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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:52 pm 

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I agree with LSUtootnanny on this one. Didn't the SEC have to split Auburn/Alabama to go geographic?



Alabama and Auburn are both in the SEC's Western Division along with Ark., LSU, MSU, and Ole Miss. The SEC's divisions are geographically based for the most part. Same with B12, though it is north/south rather than east/west.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:03 pm 
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If the SEC went by actual lines of longitude, VU would be in the West and AU would be in the East (AU is actually closer to the average East school than they are to the average West school), but the SEC decided not to split in-state rivals.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:06 am 
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agreed. I thought for a minute that Nashville was on EST and Auburn was on CST, but according to UniversalMap of the U.S., both cities are on CST.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:23 am 
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From what I have read, the real reason is that FSU and Miami insisted. They want to play but don't want to compete with each other for a division title. FSU is afraid of having Miami just as they were afraid of joining the SEC. They want something they can dominate.

I would like to comment on this really quick. When have Miami & FSU met, for the most part? I know there are exceptions to every rule, but on average, what date have they played on a fairly consistent basis? Second week of October, correct?? Look when F$U wants the game played now. In September. IMO, they are taking a page out of UF's book now. UF won't play Tennessee late in the year because of the following:
1.) it has/had the potential to destroy their BCS aspirations, if there were any to begin with.
2). Such a matchup would have a bearing on the critical UF/F$U matchup down the road.
All of this despite the fact that UF vs Tennessee is a very good SEC rivalry.
IMO, I think F$U has similar reasons for rescheduling the Miami game, although it should NOT be rescheduled, IMO.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's only a matter of time before Bobby Bowden retires.


Quote:


I suspect the silliness of their divisions will eventually lead them to go geographic. IMO the correct geographic division would be Duke, WF, GT, Clemson, FSU, Miami. Duke and WF offset the two FL schools.

Not necessarily, bullet. Geographically, UNC, Duke, and NCSU are all close to each other. Duke does place much less of an emphasis on football than UNC or NCSU does though, and this is why a lot of UNC-Duke football games wind up looking like Tennessee vs Vanderbilt. IMO, Duke & Wake should end their seasons against each other, but Duke doesn't want to do that, because they're still living in their football past.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:03 pm 
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The 4 NC schools are interchangeable. I only put Duke and Wake in the South because they are traditionally the weakest in fb, while Miami and FSU are the 2 biggest powers. Also, UNC has a long time rivalry with UVA. Its been a long time since WF won an ACC title and a very long time since Duke won an ACC title w/o Steve Spurrier as coach (of course, Florida has never won an SEC title without Spurrier as coach). Geographically, they may be slightly north of UNC and NCSU.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:41 pm 
My comment was "generally geographic", which it indeed is. Further, in the SEC as with some others, there are same state schools that play each other for the final regular season game i. e. Vandy-Tenn; Auburn-Ala; Miss State-Ole Miss. With a conference championship game a week or two later, and with the desire to lure an attraction with maximum interest (plus getting a couple who may have not met during the regular season, at least not late), practicality suggests the current arrangement in divisions.
When the SEC rotation first came out, Auburn did have a bit of a problem with it. They wanted to maintain "every year" games with Georgia and Florida.
Later, a couple of years ago, when the SEC dropped the "two permanents" in the other division, to "one other division permanent", with more frequency for other division rotation, Auburn maintained Georgia as the permanent, but dropped Florida. It happened with each of the others----South Carolina maintains Arkansas while Mississippi State was the permanent drop.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:44 pm 
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I think it is still very difficult to compare the SEC and even the Big 12 to the ACC for geographic reasons. The SEC does not have four schools in one state. The big 12 does have 4 schools in Texas, but everyone else is North and makes for easy division. The ACC has broken into two divisions based on current strength and will evaluate it again in two years. Splitting Duke and Wake is as equally fair as splitting FSU and Miami. I just looked at my school's home schedule for next year and it's Miami, Florida State, Wake Forest, Ga Tech, Ohio State, and Navy! That is definitely worth the price of admission. We play at Clemson, UNC Chapel Hill (partner), Maryland, and Va Tech on the road. East Carolina is scheduled for Charlotte for now. Personally, I love the structure.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:22 am 
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Ah, when I read this thread I get wistful. Count your blessings youu ACC fans that you can actually be having this delightful kind of divisional lineup discussion based on reality rather than speculation...

How I wish we were at the state of such interesting discussions with the BigTeleven...

:-/



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:00 am 

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I think it is still very difficult to compare the SEC and even the Big 12 to the ACC for geographic reasons. The SEC does not have four schools in one state. The big 12 does have 4 schools in Texas, but everyone else is North and makes for easy division. The ACC has broken into two divisions based on current strength and will evaluate it again in two years. Splitting Duke and Wake is as equally fair as splitting FSU and Miami. I just looked at my school's home schedule for next year and it's Miami, Florida State, Wake Forest, Ga Tech, Ohio State, and Navy! That is definitely worth the price of admission. We play at Clemson, UNC Chapel Hill (partner), Maryland, and Va Tech on the road. East Carolina is scheduled for Charlotte for now. Personally, I love the structure.


