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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:33 am 
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The board of regents just loves President Mike Adams whereas the UGa campus wants to be rid of him ASAP!!! The state board of regents has the power and wins out. >:(
(- - - - - - - - - - -

Well said. I'm sorry this has become the fiasco it has been, as the students, professors et al, all suffer while attention is directed to petty politics rather than legit work.

I noticed the .com bowl projections have all listed LSU as the SEC rep, now. Seems odd to me, as I can't see them beating UGA or UF in the Dome. Course, now the Dawgs must scrap past Auburn. Best of luck to ya!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:02 am 
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Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss the sound of the air running out of the the ACC football expansion plans.

If the Big East trio (all lost yesterday) were playing in the ACC with a championship game this year, the loser would have no less than 3 losses.

The new ACC would not come close to getting an at large BCS bid.

Splitting 15 million dollars between 12 teams versis 9 teams. Losing revenue should be considered a weakness.




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:30 am 
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Now, now, Lash. You know this is more than a one year deal.

a) They're not in the ACC right now, so if anything the BE is the loser here in that it could've had 2 BCS schools this season;

b) There're more bowls and bowl money to be had than just the BCS;

c) The ACC wasn't counting on having 2 BCS schools every year. They'll have a chance to do it some other year, a chance, I might add, that seems certainly better than the BE;

d) It's as much about recruiting, fannies in the seats, TV and merchandizing and in that end the ACC has still made an upgrade. The ACC ain't the Big 10, but it doesn't need to be.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:21 pm 
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Gunnerfan, it is funny how the pre season hype all but had Miami and Va Tech competing in the ACC. ACC expansion had become the best thing since the invention of slice bread. Maryland, Virginia, NC State, FSU along with Miami and Va Tech were going to make the ACC the greatest football conference in history.

Now that Va Tech and Miami have two loses each and possibly more, lets not bring them back into the Big East. Every lose that Miami, Va Tech, and BC have you can bet reflects more on the future ACC.

Regardless, ther is no way the Big East would get two BCS bids this year. Pitt or WVU are both primed to get the Big East bid by winning on the field. This is the greatest possible thing that could have happened to the new Big East.

If Pitt and Miami tie, the BE can in good faith pick the team its wants in the BCS.

I am a Miami fan, however, see the disadvantage of playing in a 12 team conference. Miami clearly had a road to the BCS every year and this year they may not make the Gator Bowl. If they did, how many fans will show up. Same hold true for a new conference championship game.

All the hype in the world is not going to change the new ACC dismisal season this year including newbies Miami, Va Tech, and Boston College. This will set the stage for the new ACC as a starting point regardless of how much the southern media hypes up the ACC.

The future is based on the present at least in college football. That is why it is so important to start off on the right foot in the polls.

Ageed that time will tell if the ACC is better with the new format, however, this year, it does not look good for the immediate future.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:58 pm 
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Lash, I keep forgetting you're a Miami fan (don't ask me why, I just do.) Sorry about the weekend. I've been mostly a Miami basher since the days of the thug image and "Catholics vs. Convicts" stuff. (Not an Irish fan, either, though. ;) ) But have greatly appreciated the turn around and have been rooting for them to do well. Particularly against any SEC foes. For the life of me, I would never have pegged Miami to lose the way they did. I watched the game and still can't make any sense of it. Here's to hoping WVU will help put their BCS destiny back into Miami's hands.

And I also agree that a 12 member conference has it's disadvantages, but I've also found things about other configurations that I persoanlly don't like, so it feels like a trade off for me. Two questions for you, as a Hurricane fan:

1) How would you rate the "fickle" nature of Canes fans? a) Fans from few schools are perfect in this regard, and b) heaven knows Miami had been through quite the turmoil during the late 90's, but some friends have grown concerned about Miami fans being largely bandwagon types, and that once their school is out of the running attendance will plummet. I'm curious to see how you rate the Hurricane faithful.

2) Can you see the ACC developing, although to a different scale, an SEC-type of hype and following? One thing ACC fans have loathed about the football season is the ability to provide a big match-up every week, at least due in part to shear numbers. Looking at the Saturday papers, there'll be listings for at least 5 Big 10 match-ups and 5-6 SEC match-ups, with multiple Top 25 schools, conference title ramifications, etc. The hope is that with at least 2 more football schools that can change, and the listing of ACC match-ups will always have one quality game each week. And yes, I know a lot of this stems from on field play. I'm thinking about atmosphere, right now.

