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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:17 pm 
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TS2,

Agreed, I don't disagree with that. My posts are about what could happen in the future. The Big East took the three best teams available at the time. Moving a team up from 1-AA when they made that decision last year was not an option. But over a longer period of time it could be an option with some planning, that is if the Big East would like to expand.

Lash,

I agree with all those teams except UCF. The one thing not mentioned or considered here is academics. Among of the 8 that will be in the Big East next year, 7 of the members are either 2nd or 3rd Tier National Universities in USNWR. Only one that isn't is U Louisville. But U Louisville has shown that it can be in the 3rd Tier, as it has been in previous rankings of USNWR.

With that, there are 4 2nd Tier National Universities with Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, and UConn, 3 3rd Tier National Universities with WVU, U Cincy and USF, and U Louisville the only 4th Tier National University, but has demonstrated to be a 3rd Tier.

Fordham and UMass would be excellent academic additions in your scenario, as they are both 2nd Tier National Universities. Temple is a 3rd Tier National University, so that's okay, and they were once a prestigious private U before the Commonwealth of PA bought them up and made them public. So that's a good addition from an academic standpoint.

UCF, however, is a 4th Tier National University, and I don't think it has ever been above that.

I would substitute U Delaware for UCF, as U Delaware is a 2nd Tier National University. It has the most of any of these speculated teams, with 20,000+ average attendance, and I think they can increase that.

I would definitely not include UCF, and I would include U Delaware and either with Temple or as a replacement to Temple. I realize that that takes the travel partner away from USF, but they could be Delaware's travel partner, or a replacement for Temple could either be Villanova or Miami, OH. Both are excellent academic institutions and Miami could be Cincy's travel partner and U Louisville could then be USF's travel partner, and Delaware would be Rutgers. With Villanova in instead, USF's partner would be U Delaware.

Other than that, Fordham would be great for NYC market, especially with a Big Apple Bowl and a new stadium to play in, and a great potential rival for Syracuse. UConn and UMass would be great potential rivalry.

Bottom line is that this scenario expands the Big East in the Northeast Footprint and makes a predominant geographic forefront for the conference for the purposes of promotion in the media and for its own geographic footprint for TV coverage.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:46 pm 
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sportsgeog, ok agreed on academic factor although FSU improved with move to ACC and UCF could add more emphases on academics.. Have some reservations about Delaware due to mid major status in all sports. UMass, Temple, Fordham are part of the A10, which is the best non BCS conference for bb and other sports.

BE North:
Syracuse - Fordham
UConn - UMass
Rutgers - Delaware

BE South:
Pitt - Temple
Cincinnati - Louisville
WVU - South Florida (Georgetown)

Basketball is a little stronger in the south division. No offense to South Florida as this school helps the NBE, however, a Georgetown upgrade as a replacement would be very interesting. The school could play in Redskins stadium and drive a panic through the ACC north division. WVU could drop Maryland and would help fill the stadium for at least one Georgetown game.




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:47 pm 
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I don't think they should create too much competition in the NE. The MAC was doing quite well as a 6 team conference in the mid-70s, but then added EMU, CMU, Ball St. and N. Illinois who all recruited the same area. It was 20 years before they had another ranked team. Too many teams dilutes the recruiting pool and spreads the media.

UMass, if they can make the jump, are a logical addition as they are a good sized university in what would now be a new market for the BE. Philadelphia is an important market and Temple can potentially be a big plus to a fb school BE. Villanova had their opportunity and decided not to move up. Being a relatively small private school in a pro sports town is not a recipe for success. I don't think Fordham could survive in NY. Rutgers is close enough to NY to get some media attention. Delaware certainly has one of the strongest I-AA programs out there, but I just don't think they add enough. They, IMO, have wisely been uninterested in moving up.

I don't think the BE could afford to have both a new I-A program like UMass and a weak one like Temple. They would need Temple to start winning and drawing better. That is why I think that after a split, they should go after one of those two and then ECU or Memphis, growing to 10, not immediately to 12.

