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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:16 pm 
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Friend, agreed on the need to remedy the discourse between the BE factions. For that reason, I'm uncertain about the value and prospects for a BE/CUSA merger. Although, such a relationship could forge similar action between the MWC and WAC (ironically enough) to settle 90% of the BCS contentions! Too complex?

The sad feature to this, however, would be the percieved sacrifice of northeastern football. Would make one believe those schools would be better off as a northern division in a huge ACC. Anyway, we'll know which way it's headed once a decision is made regarding Louisville's affiliation.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:58 pm 
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Gunnerfan,one needn't have sat in on every BE meeting to know that Mr.Tranghese immediately and consistently went into a very negative public attack mode that frankly made him a part of the problem and not a part of the solution.After the BE meetings he sort of just "vanished" from public view.
As you point out,Mr Swofford had his own split constituency to handle.I submit that it helped him to accomplish his "raid" of the BE by acting in a cordial gentlemanly like manner.
I believe that your other points underscore my further contention that any fair and lasting resolution for the BE will require much work and much compromise by the parties.I further suggest that if there is no compromise there will "eventually" be a split between the BE FB and bb factions.Comments?


Friend, "immediately & consistently went into a very negative public attack mode that frankly made him part of the problem & not a part of the solution." ???

Mr. Tranghese made only 2 statements on the situation that I can recall - the one in April when he first called attention to the situation & the one at the Big East conference in May. How is this consistent & public?

Mr. Swofford was "cordial & gentlemanly." When was this? When he was conducting secret negotiations with 3 Big East members without the courtesy of informing the Big East commissioner with whom he had a long standing relationship?

Just what is it that you expected Mr. Tranghese to have done to be part of the solution? Are you telling us that Miami would have stayed had Mr. Tranghese been more polite to Mrs. Shalala, that the University of Miami Board of Trutees made a multi-million dollar decision affecting the future of the university over a snit? ::)


Last edited by friarfan on Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:06 pm 
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Friarfan,thanks for your latest post.I agree with you that the BE hybrid is a product of evolution.My point is that the evolutionary process is ongoing and with the "dominant genes"(sorry Mr. Darwin)being those of FB.Eventually this will be even more evident in the NE. Yes,there is and will be a shaking out period where the weaker FB programs will drop by the wayside.But isn't that just a reflection of life?After all isn't sports cherished for the competition?If you cannot compete at a certain level why shouldn't you drop down or be forced to drop down?
I do not buy into the notion that Northeast college FB cannot function in a BCS environment.Will it survive in its current form in the BE?I say,absolutely not.There needs to be a major restructuring of BE FB to include some type of split with the bb schools.The time has come where this issue needs to be addressed.
I believe that the bb-only schools can function on their own. They should be able to thrive as a D-1 bb league.
In a related situation,Pat Forde,with the Louisville Courier-journal,was on the Kornheiser program this morning.Among other issues he discussed the notion that Louisville was very interested in joining the BE for FB but also very interested in the NE bb connection even if it involved only so-called "crossover "games with the "catholic" schools.he was of the opinion that Louisville would receive and accept a BE invite sometime later this summer.
Bottomline appears to be that the "infighting virus" that was seen to some extent in the recent ACC expansion discussions has and will infect the BE for the better part of the next 12 months.At this time,no one seems to know how the BE will look after it comes out of this bout with said virus. Thanks.


BlackGold, you make a good case 8-) & the split is certainly a way to go - one that I at times feel is inevitable & the only way to go. The thing that keeps nagging me is the thought that you sacrifice the Big East as we know it for non-BCS football & all of the problems that brings.

Do you really think a reorganized Big East Football or merged CUSA/Big East Football can earn BCS status? How? ???


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:28 pm 
Friarfan,Yes,Mr.Tranghese completely "lost his cool" as reflected in his remarks to Mr Weis and in remarks at the BE meeting.He then apparently "vanished" from public view.Do you really believe that this ACC expansion is the worst thing that has happened to NCAA during Mr. Tranghese's lifetime?
So the ACC wanted to conduct their busuness in private,hey Friarfan,not only is that the normal way that American business is conducted it is perfectly legal,notwithstanding the frivilous lawsuit brought against BC,Miami and the ACC by certain BE schools.
Hey,I understand that he has Providence ties Friarfan,but hey get a grip.In my opinion he acted in a totally unprofessional way.If he had worked for me I would have "fired his butt". I will gladly repeat any part of my response that you do not understand.Comments?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:42 pm 
Friarfan,In response to your question regarding what I thought that Mr.Tranghese should have done to keep Miami and the other BE FB schools in the fold would include;
1.Not lose his temper,and to conduct himself in a professional manner.Maybe he can act like that as the SID of a bb-only school in Rhode Island but with University Presidents it doesn't work.
2.He should have worked to get Temple out of the BE sooner.
3.He should have worked to achieve a better,harder bargain with ND to include either Full membership or no membership by ND.
4.He should have worked harder to separate the bb only schools from the FB schools to ease that tension.
I understand that the last three items have been discussed by the BE for years.If his excuse is that he is just an employee and the Presidents make all of the decisions maybe it is time to replace Mr.Tranghese with a real FB commissioner and let Mike either run some bb only league or go back to being the SID at Providence.Comments?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:54 pm 
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Friarfan,Yes,Mr.Tranghese completely "lost his cool" as reflected in his remarks to Mr Weis and in remarks at the BE meeting.He then apparently "vanished" from public view.Do you really believe that this ACC expansion is the worst thing that has happened to NCAA during Mr. Tranghese's lifetime?
So the ACC wanted to conduct their busuness in private,hey Friarfan,not only is that the normal way that American business is conducted it is perfectly legal,notwithstanding the frivilous lawsuit brought against BC,Miami and the ACC by certain BE schools.
Hey,I understand that he has Providence ties Friarfan,but hey get a grip.In my opinion he acted in a totally unprofessional way.If he had worked for me I would have "fired his butt". I will gladly repeat any part of my response that you do not understand.Comments?


