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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:24 am 
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javaman, I just don't understand all the doom and gloom expressed by a lot of the Big East fans. Yes, the Big East has lost Miami and Va Tech which are the current football powers in the Big East.

I think the Big East glass if half full and not half empty.

The Big East can finally turn its back side to the ACC. A long time jealous rival that was watching the Big East move quickly ahead of the much older and established conference. The ACC is done with expansion at the expense of the Big East.

The Big East is still considered nationally as the 6th best conference. This is without Miami and Va Tech and before new expansion candidates are added. Please spare me on BC and its so called TV market.

Everyone in the country is waiting on BE expansion to make a move. This alone makes a solid statement.

Now to WVU fans. First of all, I have driven WV interstates many times and must say never have seen very many patched up pickups . This is a another myth. Not stating that WV is one if the rich states, however, the Beverly Hillbilly think just do not match.

While I am on WVU fans and the gloom of the formal football WVU coach thoughts of Big East football. If WVU want a pack stadium, schedule Marshall home and home. You get a packed stadium every other year. Schedule Penn State 2 for 1. Put up or shut up. You do have a choice. Enough all ready!

Now back to Big East expansion.

Start small and build on future plans. Cincinatti, Louisville, and South Florida are all good teams and a d**n site better than some of the current BCS teams.

I would add both Central FL and Temple as football only members for 10. Provide UMass time to upgrade to 1A football. Maybe reasons the A10 is adding St Louis and Charlotte to allow a future exit of UMass and Temple and keep A10 with 12.

Next comes Marshall for 12. Marshall will only get better in a rebuilt Conf USA.

future North: Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, UMass, Rutgers, Temple

future South: WVU, Marshall, Cincy, Louisville, South Florida, Central Florida

You know have a healthy TV market owned by the Big East in the big eastern markets including Boston.

Additionally you have TV markets in the Ohio Valley and central and south Florida markets.

This will take time to develop, however, the ACC took 50 years to get to where it is today. Allow the Big East some time to grow.














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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:59 am 
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Lash, I happen to like your ideas. Retaining Temple & adding UMass would go along way toward re-establishing the Big East's regional identity in the Northeast. The addition of Marshall would add a strong football program with built-in rivalries that also makes geographic sense & would solidify a strong presence in the "no-man's land" between the Big Ten & the SEC.

BlackGold, the Syracuse editorial makes no sense because Syracuse has nowhere to go. The Big Ten doesn't want them & the ACC is maxed out. It's not happening for CUSA & they are just trying to survive this process.

It's interesting that by raiding the Big East, the ACC will go from the nation's mostr feared & respected basketball conference to one with a lot of question marks while it watches the Big East emerge as the nation's top basketball conference. While this realignment has been studied to death from the football perspective, little has been said about the basketball side. There are huge dollars at stake on the basketball side.

The sad thing about all of this realignment is what it has done to the identities of these leagues. Reading the recent column by Jay Bilas & reading some of the ACC boards, it is clear that many ACC fans are not happy about expansion. Bilas remembers the days when the ACC was 7 or 8 members. Are Georgia Tech, Florida State, & Miami really ACC schools? Are BC & Virginia Tech ACC schools? These games do not stir the memories of long time ACC fans, many of whom only look at the loss of home & home basketball scheduling with traditional rivals & loss of any yearly football match-up against some traditional rivals. The same loss of identity can be found in the Northeast as old timers remembers the days when the independents all competed against each other in football even though they weren't in a league. Now they're watching the Big Ten in Pennsylvania, folks in Boston, the "hub" of New England, will be watching the ACC, & what's left of the Northeast will be tracking the progress of schools in Florida & the Ohio Valley.


Last edited by friarfan on Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:27 pm 
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Black&Gold, the day I start putting faith in a college student newspaper is the day I start allowing them to select my stock option plans. May we allow them some time to grow and gain a little experience in the world.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:09 pm 
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Quote:
Lash, I happen to like your ideas. Retaining Temple & adding UMass would go along way toward re-establishing the Big East's regional identity in the Northeast.


I'm afraid it would a long way toward establishing them as Division 1AA.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:34 pm 
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Black&Gold, I was referring to experience and not wisdom. Agree that age has nothing to do with wisdom, however, has much to do about experience.

Most of the Syracuse students are spoided by the easy street and have always been in a built conference. The same students that were in school 11 years ago when the Big East was forming football had a lot of very same concerns.

