^Its higher ranked than U Cincy, U of Louisville, USF, Temple, West Virginia, UCF, Memphis, ECU, Marshall, UAB, USM, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Toledo, and Northern Illinois. The only schools currently in the Big East that are ranked higher Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, and Pitt. Except for Norte Dame, Army, and Navy, and Tulane, it is the best academic school East of the Mississippi River in the CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt, combined.

Miami U of Ohio is the best near-northeast/midwest team academically that is near any current and future Big East members, according to the USNWR. Its football team was #11 last year and would've played in a BCS game if the new BCS standards were applied last year. They and Marshall comprise 2 MAC schools that would've gone in the past. The other two are CUSA schools, Tulane 1998, and TCU 2002.

You say AAU. The Big 10 has 11 AAU members. The Ivy League has 7, and the ACC has 4. The Big East has 3, Syracuse, Rutgers and Pitt. UConn, WVU, U Cincy, USF and U of L are not members of the AAU. So should they not belong to the Big East?

According to Carnegie Foundation, Miami U is a Doctoral/Research University-Intensive:

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/Classification/CIHE2000/PartIfiles/DRU-INT.htm

Villanova and Providence are considered Master's College and Universities, which is the next level down:

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/Classification/CIHE2000/PartIfiles/MAI.htm#2

So they shouldn't belong to the Big East?

On top of Miami U's institution-wide academic credentials, they also have a very high graduation rate.

I think they would be a fine addition to the Big East. Cerainly the best academic institution in 1-A near the northeast, outside of Norte Dame, Army, and Navy.

<<I think the perception of Miami U is a little off. Its not a flagship university, but it and Ohio U are the most historical universities in the Midwest (everything west of the Appallachians and north of the Ohio River --> westward. Other than I believe the U of Louisville, which was founded in 1798 as Jefferson Seminary and did not remain continously open until the 1890's, and the University of Tennessee which was established in the 1790's, these are the two oldest universities west of the Appallachians (other than U of L, and U Tenn). >>

Transylvania University in Lexington, Kentucky founded in 1780 is the oldest university west of the Appalachians. I can't remember any of the alumni other than Jefferson Davis right now, but it is very impressive, especially in the 1800s. Perhaps you were talking only about public institutions above? In any event, does it make any difference for college sports that Georgia was founded in 1785 and Texas in 1883? Now 1785 and 1983 would make a difference, but if it was founded before almost all the fans were born, it doesn't make much difference.

With regard to Ohio, Ohio St., Ohio U. and Miami U. all have feeder systems of 2 year colleges. None of the other state universities do. That does give each a distinction from other Ohio universities. And while Cincinnati may have a larger research component, you won't find anyone in the state of Ohio who isn't a Cincinnati grad (and maybe not many of them) who would rate Cincinnati higher than Miami. Miami and Ohio St. are on a different plane than the other Ohio state universities. Miami is very well regarded in that part of the country. Perhaps the highest compliment that could be paid to Miami is that other MAC fans will tell you what a good school Miami is. Can you imagine a Tennessee fan on a sports board telling you what a good school Georgia was? Vanderbilt maybe, but Vanderbilt always finishes at the bottom. Miami doesn't.

I don't think history (other than sports history) gives Miami or Ohio U. an edge on any other candidates. The BE took USF who doesn't even have a sports history! Academics does give Miami a good position. But I think markets (BE already in Cincinnati) pretty much keeps Miami out barring a dramatic improvement in their regular fb attendance.

^RE: Transylvania University. Somehow I glanced over that one when going through the World Alamanac.

Yes, history does not count. The point about including the history of the establishment of both Ohio U and Miami U is that they have such a big difference in when they were established when compared to the mother bohemeth state flagship U, Ohio State. Between 1804 and 1870, there were only 3 universities in Ohio, well at 3 that either were at the time or eventually became public universities (not totally clear if they were public at first). UCincy, I believe for the longest part of its history was municiply owned.

So if you were a resident of Ohio in 1855, and wanted to go to a public U in state, Ohio U and Miami U were it. They were the closest thing to a flagship then. So what I was illustrating is that Ohio U and Miami U are not quite flagships of today, they are near flagships, with Ohio U being more of one, with a handful of branch U's of the Ohio U. system. Miami U, with its long history as well, serves and continues to serve in a near flagship-like status. Ohio U and Miami U combined are the closests to being a "University of Ohio". That was what I was trying to illustrate, this near-flagship-like status of those two universities, with the long histories that exceed the bohemeth OSU by 60 to 65 years.