Longer term, I think it makes sense to go to 12 and get a championship game with the resulting exposure. Politically, it seems likely that Pitt and WVU would want to be with SU. That would mean:
North
Syracuse
UConn
Pitt
WVU
Rutgers
New NE member-UMass or Temple

South
Cincinnati
Louisville
USF
ECU
Memphis
#12 (Temple, UCF, Marshall)

UMass, Temple, ECU and Memphis would make the best 4 (given that UMass and Temple could get their fb programs up to speed). There would be 3 strong bb programs. It wouldn't go too far out of the footprint. Temple would get stuck in the southern division for fb, which wouldn't be great for them, but it seems unlikely that Pitt and WVU would move to an Ohio Valley division.

Academically, ECU is not in the same category, but neither are any alternatives except for some MAC schools. I don't see the MAC schools adding enough market and having enough fan support. The only possibility I see there is Buffalo and they would first have to become a credible I-A program when they are still worse than most I-AA scholarship programs.

Marshall doesn't add any market. The only way I see WVU letting them in would be if they were the #12 school in a separate division from WVU. UCF adds a partner for USF, but it also forces more trips to Florida. With only USF, you don't have to go down there every year.

So, dominate but don't flood the NE and add a few strong programs on the periphery.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:58 pm 
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Sorry Bullet, like my 12 team conference alignment better. Everyone needs to forget about East Carolina as this school is lost in the ACC. I do agree with sportsgeog, the BE is Florida and everything from Ohio Valley and above. This has always been the case. Memphis most likely will never get the votes to join the BE as Central Florida has far more potential. Memphis will soon be competing with the upstart Grezzlies and is really in the heart of the SEC. It just a southern fantacy to want that type of alignment.

BE North:
Syracuse - Fordham
UConn - UMass
Rutgers - Delaware

BE South:
Pitt - Temple
Cincinnati - Louisville
WVU - South Florida (Georgetown


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:12 pm 
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^Actually, as far as academics, Memphis and ECU would both be 4th Tier National Universities according to USNWR. I don't think that The Big East should become the least of the BCS 6 as far as academics is concerned. Memphis is too buried in the SEC, and has a very unique geograhic region that is claims (justifiably so) to be the capital of, it called the "Mid South", with Tennessee -- mostly Western Tennessee, Arkansas, Northern Louisiana, and western Kentucky, and some near Ozark areas in southern Missouri and even eastern Oklahoma. Its also just north of the Mississippi Delta. This is not the Northeast Footprint, it is clear out of the Northeast footprint and really shouldn't be aligned with a team from Storrs, CT or New Bruswick, NJ, or for that matter Syracuse, NY. This is clearly migrating -- stretching that "Nomadic Amoeba" syndrome of conferences lately, ala Conference USA, the WAC, the Sun Belt and even the Mountain West. One "Outpost" in Florida is fine, but not one in the Mid-South near the Mississippi Delta and the Ozarks.

If you would like to know what happens when the "Nomadic Amoeba" gets migrated and stretched, look at the conferences after that happens, or even the historic Southern Conference before all teams broke into two conferences eventually (SEC, ACC) and that conference is a 1-AA conference. Or look what happen to the Missouri Valley Conference that used to align Louisville, Houston, New Mexico State and West Texas State.

The WAC was a near Bowl Alliance Conference and even in the 80's some compared the WAC just a hair below the ACC in football. Where is the WAC now? Still a vibrant conference, with 3 or 4 quality programs in Fresno, Boise, Hawaii and Nevada, and its mostly a Western Conference again, but gone are all the historic members except Hawaii and they are 3rd Tier in the west with the new MWC taking their place. They were that "Migrating Nomadic Amoeba" stretching from Honolulu to Houston, and guess what, a few of those teams got the nourishment from the Nomadic Amoeba and then abandoned it (TCU in particular, and now SMU, Tulsa, and Rice). The WAC is still a good conference, but they are the conference that people think today would be the first to disband of all 11 D-1A conferences if more realignment in the west, and they have been in existance for more than 40 years.

The Big East needs to maintain its Northeast Identity or it could oozze on down the road, with everyone wanting nourishment from its brand name that are located in far-flegged places, and where the conference can't be in the geographic forefront. Those wanting the identity and nourishment will only stay around until something better comes along, leaving the Nomadic Amoeba without the sufficient nourishment that it once provided to whatever teams it ends up with.