I concur with you SPM. However, the rivalries would be even more intense if West Virginia was picked rather than BC. I like BC OK, but really view them a bit far away for immediate intensity. West Virgina vs Va Tech (see what happened earler this week!). WVU is a natural with UVA and Md too. I would expect games between WVU and NCSU, Clemson, and GA Tech would draw very well, with a lot of traveling fans. Oh well, did not happen!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:13 am 

Quote:


How I wish we were at the state of such interesting discussions with the BigTeleven...

:-/



Could it be Javaman, that the BigTeleven is grudingly unwilling to admit that they could be even more lucrative if they weren't hiding their sulking having been jilted by the Irish? It is strange that the B10(11) and the Big East act as brides in their torn, yellowed, wedding dresses, staring at the rat infested cake, occasionally peeping out the window for the ND groom to show--------but it has been twenty years.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:57 pm 
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More weakness will be felt more next year with the ACC having 12 teams.

If Miami and FSU were in the same conference this year and were to meet in a predictable conference championship game, both could be eliminated from a possible championship game. A Miami loss late in the season would almost keep both out this year as currently USC and Oklahoma would meet for the championship game with a Miami loss.

Miami would have a hard time beating FSU twice in the same year.

If FSU would lose another game to Miami, an at large bid would be hard to justify for FSU with two loses to the same team.

Texas is a prime example of how 12 team conference don't always benefit everyone.

Lets wait a couple of years to see if Miami and FSU like what they have created in the new ACC.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:08 am 
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Good points made on this thread--have just been laying back appreciating...

My own random observations on ACC future. ACC will evolve much more to status such as Big10, SEC, and PAC10, where nothing is ever a given anymore. Any team will have the opportunity to knock of any other team, and Miami, FSU, VT, will no longer have a cakewalk to BCS.

Unlikely lower-tier teams will rise up and have amazing seasons to muddle everything up like Northwestern does every five years or so in the Big10. Good candidates might be WakeForest (beating Clemson last night), and of course BC, which will be sort of like Purdue, always on the verge of greatness, always a very interesting team to meet. Will Georgia Tech ever recover its old football glory, or is its presence in the ACC as tough a road as PSU in the Big10?

Equality and Parity will be the givens, just like the Big10, PAC10, and SEC. Welcome to being a normal conference, ACC. Welcome to the world where people will criticise you for being a weak conference simply because there is now a true gauntlet of awesome and intimidating and unpredictable teams to meet every Saturday. Welcome to the world of football greatness!


Last edited by javaman on Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:14 pm 
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Quote:

Will Georgia Tech ever recover its old football glory, or is its presence in the ACC as tough a road as PSU in the Big10?



Speaking as a Georgia fan, Tech has had numerous opportunities to really bring back its long lost football glory (back when UGa & GT both were pretty high in the polls, and UF & FSU were afterthoughts), but turned them down in favor of attempting to be the "MIT" of the South. GT likes to think of itself as a "public ivy" now, and that means that they are very selective when accepting their students, including their athletes. And, as much as I hate to say it, there aren't too many really intelligent athletes out there. And GT is going after those really intelligent students. The ones that just missed out on going to Harvard or Princeton, but don't want to go to Buffalo or NC State.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:21 am 
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Quote:
Speaking as a Georgia fan...

Gasp! I hardly knew ye! Are you thus both a UGA fan and Tech fan?!! Doesn't that mean dismissal from the DawgNation?!

(Note: I spent Saturday afternoon in delivery ward with a family of die-hard Dawg fans who sacrificed their trip to the C0cktail Party when one daughter went into labor. A healthy baby boy, a very unhealthy UGA offense. I'd pegged the Dawgs to win and cover, easy. ??? )

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I think the ACC is on the road to becoming a better version of the Big 10's or SEC's little brother. Will never(?) equal the average attendance or overall scope of unity, but will come pretty close as there are now more schools involved that fit the mold. This optimist's vision:
- More consistency in near-capacity crowds and raucus fan support
- Clemson steps up to join FSU and VT as SEC-like football programs. Maryland close behind. (Hey, roughly 40K students! DC/Baltimore!)
- UNC, GT and UVA: Solid enough to win the non-conference games and always be threats at home
- Duke should strive to make Wake the bottom of the barrel. Larger school, better travel/market conditions to fill the stands. They just haven't been trying as hard as, say, Stanford.



Last edited by gunnerfan on Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:29 am 
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Quote:

Gasp! I hardly knew ye! Are you thus both a UGA fan and Tech fan?!! Doesn't that mean dismissal from the DawgNation?!

Not quite. ;) ;D I've always wanted to see Tech compete with us like in days of yore, because it makes our rivalry more special and more visible to the media. Beating bad Tech teams doesn't really excite me that much. :P The state's board of regents holds Tech back, as well as UGa now. ::) The board of regents just loves President Mike Adams whereas the UGa campus wants to be rid of him ASAP!!! The state board of regents has the power and wins out. >:(
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