My point about Miami U, is that its market is actually in a good situation. If you combine the adjoining metro areas of Cincinnati and Dayton you get 3.1 million. That's more than Iowa and Kansas, and 1.5 times bigger than West Virginia. In such a region of 3.1 million, you have strong followings of OSU, Miami U, and U Cincy. Miami U goes head to head and maybe even exceed UCincy in Cincy proper. Miami U most likely would exceed UCincy in Dayton. I used to have a coworker who went to Stanford for undergraduate. She was originally from Dayton, and was considering returning to Dayton and going to Miami U of Ohio for grad school. She chose U of Michigan instead. But it is a well respected U for the Dayton area, and probably be a major market with Miami U being Dayton's hometown team.

The other part of Ohio that Miami U may be able to pick up some following is in the Cleveland metro area. Akron and Kent are located around the satellite metro area of Akron, but Cleveland proper and immediate suburbs do not have a team, other than OSU. Miami would most likely be the team outside of OSU that they might follow, on top of their light following from the somewhat near Akron and Kent. A lot of Miami U grads probably get jobs in the Cleveland metro area. So what I'm saying is that Miami U is the 2nd team in Ohio that can go the furthest statewide, because of their academic rep, their allumni, and their athletic performance.

I think Miami U is a better pick from a market standpoint than ECU, and definitely Marshall, and probably even Toledo. They may not have as many in the stands, but this last year they did from the 2 games that I saw them play on ESPN.

Miami U also has some significant college football heritage as it is known as the "Craddle of Coaches". The following great college football coaches have coached at Miami U:

Woody Hayes
Bo Schembeckler
Ara Parsegian (sp?)

Also, I remember last fall one of the announcers on CBS, said in passing that the Big East might look to the MAC for some teams, like Miami U -- mainly as a question to see if his commentator would answer if that is a possibility, as he generally agreed it is a possibility for MAC teams like Miami U to be considered for Big East expansion.

Miami of Ohio is a nice teaching college with a few good grad programs.US News ratings are a popularity contest,not a true measure of academics.The only true academic university in the MAC is SUNY Buffalo a clearly superior academic institution with regard to research and funding.The football members of the BE are clearly superior to those of the MAC except for SUNY Buffalo.The best schools are not found by student reactions to the school,items such as research productivity and funding and the number of doctoral degrees awarded are real measures of universities.Compare Miami of Ohio and UCInn on that basis.

There is one point that is missed in discussions concerning Miami Ohio or any MAC school, can the school increase BE revenue.

"Any potential football expansion school must Increased Revenue" The Big East has made the point crystal clear.

The question to ask concerning the potential of Big East expanion with Miami Ohio or any other MAC school, how would those schools increase BE revenue.

The BE already has the Cincinatti and Southwest Ohio TV markets with the Bearcats. "No potential revenue on this point"

Attendance for Miami Ohio football is horrible. If the school cant sell out a 30 thousand seat stadium no way many fans travel to BE away games. "Dont see any revenue increase for this point"

Potential to help with minor Bowl alignments. "Not sure that Miami Ohio is looked at as a good bowl team from an attendance point of view".

Bottom line, there is just no potentail for Miami Ohio to increase BE revenue and so Miami Ohio is never going to be considered for BE membership. This is based on facts presented by the BE officials who make the decisions on expansion.

Teams that could potentially increase BE revenue and we will leave out Notre Dame for now as a BE football member.

Top schools that could increase revenue for BE:

Army/Navy - The Army/Navy football game would immediately add a revenue punch for the BE TV deal. Now this could be offset with revenue sharing of football BCS and bowl revenue with two additional teams. Navy would help sure up the BE football TV markets for Baltimore and Washington DC.

Central Fla - If the school could bring the Capital One bowl to the BE bowl alignment, an increase of 4 million would be no small change.

UMass - similar to South Florida replacement for Miami Fla, would bring the Boston Market back into the BE network. If the ACC can promote the Boston Market for additional revenue, so should the Big East.

