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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:15 am 
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I'm not the only nitpicky guy here, eh?

I would humbly concede the West Virginia capacity issue, though I know the radio hack in Boise would make a meal out of reducing the capacity, even if we're talking about replacing it with luxury accomodations. I still concede it, but implying that this was deliberate doesn't exactly enthrall me. Suffice it to say that college sports is a slightly large issue.

Dogs, you're right... my only defense is that our understandably bent Owl fan was trying to make a comparison issue when a good chunk of evidence is out there to suggest that internal issues at Temple have the lion's share to do with their problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:31 pm 
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Lash, Pounder, I had exactly the same thoughts about BE attendance. I also was not aware WVU had a temporary capacity reduction (neither was Street & Smith-but their mag seems pretty sloppy this year-they definitely took a downturn). That certainly would explain WVU who normally has excellent support. But that was the worst I had seen SU attendance-and it was against a future conference mate.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:03 pm 
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Pounder, I did not understand you comment on Boise radio station? Anyone who supports a team having a blue football field and the other state university that has the goal post hanging from the ceiling should never comment on football facilities - period!

I believe the attendance at WVU only decreased by a couple thousand. I watched the Md/WV game on TV and the stadium additions look very impressive. The stadium is one of the best in the country. WVU facilities are probably more comparable to the Big 10.

Syracuse is having a down year and its understandable that attendance would decrease in the current situation. This is not an excuse as Penn State gets 100 thousdand plus with a sub par team.

Once Syracuse gets its act together the attendance will get back to pre Donnavan days.

Keep in mind that Syracue is one of the top five schools in basketball attendance and gets more fans in basketball than most non BCS schools get for football.

Pitt is like Maryland and other teams located in a pro town, your team has to be winning big to get capacity attendance. There will be sellouts when Notre Dame and WVU come to town.

The big difference in the Big East compared to most non BCS conferences is the potential to get the attendance and having the type of stadiums that can hold a large crowd or a close by pro stadium that games can be played.

There are exceptions such as East Carolina that has impressive attendance with the type of schedule is gets in Greenville.

I am back on the East Carolina band wagon when it comes to attendance. Same for Marshall. Both will most likely someday become BE members.

next topic----

The Big East football schools are starting to realize that the new 16 team conference for basketball is only going to get a certain amount of teams in the NCAA. No dought it will be the premier basketball league. I think this fact more than anything esle will cause the football schools to look to sure up football strenght in the future.

Future Big East 12 team alignment preference at this time.

North: Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Pittsburgh,
WVU, Marshall

South: Louisville, Cincy, Memphis, East Carolina,
Southern Miss, South Florida

Each division has three top 20 basketball members and three strong minded football programs

If you are concerned about markets, Marshall and Southern Miss are on the tube several times this year. So much for small markets not getting on TV.









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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:25 pm 
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The basketball problem has anumber of other endings.Will schools as Seton Hall,Providence,St.Johns remain in the BE?Will the costs be too much?Will the 9th member of the football conference(shared by Army and Navy) help to strengthen BE football?Will an affilation between ND and the BE grow to games each year with both Army and Navy and at least 2-4 more games?The group of 16 may change.?However how it will change is not for sure.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:52 pm 
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Memphis and Southern Miss are not in the BE footprint. I think they have to take either Temple and UCF(only reason is USF) or just have Army and Navy as the 11 and 12 members for football and have a 10 bb league.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:36 pm 
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Quote:

Pittsburgh hosts Nebraska, NEBRASKA, and only draws 40,133 at Heinz.


Pounder, I'm sure you are aware of all the flooding that occurred in Western PA the previous few days before the game?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:56 pm 
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Good point PantherSC97, lets just hope all those folks in Western PA get through this hurricane season as well as the good folks in south.

SportsKC, the first thing that needs clarification, what is the definition of a footprint?

To me the footprint is the sum of the whole members and their respective TV markets.

It is not necessarily a region tied by geography. This was more true in the past, however, with BC in the ACC and South Florida in the BE, the football print is your group of TV markets.

When the BE added Marquette and Depaul, the basketball footprint extended to Chicago and Milwaukee. Both cities are not necessarily a geogrphical footprint and more of a TV market footprint.

So, if you add Southern Miss and Memphis to the Big East football, the footprint of the Big East would include Western Tennessee and the southern Mississippi.

With 12 team conferences, this alignment would be no different that the Big 12 or for that matter the SEC and the ACC. The actual location of the U of Arkansas is more aligned with Oklahoma and sw Missouri than Florida or Georgia. What makes the footprint work is divisions for the SEC and Big 12. Same could benefit the Big East.

The " northeast" is already maxed out with football teams and the proposed north division of Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, WVU, and Marshall/orTemple would make a great geographical football print region. The same would be true for the south division.

This is how the big time conferences are doing expansion these days and the Big East is just primed to follow. Its just a matter of time. Once you have a couple seasons of 6 to 7 basketball bids, it will get very old fast having 16 basketball members.




