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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:02 pm 

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Dognthings, when those Florida kids play at a Big East school facing your future Penn State team, you will soon realize that Florida talent is not overrated. South Florida is new to major football and Penn State struggled with this team at home.

The Big East did expand into the Ohio Valley out of necessity and will expand further out of the east when necessity comes calling again.

Please give it up on the regional argument it just not going to fly. Sorry but it just obvious the arguments do not hold up.

Why does Penn State travel to Minneapolis and Iowa City every other year? Ohio State is the only close school if you can call that close. It was due to necessity of being part of a major conference with similar type schools. Likewise the BE has to view the same benefits and look for like type schools for future expansion options.


I have offered comments on Penn State's issues, but they beat USF 23 to 13 in their first game this year. The game was not as close as the score indicates. Penn State may lose a few in the Big Ten, they need to be tested. What does Penn State have to do with your fanciful suggestions? Contrary to your attempted comparison, Penn State is in the Big10 and belongs there. If they weren't, they would be in the ACC and the BE would be configured close to what it was previously.

Florida does have talent and a top state for recruitment. However, there have been a lot of Georgia players on FSU's and UF's rosters over the years. Florida now has seven 1-A teams of which four are in BCS conferences. They have 1-AAs' in Bethune-Cookman, Fla A&M, and Jacksonville. Miami, FSU and UF will reign, but will have growing competition within and outside the state. Miami and FSU will not just dominate the ACC without a fight from a few of the others. And, the SEC has plenty to challenge UF and Urban Myer.



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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:44 pm 
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Dogsnthinkgs, your sounding very much like a sore loser. Penn State would be in the Big East had the basketball schools not made a critical error in judgement. If Penn State had been accepted into the BE for basketball, we would not be having many of these discussions.

In fact this board may not have been invented as the SEC expanded after Big 10 expanded with Penn State. Once SEC expanded, all other conferences got on board with FSU going to ACC and ACC latter expanded to benefit FSU.

And it came back to bite the BE in the back side.

Penn State has a lot to do with many of the current issues that exist with college sports in the east. You can take the east of Penn State, however, you can take Penn State out of the east. They are going to have to compete with the future Big East that may inlcude some MWC schools as well.


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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:37 pm 
Sore Loser? You are projecting again.

Do you feel your arguments gain merit by dissing alleged allegiances or associations of others?

Why do you go from defending the status quo in the BE to supporting ECU and all other kinds of additions to some far-flung WAC thing? Go back and read your own posts for the last couple of years. Many new posters may have not viewed this, including your agreeing Metro, but they are there. Exactly what has changed in the BE to engage in such radical shifts of opinion?

When it comes to in-conference travel, proceeds are subject to conference policy and schools lack the independence for incentives in comparison to negotiating OOC games. Schools do not want to travel cross country unless there are monetary enticements, and the options for in-conference incentives are less. As another seasoned poster just pointed out, schools do like sufficient road games traveling fans have access to.
Utah and BYU and the like can schedule OOC away or at home with types such as UCLA, Oregon, etc., and do better than traveling cross country to Papa John Stadium or Rutgers.


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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:09 pm 
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Quote:
Dogsnthinkgs, your sounding very much like a sore loser. Penn State would be in the Big East had the basketball schools not made a critical error in judgement. If Penn State had been accepted into the BE for basketball, we would not be having many of these discussions.

In fact this board may not have been invented as the SEC expanded after Big 10 expanded with Penn State. Once SEC expanded, all other conferences got on board with FSU going to ACC and ACC latter expanded to benefit FSU.

And it came back to bite the BE in the back side.

Penn State has a lot to do with many of the current issues that exist with college sports in the east. You can take the east of Penn State, however, you can take Penn State out of the east. They are going to have to compete with the future Big East that may inlcude some MWC schools as well.


Wow, Lash. I used to think you were a pretty good poster on here. But you seem to have lost it alittle bit.


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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:46 pm 
Good points about travel, SportsKC.