ECU, same thing, its in the middle of ACC.

As far as having that many teams, its only 1 per each of those states, except for NY and PA and both have the 3rd and 6th largests populations, so that's enough base to support that. More so than a 5th BCS team in NC or a 3rd BCS team in Tennessee.

Delaware has 800,000 raving Blue Hens that average 20,000+ per game, with the potential of that pop reaching 1 million by 2025. They are part of the Philly market. They are more optimal of a 1-AA team moving up as far as market than U Wyoming or U Montana.

Maybe these 4 teams could be gradually moved up over 5 to 10 years, after 5 to 10 years of the current 8-team makeup. The MAC is smaller in pop, + had OSU, U of M, MSU, PU and IU to compete with too. This NE conference doesn't have that except PSU and BC.


Last edited by sportsgeog on Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:28 pm 
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Academics Rutgers,Syracuseand Pitt are all AAU schools.These are the top research universities in the US and include the Ivy League,MIT,Cal Tech,Rice etc.They are the top tier of US universities ,not the second tier.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:49 pm 
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Quote:
Academics Rutgers,Syracuseand Pitt are all AAU schools.These are the top research universities in the US and include the Ivy League,MIT,Cal Tech,Rice etc.They are the top tier of US universities ,not the second tier.


Agreed, Syracuse, Rutgers, and Pitt are all members of the AAU. The only ones in the new 8-team Big East. The AAU also includes all 11 members of the Big 10, 7 of the members of the Big 12, 7 of the members of the Pac 10, I think 4 of the members of the ACC (might be more as I can't recall exactly who is and who isn't).

What I am referring to is the U.S. New and World Report Rankings as found on this page:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php

On that page they rank the top 126 National Universities, and they refer to this page as the "Top Schools", which is a name change. It used to be that the "Top Schools" were only found on page 1, and they were schools 1-50 -- here the lowest of the top 50 is the University of Florida. #51-126 are 2nd Tier which was found on page 2 of the list and were referred to in the past as "Tier 2" National Universities. Here George Washington U and Pepperdine are both tied for 51st and began the list of what was historically called "Tier 2". Syracuse is ranked 55th, Rutgers is ranked 60th, UConn is ranked 64th and Pitt is ranked 67th -- all 2nd Tier National U's according to the old labels -- still Tier 2 is very high quality rankings, and 55th through 67th are great rankings.

The Tier 3 and Tier 4 schools can be linked from this page and you can see that "Top Schools" is a lumping of Tier 1 and Tier 2 schools:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/ranknatudoc_brief.php


Last edited by sportsgeog on Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:25 pm 
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Quote:
BC is the Mass 1A football school always has and always will.


Ah, finally something on which to disagree, Lash. ;D

After a few brief attempts at college football, BC took up the sport seriously in 1937. For its first 30 years, they played Holy Cross 29 times. Holy Cross won 15 games to hold the lead in the series. After 1966, BC dominated the series until it was discontinued with Holy Cross winning only twice. Before 1937, Harvard was Massachusetts college football titan.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:13 pm 
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Friarfan, very interesting and obvouisly you are more of expert on New England than I. Do you think the ACC was aware of this?

Just for fun would the attached alignment scare the pants off the ACC expecially the north division. If Georgetown actually upgraded and excelled in football and started to take Maryland requits.

Georgetown would actually play in a better facility than UM.

BE North:
Syracuse - Fordham
UConn - UMass
Rutgers - Delaware

BE South:
Pitt - Temple
Cincinnati - Louisville
WVU - Georgetown


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:28 pm 
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Georgetown would make a good addition from a marketing and basketball standpoint, but the costs will keep any private schools from moving to I-A, including Fordham. Also, they would be forced to play off-campus, which is a drag on attendance.

Yes, Memphis is not in the NE, but neither are Louisville, Cincinnati or South Florida. They are not in the heart of SEC territory any more than South Florida. And Cincinnati and Louisville are in areas dominated by the Big 10 and SEC. They are only a small stretch of the territory from Louisville and add a long-time rival for Louisville and Cincinnati.

