Dame was in the Big 10 this would be maybe the Best Conference in the country surpassing my beloved SEC.

_________________
The Bear may be dead but he still hates Tennessee. Roll Damn Tide

So which Northeast paper is that from?

Now it's getting funny:
Midwest papers "prove" Big 10 is best for ND
Northeast papers "prove" Big East is best for ND
Have we found Southeast papers "proving" the ACC is best for ND?

It would be a phenomenal football conference footballgod, but right now (unless Quinn is the answer at qb) ND might turn into Northwestern in the Big 10, then lose their coach and be starting at zero in football. I think they know their football program has been too shaky for too long to hop into such a deep, physical conference with so many loud tough road games before crowds well in excess of 80K. As much as I'd like them in the ACC, I'm still astonished that they won't hop into the Big East right now, make their own deal, soften their schedule a bit and give the football program some breathing room. They could easily recover with a year of success, but right now their are courting total disaster.

Well spoken, as usual FriarFan. One thing that truly gets my goat regarding the ND/Conference issue is this:
The hubris among northeasterners, who would (regrettably) monopolize Catholicism in the country if given the chance, is their feeling of entitlement to ND as a displaced bastion of Yankee values and ingenuity. Conversely, the hubris among ND leaders is thier sense of entitlement to a place of seperate and higher esteem in the world of college athletics because of their religious virtues and missions. Ever inexorably intertwined yet unable to fully come together. What they can't see from their vantage points is how these stances are insults to the Big 10 and the BE schools as invariably "not good enough for ND yet not capable of prospering without ND!" I feel particularly sad for the BE schools, who deserve much better.

I'm firmly in the camp that if ND were to play conference football it should be in the Big 10. With that, the conference, already among the premier entities in all of American sport, would become so much more storied and legendary. It would succeed in the long term for all parties much as the SEC expansion with Arkansas and South Carolina has succeeded. It amazes me that ND can't/won't see that.

Enough is enough, people. In or out, and let's move on.

i agree with you gunnerfan. notre dame is an excellent school and they belong in the big 10. but if the money is there then how can you refuse?

Yes, Yes, Yes... ;D ;D ;D

All one has to do is move over to a ND board and read some of the "holier than thou" tripe that gets spewed. If you comment negative you are among the "haters" who are "unpatriotic and godless". The arrogance is nauseating... :P

The irony is (and has been continuously noted on this board) that ND has the opportunity to continue this behavior in the BigEast, if they join (for allsports including FOOTBALL). If they don't they could get left out of the BCS altogether sometime down the line...and hopefully in my lifetime... ;)
8-)

Well said, Gunnerfan. Just as Miami ultimately belonged in a Southern conference, so too does Notre Dame belong in the Big Ten. Stanford is a fine role model for them - excellent academics & excellent athletics (including Olympic sports) in a conference that is 80% state schools.