The Big East was exploring several options from partial membership with the ACC for football to adding football only schools. All of these scenerios were a gamble that eventually worked, however, almost split the conference prior to WVU and Rutgers admitted as all sports members.

Syracuse students need to understand that there are new challeges without clear results. The Big 10 is not going to expand, the ACC is maxed, so what are you going to do.

Hopefully the students are learning important lessons in how to build back from set backs. There will be much more challenge in life and work that will have set backs without easy solutions.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:14 pm 
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Black&Gold, I am not sure how we got off track in our conversation.

I was not stating that college students do not have the right to an opinion. These students are the reason that confernces exist for the players to compete in sports. It is important for all college students to take an interest in what is going on in expansion because it directly impacts thier school.

The point that was being made is if you don't like the new Big East, what is the alternative. Protest? maybe?

Were the students wanting to split from the BB schools?

Do the students understand the pros or cons in doing this? maybe?

For the record, I am on your side and think both Army and Navy should be in the Big East. Not sure that is going to happen unless both your school and Navy improve on the football field. Acquiring a new coach for Army is a good start.

We can debate all the scenerios possible, however, the Big East Presidents will make the choice on future direction. Maybe the Syracuse students will have an influence on those decisions. They have a direct link to one of the presidents.

The fact remains that Syracuse will be in some form of a building football conference because there is just no other place to go. Unfortunately the students can't change that situation regardless of how many articles they write.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 am 
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I should probably post a clarifying post from the heart, since I sense some may not appreciate my BE position, since I occasionally like to poke fun at the BE (smile).

1) I truly and really want the BE to succeed, and can see that happening with commitment on the part of mostly eastern schools. The current quality of the programs are not the prime determinant here, rather the commitment of each schools' administration to really pursue athletic (and especially all-sport) excellence. Use schools like UConn and VTech as models of what can be done in a short span of years.

2) I do not think the conference will ever succeed long-term unless football and basketball interrests are separated, all special incentives and deals are eliminated, and all conference members are treated equally. This is the very heart and soul of a good conference--the reasons other good conferences succeed. Any of the present solutions suggested, including all projected November 4 decisions are viewed by most outsiders as temporary bandaids, and since the patient has an underlying clotting problem, he will keep on bleeding. Unlike the BC to ACC move, the November 4 actions will not resolve the long-term problems facing the BE. Too many continuing conflicts of interest.

3) Since the BE leadership (and I include presidents, AD's, and Tranghese's office collectively) seem unable to alter their vision of a hybrid conference (unless there is a long-range plan they are not yet telling us about), they are open to gentle ridicule by fans outside the BE, other conferences, etc. who are not dumb, because they have other conference models to compare the BE to. I sadly see the glass as half-empty rather than half-full because I am a realist and see trouble ahead--you would have to have your head in the sand to not see trouble ahead. I will hold this view until the leadership makes the decisions reflected in number 2) above, in which case I and many other people will think the glass will change to half-full (smile)...

4) You probably all know me well enough to know that I occasionally like to use metaphors, and some of them may not sit quite right with everyone. In my mind today the collective BE leadership appear to be Keystone Cops. A lot of running around and very entertaining, but disorganized and unfocussed, and not doing much to solve the problem...

I think the advice offered on this board by a large number of posters about the BE is infinitely more wise than many of the BE decisions being reported in the news media, especially the unwillingness to change the model of conflicting memberships, incentives, payouts, interests, etc. This very dated model is the reason schools left, and if continued will be the reason other schools will surely leave if given the opportunity. These people are supposed to be smarter than us, but their actions all indicate the opposite.

I truly wish the BE well, but wish they would have some moxie to take bolder and wiser steps...

:(



Last edited by javaman on Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:09 am 
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Here is a link to an article this morning which shares roughly the same views as I, BlackGold, and others have expressed above, and discusses and compares the relative instability of BE and old C-USA because of their disfunctional hybrid nature. It too is pessimistic about future of BE (and the impotence of the football schools' influence), and expects an eventual split. In a previous post on one of the C-USA threads I expressed the opinion that conference C-USA had actually improved itself stability-wise by moving to an all-sports configuration (that's why the "CUSA is Dead" thread is dated and inaccurate), and this writer (O'Brian) also shares that view.

http://bonesville.net/Articles/DennyOBrien/2003/Oct/102403_OBrien.htm

8-)


Last edited by javaman on Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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