Possible schools that could increase BE revenue:

Memphis - home of the Liberty bowl and decent TV market. Should be able to increase BE revenue.

Northern Illinois - if the Chicago market would embrace this school as a member of a BCS conference and share a bit of the Big 10 top region, the TV football contract could increase.

Long shot schools that need to prove something first to gain attention of BE expansion and ensure increase in revenue:

Marshall - if the school could make a BCS game and increase national perception for requiting etc.

Temple - if the school could just make a bowl game.

Fordham - re-energize the NYC market for BE football

Most over stated for revenue potential:

Increasing to 12 football members and a championship game. This would lose money for the BE and if the BE could gain the same TV contract as the ACC of 5 million, would not offset the cost for 4 additional teams.

Somethings wrong with my other user id, so I had to create this new one:

Okay, in response to TS2:

*Post 1 of 4*

TS2. You regularly say UCF is one of the best choices for expansion outside of Norte Dame, Army, and Navy.

I don’t know where you are getting your statistics on academic ratings, but UCF is the same classification as Miami U of Ohio according to what type of graduate school and level of research it does. As you can see from the following list of Doctoral/Research Universities - Intensive – scroll down to Miami U in the Ohio section then scroll up to the Florida section and you will see UCF.

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/Classification/CIHE2000/PartIfiles/DRU-INT.htm

There is only 2 AAU members available that could be a candidate to join the Big East that are either in 1-A or 1-AA (not counting any in the Ivy League) that are east of the Mississippi River – Tulane University and SUNY Buffalo, as you say and that is it. However, SUNY Buffalo is a 3rd Tier National University according to USNWR, and Miami U is a 2nd Tier National University. Unless you think you can steal an AAU member from the ACC or the Big Ten or the SEC?

Regarding the USNWR. Its is a ranking based on several factors. Some talk about its weaknesses. But anytime you measure cultural institutions or do surveys of the human population or human institutions like colleges and universities, there is inherently going to be weaknesses in trying to measure those. This includes not only university academic rankings, it also includes National Polls for sports rankings (AP, Coaches Poll) as well as BCS rankings and formulas). That doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid survey or measurement and you should discount it totally.

Okay…

I am going to do an analysis of all the CUSA and MAC schools as well as the Independents here that are located east of the Mississippi River as far as their academic status and rankings according to the AAU, Carnegie Foundation, and US News and World Report Rankings, as well as their metro/market size, state size and status as far as them being the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th team in their respective states, as well as if there is any overlaps with 3 BCS conferences that would cause market conflicts for the BE (Big 10, ACC, SEC). The other factors I may do latter, like attendance, facilities, and budgets if they could be found. Alumni and other intangibles may be hard to find. But this analysis is mainly for academic standing, market size, and whether there is another overlapping conference in the state that the institution is located in, thus, possibly impacting the media promotion of the Big East as an “out front” conference for most of its member institutions. I am also going to eventually do this for some 1-AA teams that could be future candidates for the Big East, particularly 1-AA members that are Atlantic 10 members and/or other major 1-AA teams in the Northeast Footprint, as that would be the one of the major advantages of candidates – location in the Northeast Footprint. That will follow in a day or a few days.

Lets look at some 1-A candidates with the academic credentials that are east of the Mississippi River and their proximity to Morgantown, WV, the most southwest team of the Northeast Footprint teams of the NBE:

CUSA Schools East of the Mississippi:

Marshall University:
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Master’s Colleges and Universities – I
USNWR Rating: 2nd Tier Southern Master’s/Regional University
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 200 miles
Northeast Footprint: Yes
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: No – WVU is in the BE
Metro/market size: Mid-sized—smallish (280,000)
State Market: West Virginia – 1.8 million/2nd Team

East Carolina University (ECU):
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Intensive
USNWR Rating: 4th Tier National University
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 480 miles
Distance to New Brunswick, NJ (Rutgers): 480 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – UNC, NCSU, Duke, and WFU are in the ACC, and ECU does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like UNC and NCSU
Metro/market size: Small (<250,000)
State Market: North Carolina – 8 million/5th Team

University of Central Florida (UCF):
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Intensive
USNWR Rating: 4th Tier National University
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 900 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – FSU and U Miami are in the ACC, and U of Florida is in the SEC does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like U Fla, FSU and U Miami.
Metro/market size: Major (1.7 million)
State Market: Florida – 16 million/5th Team