IMO Memphis has more potential than any non-BCS program except BYU and Utah. They draw very well in basketball. They had their best fb year in decades and drew 40k last year. They are hundreds of miles from the Volunteers, so they have the opportunity to be dominant in Memphis. Ole Miss is closer, but in a different state. Memphis doesn't really have to compete with a pro football team. They showed what they thought of the "Tennessee" Titans by not showing up the year they played in Memphis. BB will be hurt some by the pro bb team, but should still thrive. Utah and BYU do fine. They also don't have pro baseball or hockey, so there is only one pro sport soaking up sponsor dollars.

When you look at fb recruits, there are just not many from New York and New England. SU, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt, WVU, UMass and Temple pick up all the major markets in the NE except for Washington and Providence. Brown, Rhode Island, Georgetown and George Mason aren't going to I-A fb, so 7 teams give you all the markets that are obtainable. You could claim more of NY and Washington with Army and Navy as fb only members (with St. Johns & Georgetown for other sports?), but they are limited by their mission.

Delaware could make it in I-A, but I don't think they will draw dramatically more and could draw less (See Akron, MTSU, UL-Monroe, Troy St., Arkansas St., etc.). I just don't think they add enough. And having just lost their long-time coach, the fb situation is not settled.

Actually, perhaps the school who would be the best addition would never join. Penn is not going to leave the Ivy League. They are in Philadelphia, draw well, have 20k+ students, have a 45k seat stadium, compete well in bb and are at the top of tier 1. In the dream conference thread, NE fans might have: Harvard, Yale, Penn, Cornell, UMass, UConn, Rutgers, SU, WVU with Temple and Delaware for #11 and #12 if BC didn't come back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:21 pm 
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^Thanks for the background on Memphis, bullet.

Granted Cincinnati, Louisville, and USF are not in the Northeast. First, these schools were taken because they were the best available that were either relative close to the Big East Footprint, or in a state where the Big East was already located, Florida. Ohio and Kentucky border the historic Big East Footprint, and are sorda "Outposts" of the Big East. However, the lone clear "outpost" is USF, and conferences should not have more than one outposts. Here is why: Look at the WAC when it first expanded into Texas. As TCU first left, the WAC had to abandon expansion in its predominant western footprint, and find a team that was near Rice, SMU and Tulsa, to help feed them with regional base -- so La Tech came in. What happened 4 years later? Rice, SMU, and Tulsa are all leaving the WAC and La Tech is dangling a long ways away from a predominant western footprint. TCU and somewhat Rice, SMU, and Tulsa all nourished off of the WAC, and the WAC try to get them a regional axis in the conference, and they ended up leaving when something better came along that fits them better regionally. Those teams were all trying to gravititate to something that either served them in a higher profile way (TCU to the MWC) and/or were trying to gravitate to something that served them more regional (TCU originally bolted the WAC to go to CUSA, and Rice, SMU, and Tulsa all bolted the WAC to go to CUSA because it geographically served them better). Why should a conference try to serve and accommodate far-flung conference members, or for that matter seek far-flung conference members that may eventually end up leaving the conference later because of a better geographic deal? This matters for conferences that may lose teams in other parts of the conference, and a bi-gepgraphical region or a splitting of a too-stretched amoeba occurs and the conference has to serve both amoeba.

If Memphis came into the Big East, then a bunch of members leave, then you might see a "bi-amoeba product" like the WAC, where Memphis, Louisville, Cincy demand replacement members that serve their amoeba, and the seeking of new members from the Big East would be ignored, which is the base and the primary market of the Big East. Memphis is 400 miles from Louisville. Its 500 miles from Cincinnati. Memphis is 750 miles from WVU. Memphis is nearly 800 miles from Pitt. Memphis is nearly 1,100 miles from Syracuse. Memphis is nearly 1,100 miles from Rutgers. Memphis is nearly 1,300 miles from Storrs, CT.

Yes, Louisville is somewhat close, but not really. Louisville is about 400 miles from both Pitt and WVU and obviously closer to the other Northeastern schools than Memphis.