Friend, rather than repeating anything you've already said, please answer my basic question: What did you expect him to do?

Let me ask you as well whether Mr. Swofford distinguished himself with his leadership skills when he totally misjudged support within his own league for the expansion plan that he proposed? Or when he dragged a once proud league through the mud with one foolhardy proposal after another? Is this how he does business in private? Or was it when he"led" the ACC to a "solution" of 11 schools & NO post-season championship game when the goal had been 12 members with a post-season game? Is this when he was "part of the solution" rather than a part of the problem? This "solution" meets none of the stated goals & objectives & reduces the revenue for every conference member - including Miami. Only VA Tech will benefit from this.

Oh, yes, I forgot . . . he did all of this in a "cordial & gentlemanly manner." In the real world, failing to achieve any of the goals & objectives for which you were hired is what gets you fired. And competent leaders are not threatened by a little honest show of emotion as that which we saw coming from Mr. Tranghese.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:05 pm 
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Friarfan,In response to your question regarding what I thought that Mr.Tranghese should have done to keep Miami and the other BE FB schools in the fold would include;
1.Not lose his temper,and to conduct himself in a professional manner.Maybe he can act like that as the SID of a bb-only school in Rhode Island but with University Presidents it doesn't work.
2.He should have worked to get Temple out of the BE sooner.
3.He should have worked to achieve a better,harder bargain with ND to include either Full membership or no membership by ND.
4.He should have worked harder to separate the bb only schools from the FB schools to ease that tension.
I understand that the last three items have been discussed by the BE for years.If his excuse is that he is just an employee and the Presidents make all of the decisions maybe it is time to replace Mr.Tranghese with a real FB commissioner and let Mike either run some bb only league or go back to being the SID at Providence.Comments?


Friend, you amaze me. After what the ACC & Commissioner Swoffor just went through, you still don't realize that it really is the university presidents who make the decisions. And not just them . . . their Boards . . . and sometimes even their governors.

You also better get used to the problem of trying to make deals with Notre Dame. when that is apparently what the ACC is banking on. At least the Big East has a basketball-only option, so why not include Notre Dame in it?

So, where are we with your proposals . . . no Temple . . . no Notre Dame . . . no 8 football teams which the NCAA requires. Yeah that would have worked real well. And no recommendations from you as to anything that he might have done during this process of the last 3 monts other than to hold his temper in check - something that you apparently can't do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:06 pm 
Friarfan,Ive already responded to your initial questions therefore please have the courtesy to respond to mine.Thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:07 pm 
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Friarfan,thanks for the recent post.I would not like to see a sacrifice of either NE bb or FB.However,I do not look at this as an either or situation.
Will a compromise be easy to obtain?Absolutely not.However,with the stakes so high,I hope that all BE parties,inclding the commissioner,will rise to the occasion and be willing to make individual sacrifices so there will be a strong regional D-1a FB conference that is "based" in the NE with perhaps a few schools north of the Mason-Dixon and in the Eastern time zone. I believe that real trick is in building the FB league since BE bb looks stronger than ever.I continue to believe that it will be an interesting summer for the BE.Thanks.


Good point. Maybe this is the ideal time for a split since the basketball strength in the league currently lies with the football schools (with the exception of Notre Dame).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:09 pm 
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Friarfan,Ive already responded to your initial questions therefore please have the courtesy to respond to mine.Thank you.


Friend, I think we've been typing at the same time on a couple of these posts. See my comments above, responding to you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:35 pm 
Friarfan,I have received both of your responses to mine.
First,I believe that your strong anti-ACC bias is showing.As I have previously posted, I believe that the ACC botched their original expansion.However I believe that Mr.Swofford gets credit for working with his schools in getting an alternative expansion plan which arguably puts the ACC in position to claim to be one of the stronger conferences in the country for both FB and bb.
As for the BE and Tranghese,he lost his temper and got "his pooch screwed" in the process.
I contend that if Mr.Tranghese had not "burned his bridges" with his personal attacks on Miami he could/should have been in a better position to attempt to make an effective counterproposal to Miami after the ACC dropped both Syracuse and BC. Instead he was apparently out hiding somewhere.
You asked me what he and of course the BE should have done to keep the FB schools.It does not surprise me that you disagree with my listed ideas since they deal with correcting the balance between the BE bb and FB schools.
It is just a matter of time before Providence and the rest of the bb-only schools that are trying to desparately hand onto D-1a FB conference are placed into their proper NCAA division.
Friarfan,I do not say this with any anger at all ,so I have no idea what "my" temper or lack thereof has to do with or discussion.Again,perhaps your pro-Tranghese/Providence bias is showing again?
Its too bad that in its time of crisis the BE has someone like Tranghese supposedly leading it.I am so sorry if the truth hurts you.Comments?


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