University of Alabama-Birmingham (UAB):
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 3rd Tier National University
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 680 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – U of Alabama and Auburn are in the SEC does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like U of Alabama and Auburn.
Metro/market size: Major (1.1 million)
State Market: Alabama – 4.5 million/3rd Team

University of Memphis:
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 4th Tier National University
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 750 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – U of Tennessee and Vanderbilt, as well as nearby U Mississippi are in the SEC does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like U of Tennessee, Vandy, nor overcome a regional following in TN of U Mississippi overlapping into SW Tennessee.
Metro/market size: Major (1.2 million)
State Market: Tennessee – 5.7 million/3rd Team

*Cont. on Post 2 of 4*

*Post 2 of 4*

CUSA Schools East of the Mississippi -- Cont.

University of Southern Mississippi:
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 3rd Tier National University
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 910 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – U of Mississippi and Miss State are in the SEC does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like U Mississippi and Miss State.
Metro/market size: Small (100,000)
State Market: Mississippi – 2.8 million/3rd Team

Tulane University:
AAU: Yes
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 1st Tier National University -- #44 Ranking
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 1,020 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – LSU is in the SEC does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like LSU.
Metro/market size: Major (1.4 million)
State Market: Louisiana – 4.5 million/2nd Team

Mid American Conference Candidates:

University at Buffalo (SUNY):
AAU: Yes
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 3rd Tier National University
Distance to Syracuse: 150 miles
Distance to Pittsburgh: 220 miles
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 280 miles
Northeast Footprint: Yes
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: No – Syracuse is already in the Big East.
Metro/market size: Major (1.4 million)
Metro/market size: Major (1.2 million)
State Market: New York – 19 Million/2nd or 3rd Team depending on how you would view Army

Kent State University:
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 4th Tier National University
Distance to Pittsburgh: 100 miles
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 170 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – OSU is in the Big 10 does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like OSU.
Metro/market size: Satellite Metro (Akron): Mid-major (700,000)
Greater Metro (Cleveland/Akron): Major-Large (2.9 million)
State Market: Ohio – 11.5 million/3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th Team depending on how you look at all the MAC schools

University of Akron:
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Intensive
USNWR Rating: 4th Tier National University
Distance to Pittsburgh: 120 miles
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 190 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – OSU is in the Big 10 does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like OSU.
Metro/market size: Satellite Metro (Akron): Mid-major (700,000)
Greater Metro (Cleveland/Akron): Major-Large (2.9 million)
State Market: Ohio – 11.5 million/3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th Team depending on how you look at all the MAC schools

University of Toledo:
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 4th Tier National University
Distance to Pittsburgh: 230 miles
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 300 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – OSU is in the Big 10, as well as Michigan and Michigan State have strong followings in the greater Toledo market and does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like OSU, nor overcome the strong followings of U o M and MSU in Northwest Ohio.
Mid-major (700,000)
State Market: Ohio – 11.5 million/3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th Team depending on how you look at all the MAC schools

Bowling Green State University
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Intensive
USNWR Rating: 3rd Tier National University
Distance to Pittsburgh: 240 miles
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 310 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – OSU is in the Big 10, as well as Michigan and Michigan State have strong followings in the greater Toledo market and does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like OSU, nor overcome the strong followings of U o M and MSU in Northwest Ohio.
Metro/market size: Mid-major (700,000)
State Market: Ohio – 11.5 million/3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th Team depending on how you look at all the MAC schools

Ohio University:
AAU: No
Carnegie Foundation Classification: Doctoral/Research Universities – Extensive
USNWR Rating: 2nd Tier National University -- #107 Ranking
Distance to Morgantown, WV: 150 miles
Distance to Pittsburgh, PA: 200 miles
Overlapping of another major conference that may make the BE a secondary conference/Teams in other conferences in state: Yes – OSU is in the Big 10 does not demonstrate enough that it would have statewide following like OSU. However, because it is a near-like flagship it may penetrate the statewide market more than other MAC schools except Miami U.
Metro/market size: Micropolitan/Rural (60,000)
State Market: Ohio – 11.5 million/3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th Team depending on how you look at all the MAC schools

*Cont. on Page 3 of 4*