Louisville and Cincy were both aligned with Memphis in CUSA, but they were actually in separate basketball divisions. Also they were aligned in the Metro, before Memphis left and joined the Great Midwest. Louisville stayed in the Metro. Louisville, while being in a southern state like Memphis, is more of a rival of U Cincy than Memphis and is only 100 miles from Cincy. Cincy as a city fits well with the northeast. Ohio is the most "Northeasternish" state outside of the Northeast. Cincy is the historic biggest city of Ohio and grew to be a big city about the same time as Pitt. So Cincy is not a stretch to be in a Northeastern conference, and WVU and Pitt make natural rivals. Louisville is just 100 miles further down the road. So both of these programs fit the "Near Northeastern" label the best of any teams that could join the Big East. Louisville's sports program is also very competitive, so bringing them in with Cincy makes sense. Pitt can relate well with Cincy, and fairly well with Louisville. But it would be a stretch on how they would relate with a team 800 miles away that is the capital of the "Mid-South" and is near the Ozarks and the Mississippi Delta. Those aren't close to being Northeastern and if something happened like the WAC, where some teams leave, and they are part of a Far-west geographic wing, the Big East, as it is depleted, would have to try and maintain and/or find new members that would be geographically close, then its just a matter of time before they would leave the conference anyway, so why even take them in the first place?

400 miles is too far from Louisville and its way out of the Northeast or Near-Northeast footprint.

Conferences need to stop being "Migrating Nomadic Amoebas", focus on their very own geographic footprints, don't have more than one "Outpost" and certainly don't become a "Conference of Outposts" because history shows those conferences eventually diminish to something below what they were or even talk of disbandonment occurs.

Memphis belongs in CUSA, it should stay there and try and help build that conference. Its on the east side of that conference, which right now has its own Migrating Amoebic characteristics. But its a lot closer to USM, UAB, Tulane, Tulsa, Rice, Houston, and SMU and Texas in general than Storrs, New Brunswick, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and Morgantown, and is a lot more like those CUSA schools and thus should stay in that conference to help it thrive.


Last edited by sportsgeog on Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:24 pm 
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Bullet, you and I are just not in much agreemet today and maybe its the weather.

Fordham is already considering moving up to 1A according to reports out of NYC. The school has about 150,000 alum living in the metro area with many having big bucks. The new Jets stadium on the west side will be any easy commute from campus as well as fans living in the NYC metro area.

It is definitely possible for Fordham to move up to 1A if the school makes the committment.

As for Memphis in the Big East. Again, no way Pitt, WVU, Syracuse allow the Big East to become a southern pulled conference. Just not going to happen.

Pitt and WVU were very much against bringing in South Florida at first and those schools requit Florida.

If the BE would split someday which would be the only reason any expansion for football would occur, the conference would only go to 9. This has been stated by just about every BE football official and school Presidents.

I just can see the BE taking Memphis over Central Florida, Marshall, Fordham, UMass, Temple, Delaware, Army, Navy, Buffalo, etc.

Memphis was never on the short list for Big East expansion. Central Florida, South Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, Temple, Army, and Navy were the teams considered when Syracuse was in the ACC plans. With Syracuse back in the fold, basketball is not a benefit to expansion.

Lets face, Memphis has not done much in football in the last 30 years and one win in a minor bowl does not make you better than Marshall, Central Fla, etc.

Marshall would be a far better canidate for the Big East and we know the odds on that.






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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:11 pm 
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Memphis was apparently the only school told it was not being considered. Anyone have any idea why? Because Louisville and Cincy were in and their long ties to them (Missouri Valley before the Metro and CUSA)? Or just because the conference decided to limit itself to 8 and stick with the bb schools and so the conference was looking for a potential fb power, not bb.

Lash, we agree Memphis hasn't really ever done much in fb (and we also agree on the odds of Marshall being invited). But that puts them on the same plane as Cincinnati and ahead of USF. They have shown how well they can draw if they do become a winner. That's why I think they have good potential. But again, potential doesn't always translate into reality (See Rutgers). That's why I think ECU is probably a better candidate in a 10 team conference. They have demonstrated that they can win and they do have consistent good fan support which is very important to keep bowl bids. I'm surprised Fordham is considering I-A football. They don't offer scholarships now and they play basketball like a non-scholarship school.