I'm truly disappointed with the ACC's out of conference performance this year, particularly the Maryland-NIU loss, Wake-Purdue, UNC-Arizona & Syracuse and Duke-Northwestern. The league won't earn true credibility until those losses don't happen so regularly.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm 
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After watching FSU, Va Tech, and Miami all lose, our take on Tobacco Road is that maybe we aren't so far behind these football powers after all! In fact, NCSU can win the ACC if we win out! Overall, the ACC expansion continues to be about separating into super-conferences where every member fields a balanced athletic program that includes bigtime football and basketball. Even the CUSA schools see the writing on the wall, and UNCC and St Louis are now joining up with their basketball only brothers. The Big East should have taken that step too. I'm not sure if the BE can leverage the basketball for the football on tv deals, but the facts are that the other five conferences don't have to do that. That's the bottom line.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:11 pm 
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Statepackman, with your assessement, what happened to the MAC after expansion to 12 teams. The MAC is not bad in basketball and other sports. Shoud not the 12 team concept produced a national MAC champion by now.

The Big 10 did it last year with 11 teams. Maybe 11 teams are considered a super conference.

The Pac 10 will get a chance this year if USC does not fall.

Don't buy the super conference concept. You ACC fans a brain washed by the SEC. Next we will be comparing your academics to the SEC.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:22 am 
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Before Florida State joined the ACC they were a lot better than they are now. Pre ACC who would have ever thought of them losing games like they are now to teams that are not even in their league status wide like Clemson, UNC, NC State, and Virginia. People always say that Fla ST has improved the ACC, IMO i think the ACC actually brought tem down. Hopefully the same happens to Miami and Va Tech. Florida State would have been better off in the SEC.


Last edited by arpmany on Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:10 am 
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There are an awful lot of haters and alarmists on this board. I have to admit, whenever the HOKIES lose a game, it hurts. I know that the players hurt worse and in the end it is just a game.

Just because Virginia Tech, Miami, and Florida State lost this weekend does not mean that they are finished as good programs. Each of those teams is 7-2, not bad. The ACC is going to be just fine with these three programs along with Virginia, North Carolina State, Maryland, etc.

I realize that this is a place to share ideas and express concerns. I would just say to keep some of this in perspective.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:29 pm 
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The MAC rating of football and basketball does not compare to the BCS conferences. How many MAC teams went to the Orange, Sugar, and Rose in the 1970s, 80s or 90s, before the BCS? How about WAC or any other non-BCS conference members in these bowls? Access is better today than ever. The NCAA basketball tournament gives a mid-major the opportunity to win it's conference tourney, then six consectutive games against "BCS" type schools and a national championship. That has not happened in my lifetime, but their is access. The facts are that the pundits who beg for a playoff, must realize the BCS 12 team conferences actually give you a playoff with a champion that represents you in the BCS. Reality is starting to set in that the BCS is better than nothing at all and that access is available for a team like TCU as long as they are winning. No. Illinois played into and then out of the BCS Bowls. The BCS was created exactly for years like this, to sort out the top teams for the best possible matchups. There are very few schools that fund football and men's basketball to the highest degree. The new ACC simply joins "like" schools together. Maybe our Duke and UNC are Vanderbilt and Kentucky. Maybe our Miami and FSU are Oklahoma and Texas. All that matters is there are three conferences with 12, one with 11, and one with 10 that are uniquely different that everyone else. That is not much fun if you are Syracuse or Colorado State, but that is simply stating a fact. Hopefully, another conference MWC or a a split BE will step up and become the sixth super conference, but I believe the longterm survivial of a solid Division 1-A program requires a "super" conference. If the ACC has no other BCS-deserving representative other than it's champion, then the at large spot should go to someone else.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:25 pm 
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BCHokie/StatePackman, I don't think the post on this thread or others reflect haters or alarmist. Agreed the players and coaches are not making decisions on expansion and should not be subjected to any abuse in post or on the field.

On the flip side, the ACC can not ignore that a lot of fans have been hurt over the raid to the BE that goes way behond the BE football teams.

In fact the ACC may not be the blame as much as all the conferences that prevent a true national championship playoff like all normal sports.

Expanding to 12 teams with championships games is no subtitute for a true playoff.

There are limitations to 12 team formats. Texas is a great example. The last few years having to win over Oklamoma to get to the championship game. If Texas received an at large bid to a true playoff and did not have to face hated rival Oklamhoma a second time, the schools may have a championship trophy for football. This is just one example of the down side of 12 team conferences. There are many more expamples.

As for putting like teams together. BC on tobacco road?Everyone has a different interpretation of definition of like teams. Division 1A to me are like teams.

I do not hate the ACC and may in time support the conference with Miami included. I am after all an old SEC fan and not sure how much you can support a rival conference that is in your own area. Maimi was an exception.