Lash,
Penn State, for better or worse, is in a secure conference, the Big10. They are in the Big 10 as much as Indiana, Michigan, Iowa, or Ohio State is. It's done, and is not changing. Its decision is not regretted.
Penn State was one conference addition to the Big10. It was not the first conference change, it will not be among the last. Had the Big East been created much earlier and Penn State somehow was a part of it, there is no assurance Penn State would not have gone to the Big10 at some point just as Miami left for the ACC.
Penn State is not the fly in the ointment for the BE. Notre Dame is the school that can offer the BE more, not Penn State. Penn State is totally out of the Big East picture. Notre Dame is a component of the triadic factions of the BE, politically and athletically while a fb independent.
Notre Dame is the school that is being enabled via BE & MT, Michigan, Purdue, MSU, NBC, BCS, etc. Notre Dame is the school that generates speculation, and perhaps decision holdups for at least two BCS conferences.
One may be assured, Notre Dame has its hands in whatever direction the BE takes, split, expansion, or otherwise.
BE decision-making appears cautious, maybe too cautious for its own good. They have been selective in an unorthodox way due to difficult consensus building. But risk taking, in adding schools, has not been their pattern. They have decent schools for fb. But with few, if any, who have the potential to dominate long-term nationally, their real risk is being short in number compared to the five prime BCS conferences. To resolve this, does not require the services of the MWC. The MWC has another road to obtain BCS status. The BE already has it and just needs to keep it secured for the future.



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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:14 pm 
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I posted this a few weeks back on another thread and I still think it makes the most sense for the BE from a BCS standpoint and an allsports standpoint as well.

IMO, the Big East needs to focus on strong football schools within the Eastern and Central time zones. They need to bring in programs that can compete in football right away, even if the other sports may need some improvement, which the BE affiliation could probably help quickly. I think the 12 team two division All Sports set up is the best way to go. That said here are the Universities I think would strengthen the conference the most:

1. Memphis - I have read many of the posts, both positive and negative for the school, including the so called "spat" with Louisville. But, Memphis has a great TV market #44, an up and coming football program with a fine stadium, strong basketball and one of the best basketball venues in the country. Memphis could be the cornerstone of the Big East's final expansion.

2. East Carolina - Geographically it's a good fit. The football program is down right now, but they have a solid fan base and a turn around with Holtz seems apparent. The basketball program is a diamond in the rough. Although the TV market isn't in the top 20, it's close at a suprising #35! Plus, they have an outstanding baseball program.

3. Southern Miss - What can you say about the football program there? These guys play as tough as any team in the nation. They will bring a more impressive football identity than any of the recent additions to the BE and that includes the so called CUSA king Louisville. They are expanding their stadium to around 45k to make them more attractive as well. The basketball situation isn't great, but they hired Larry Eustachy and he should turn things around quickly. It's a small TV market, but when you combine the 3 main areas they draw from, Hattiesburg, Jackson and the gulf coast, it gives them around 568K which would place their TV market at # 55. Also another very good baseball school.

4. UAB - Ok, this one's a reach. The football program is still a question mark and their budget concerns are a real issue. But, the basketball program is strong, they have a solid TV market at #40 and good facilities. They are strong academically and well respected around the country for their medical school. They are in the largest city in Alabama and have a growing student population.

So these southern four combined with recent additions South Florida and Louisville could make up the Big East South. allowing the Big East to power into the deep south terrain that has always been dominated by the SEC.

Notice those I left out:
Army and Navy-I don't see adding football only schools, regardless of tradition or location.
Marshall- I see no way WVU will allow this
UMASS, Nova - Just can't risk more 1-AA schools failing at big time football.
Temple- BE kicked them out and the've made no strides for a second look.


The new set up would look like this:

BE NORTH

1. SYRACUSE
2. UCONN
3. PITTSBURGH
4. RUTGERS
5. WEST VIRGINIA
6. CINCINNATI

SOUTH

1. LOUISVILLE
2. SOUTH FLORIDA
3. SOUTHERN MISS
4. MEMPHIS
5. EAST CAROLINA
6. UAB

As an SEC fan, I know how passionate the south is about their football. I think these programs would blossom in the BE and help the legue solidify itself in the BCS.


Last edited by storm on Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:32 pm 
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BAD OLD IDEA ,The PREVIOUSLY REJECTED BY THE BE.The BE will not become the little south and go head to head with acc and the sec.The BE will have its alliance with ND and Army and Navy and the little south CUSA will march some place else likely along side MWC and the vacant seats of the mwc found in abundance at the SDST/San Jose st game.


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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
You may be right, but I'm confused about how Army, Navy along with ND will make the BE a cohesive league.

Now IF Notre Dame were to say "we'll come in for ALL Sports including football." Well OK I'll give it to you. What conference wouldn't want the Irish? But to have some "bowl alliance" w/ND and football only membership for Army/Navy just seems to go against how the big time conferences are constructed. It seems to me that is the same type of bad situation the BE and to some extent CUSA had. "some of this and some of that" programs within the league. Just doesn't seem to be the best for the long term of the BE.

But who knows.


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