I would be interested to hear a Cardinal or Bearcat fan's take on the rivalries. I've seen the Memphis fans comments. They consider Cincy and Louisville their biggest rivals. The cities have a lot of ties as river cities. The schools are very similar. My impression has always been that the rivalry is very heated between all 3.

Cincinnati is about as southern a city as you can get in the north. Pitt and WVU will become big rivals as they are close by. They will be glad to see a high profile program like Syracuse come to town. But Rutgers & UConn? Or the Fordhams, Delawares, UMass? I think the same will apply to Louisville. Kentucky is a very southern state. You don't need everyone to be a rival. Memphis will be rivals to enough schools and noone in BE fb is going anywhere unless the Big 10 invites one (and only one) out of Pitt, SU, RU.


Last edited by bullet on Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:15 pm 
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I've seen a lot of comments about the BE agreeing to stick together for 5 years. While the comments seem quite reasonable, I don't recall seeing any quotes from any AD or President stating that. Anyone hear this from an authoritative source? FriarFan?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:41 pm 
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^Its hard to say how the future will necessarily be and what the lures are. Just consider the conferences that you have mentioned there. The three schools of UL, UCincy, and UMemphis and you say not only Metro and Great Midwest, but also the Missouri Valley. UCincy also was in the MAC. All that shifting around. What does that say about why conferences need to adhere to a certain geographic footprint/region? That's what the Big 10 does, they stick to their footprint and will consider adjoining areas only. Maybe they have it right.

The Big East is not a Southern Conference. It should not drift into being one. The amoeba needs to build a house with walls and a roof, and not drift like a migrating nomadic amoeba -- like what the WAC did, what the old Missouri Valley did, like what the old Southern Conference did, all to become carnage later on. The Big East is a northeastern conference. Louisville, UCincy and USF have joined the Northeast conference, and can create rivalries with them. Louisville and UCincy can relate the best of any schools outside of the Northeast to a Northeast Conference. Yes, Cincy is on the border of the south. But if you would look at the historical population of Ohio and Cincinnati, as well as the historical populations of Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh, as well as the historical largest cities in the US and their rank through the decades, you would see that Pittsburgh and Cincinnati grew to large cities on the Ohio River together. This should easily be seen as the Cincinnati Reds and the Pittsburgh Pirates are 2 of the first 16 MLB team -- both of which are historic NL teams. As well as the pro rivalry between the Cincinnati Bengals and the Pittsburgh Steelers -- all of these illustrate a relationship between Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Louisville is only 100 miles down I-71 or the Ohio River, so it is easy to group together with Cincy.

But Memphis is 500 miles from Cincy, and 400 miles from Louisville. That is just too far to stretch a Northeastern conference into the south and west. There are numerous rivalries that exist out there where they don't exist in the same conference. That's fine, as those rivalries don't necessarily justify adding those members into the conference, even if it doesn't make sense.

Its no doubt that Memphis has great creditionals. They should continue to use those creditionals and built upon the traditional Cotton-Bowl-going-old SWC-National tradtional schools of SMU, Rice, and Houston, as well as the CUSA traditional school of USM and build a great Conference USA, where most of the "Mid-South" is located.

East Carolina had some good years in the 1990's, but recently they haven't performed very well on the field. They also are too much in the ACC country and are the 5th team of that state.

I say stick with the 8 members that the Big East has now, build upon that and be a Northeast Conference, and not a southern conference. If there is ever any need or desire to expand, then a priority when evaluating choices is to maintain the Northeast Footprint and make a choice that will maintain that footprint into the future.

But do not become a drifting geographical conference and do not make choices that are very far-flung geographically cause it could lead to the results that happened with the Missouri Valley, or the Southern or the WAC. The Big East is a Northeast Conference. It should stay that way. It should not become a conference of "Outposts", because those conferences withdraw from their highest positions and some disolve completely. The Northeast is its home and its only region where it is out front. Don't go somewhere where that is not the case.


Last edited by sportsgeog on Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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