I do hate the fact that the ACC thought or believed they needed the raid on the BE to ensure long term stability because of the limits of the BCS.

I like the BCS. It just has not went far enough with a complete playoff.

If we had a playoff and the ACC would have remained with 9 and the BE football schools split and formed a 9 team all sports conference. The same benefits could have been acheived without all the mess of expanding with 12 teams.

If BE champion Va Tech faces ACC champion FSU in a 16 team playoff, the importance of the game would oveshadowed a made for TV conference championship game.

Of course the ACC expansion is water under the bridge and a playoff is not close to becomming a reality.

We are left with good schools not in the so called big 5 that have spend millions on football just trying to survive.

As a lifetime college football fan, this is not my idea of a good thing.

Take it from pro baseball, the sport can not exist without the fans.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:35 pm 
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BCHokie, I agree that ACC football will be just fine. What the new members will bring as much as anything is tradition & an enthusiasm for football.

IMO, the Florida State decline began a few years ago - & it has been inevitable. Like Joe paterno, Bobby Bowden can't continue to get it done forever. Virgina Tech can anticipate similar problems somewhere down the road when age catches up with Beamer.

Miami is the one program that can expect to continue to have sucess as they have built a program that is bigger than its coaches over the past 20 years. Success seems to run in cycles as top programs decline & new ones emerge - with few exceptions. The big change in the ACC IMO is that there are now a critical mass of schools in the league that think of themselves as football schools so the programs will flourish together & success will breed more success.


Last edited by friarfan on Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:37 pm 
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arpmany,

how many national titles did fsu win in the 45 years before it joined the acc? zero.

in the next 10 years, it won two and was in the title game two other times, losing to tennessee and oklahoma. in the five years before joining, they had lost games to auburn, southern miss and clemson, not to mention miami and/or florida state.

to say that fsu was better before joining the acc isn't accurate. what is accurate is to say that after thoroughly dominating the acc for NINE YEARS (29-0 in its first 3 1/2 years, 70-2 in conference in the first nine years), the acc has started to close the gap. even so, they are 18-4 the last 3 years vs. the acc.

what is a better explanation is that the acc has aggressively upgraded its coaching, taking former nfl head coaches (groh, gailey) and top assistants (amato, friedgen) who know how to scheme them. the addition of fsu to the acc has also opened the state of florida to recruiting for the other 8 schools, which has been a boon for recruiting. and don't forget the cut to 85 scholarships was instituted in the meatime, which leveled the playing field for everybody. so the guy who would have sat on the bench for 2 years as a redshirt or third teamer learning bowden's system is now starting for virginia, nc state or clemson and matures on the field as opposed to on the sidelines.

the addition of miami and vt will not make that much more of a difference because the acc has established itself as a top conference in its own right. they'll just make it top-heavy like the sec or big xii (most years).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:49 pm 
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The NCAA basketball tournament gives a mid-major the opportunity to win it's conference tourney, then six consectutive games against "BCS" type schools and a national championship. That has not happened in my lifetime, but their is access. The facts are that the pundits who beg for a playoff, must realize the BCS 12 team conferences actually give you a playoff with a champion that represents you in the BCS.


StatePackMan, I don't know how old you are, but if you are old enough to be in college, there are non-BCS schools who have won the NCAA basketball tournament in your lifetime - although maybe not in your memory. Georgetown in '84, Villanova in '85, Louisville in '86, UNLV in '90, & UConn in '99.

But I really have to take issue with your statement that 12 team conferences actually give you a play-off in the BCS. The key part of the word "play-off" is PLAY. You can't have a play-off when teams don't play to get to the finals. At the end of the season, 2 teams are simply SELECTED to play a championship game based on the opinions of pollsters or the calculations of computers. No one actually had to rise to the occasion on the field to get to the next level. This is better than pre-BCS days when a championship was simply awarded after the bowls. A true championship can't be awarded; it must be earned.



Last edited by friarfan on Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:00 pm 
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Friarfan, agreed 12 team conferences are no substitute for a true college football playoff.

A couple more points on why non ACC fans dislike the ACC expansion.

The SEC expanded to 12 basically providing Alabama/Auburn winner a championhship opponent. At the time those two schools were very good.

The SEC did not raid any conference as the SWC was failling apart and South Carolina football was independent.

Same hold true for the Big 10 with Penn State.

The Big 12 just expanded for survival especially concerning Texas.

The ACC did not have to expand. This fact is not going to go away very quickly if ever.

Every time the ACC has a bad week like the previous week, the conference will be subjected to finger pointing.

It going to take a long time for the ACC to gain back its national respect and this has nothing to do with how the conference performs on the field or bb court.



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