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:11 pm 
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^I get what you are saying but Memphis and Southern Miss in a conference with UConn and Syracuse? Geography makes no sense at all. BE with DePaul, Marquette is different. You have 2 conference in the BE basically, DePaul, Marquette, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh and possiblally even Syracuse are basically a midwestern footprint. BC makes a little sense in the ACC, ACC took the Atlantic Coast geography. USF takes where Miami was. Arkansas is different pot. State schools take the whole state, Arkansas is borderd by Louisiana, Mississippi, and Tennessee. SEC wise they fit. Arkansas would be better in the Big 12 IMO instead of Baylor.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:25 pm 
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SportsKC, 30 years ago I would agree with your assessement on Syracuse and UConn not belonging in the same conference as Southern Miss and Memphis.

I would also agree the conference would not be aligned correctly with those four in a 9 or 10 team league today.

A different story with 12 team conferences. Both divisions of each 12 team conference are really two conferences in one and the rivals remain with the divisions that most of your games are played including basketball.

Again having UConn/Syracuse in the same conference as Memphis/Southern Miss makes a lot of sense and as much sense as Syracuse and BC were already gone to the southern based ACC until the ... well you get the point.

I see the new 8 BE football schools aligned with the best of four other southern schools not in a current BCS conference in a very few years to reach that magic number of 12 that all the TV execs go nuts over.

It is just a matter of time.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:25 pm 
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East / midwest breakup makes the most senseUSFLA is an exception.Florida in the central part of the state is no southern state.
UConn,Syracuse,Rutgers,Pitt,Providence,Seton Hall,StJohns,Villanova(Army Football only)Northeastern

WVU,Louisville,Cincinnati,USFLA,Marquette,DePaul,ND,Georgetown(Navy Football only)Northern CUSA


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:34 pm 
I can understand the debate about schools on/near the east coast, such as East Carolina, Marshall, and Central Florida being future members of the BE.

Schools such as Southern Miss and Memphis are way-off footprint. Suppose the BE did take one or both. Could that give the BE comfort, and the schools involved, that such is for the long term?

If the BE gets too spread out, particularly being a conference with all-sports and bb oriented schools, they are in danger of having some of the old problems that plagued former configurations that existed in C-USA, SunBelt, and the WAC.

The BE made decent additions when they added Cincy, L'ville, and USF. They were about the best available, and their geographic locations can be rationalized. Southern Miss may be "hot" fb program at the moment; but all things considered for the long term, a school such as East Carolina would connect better with northeastern teams. Driving five or six hours up or down I-95 is a big difference than driving to the region near the Mississippi delta.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:10 am 
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I can accept the flood issue... but how many tickets were sold?

Now, as to footprint- BCS conferences (generally) earn so much money from TV that the old rules of geography don't seem to apply anymore. You can argue that the ACC seeking Syracuse and Boston College was an indication of this. There's a part of me that thinks that a devalued Rose Bowl may cause some Pac-10 schools to someday seek an alliance with Big 12 schools... generally amongst a reorganization of BCS conferences that partly squeezes out poorer performers and partly intercepts a playoff from NCAA hands if the winds of change start blowing that way. 4 BCS conferences, 4-team playoff, anyone?

I have a question here- are the current BE TV negotiations inclusive of football and basketball? Left to the little info I have right now, I'm of the opinion that basketball isn't worth much to the networks, which is why negotiations are where they are right now, regardless of how good conference basketball will be for the near future. If they're merely negotiating football, well, you're lucky to get half of what you had.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:13 pm 
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Pounder, the Rose bowl is gaining lots of value with the new contract with ABC. This was reported in USA Today this week.

No danger of Pac 10 needing any refuge. Ditto to the Big 10.

I see 7 future BCS conferences unless the Pac 10 and Big 10 get feed up with BCS politics and take the Rose Bowl money and run.

DogsNthingys, I see your point on Southern Miss being way out. The small market and primary football school would probably keep this school out of the Big East.

Tigersharktwo, always have liked your proposal and really seems practical with Army/Navy football and Villanova updgrade to 1A. Only issue is how do make Notre Dame go along.

This would be the cure all for the BE for TV contracts, money making football championship game, etc.

This alignment could also work if Notre Dame left and was replaced by Northern Illinois.









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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:04 am 
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Quote:
I can accept the flood issue... but how many tickets were sold?


I have tried to find any supporting info via the web, but what I have heard is that the number is around 55-60k based on available tickets before the game. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I would be surprised if it was less than 50k. The week before against Ohio U, Pitt drew 50k. Granted it was the 1st game of the year, but I wouldn't expect a 10k dropoff with NU as the opponent.

Last year Pitt averaged 58k (with VT, ND, and UM all at home and with high expectations). I think the year before it was around 45-50k(?).

I would expect around 55k for BC and close to a sellout against WVU especially if Pitt is 4-1 going into the game against BC. ND is away this year.

SUs lack of attendance doesn't surprise me. They didn't sell out against ND last year. I think they need a coaching change to get people/alumni exicted about SU FB again.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:08 pm 
Panther, Syracuse's fb attendance may indeed get elevated, at least for the short term, with a coaching change. I may be one of a diminishing group that thinks Coach "P" is a good coach. Syracuse is odd in that they can get overrun by perceived lesser programs, and then turn around and beat handily someone they are not supposed to beat.
When new coaches are hired at the big schools and offered million dollar or near salaries, the schools and their fans expect instant success. At some places, no longer are new coaches extended a four or five year grace period for their new recruits to mature and install new offensive and defensive schemes. However, for each game across the spectrum, for a school that has a win, another will have a loss. Of course Coach P has had his grace period, but Syracuse football cannot assume an immediate new coach will work wonders.


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