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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:59 pm 
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We know for certain that the BE will soon consist of
  • Cincinnati
  • Connecticut
  • Louisville
  • Pittsburgh
  • Rutgers
  • South Florida
  • Syracuse
  • West Virginia
, right? (Something tells me I've missed one).

Would it benefit the BE at all if it went nuts and invited a whole slew of football-only members, gave them four years to impress, and booted the failures? We keep talking about a 16-team model; why not invite a whole 8-team new division and stage a championship game?

I'm sure there are eight teams that would a) accept an invite and b) possibly fit in.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:57 pm 
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^Why?

Everyone treated like Temple? That's too precarious for any program to participate. I doubt many teams would join under those circumstances. They could be risking a lot if they came out like the situation at Temple. At least staying in CUSA or the MAC or the Sun Belt gives them the knowledge that they won't be given the boot.

The other problem, which is what would prevent this, is where to put these other teams other sports? They wouldn't be allowed to stay in CUSA, the MAC and Sun Belt. So the Big East would have to create an alternative BBall league for these 8 football-only members. That would be a conflict of interests as it would be a competitive bball league with the BE bball league. The BE couldn't be a 24-member bball league. That is absurd. Even if these teams started their own bball league, it still would be a competitive league to the BE bball league. Might be some anti-trust issues if its sponsored or created by the BE.

Then the whole question of stability comes in. What happens to this new bball league for the BE fball only members if part of the teams are allowed to stay and others aren't? Those teams would leave that conference out of contempt for not being allowed to stay in the fball BE conference. This concept lacks praticality. The BE needs to have all-sports memberships in order to take in a whole slough of teams. That's not going to happen as long as the bball league is successful.


Last edited by sportsgeog on Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:34 am 
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Quote:
^Why?
They only would need to do something if it was possible that they would lose their automatic BCS bid.


Quote:
Everyone treated like Temple? That's too precarious for any program to participate. I doubt many teams would join under those circumstances. They could be risking a lot if they came out like the situation at Temple. At least staying in CUSA or the MAC or the Sun Belt gives them the knowledge that they won't be given the boot.
The MAC & Sun Belt each have members who struggle with 1A. They'll take anybody, including a former Big East team.


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The other problem, which is what would prevent this,
You're right...
Quote:
is where to put these other teams other sports? They wouldn't be allowed to stay in CUSA, the MAC and Sun Belt.
...but schools often are in more than one conference.



What if the BE auditioned one or two at a time? Or, to broaden the scope, can any conference audition a school?


Last edited by lsutootnanny on Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:58 am 
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Quote:
They only would need to do something if it was possible that they would lose their automatic BCS bid.


These schools don't demonstrate that they would prevent the BE from losing their BCS bid. Marshall and USM maybe, but the others havent't proven they are consistent winners


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The MAC & Sun Belt each have members who struggle with 1A. They'll take anybody, including a former Big East team.


Okay, take out MAC and Sun Belt and just say CUSA, or for that matter, throw in the WAC and MWC teams. I included all three of those leagues as they are the teams that are located the closest to the BE that are currently 1-A, and I was making reference to all theoretical possibilities. The CUSA is the main source, but, even then lack serious schools that could help improve the BE BCS chances (Only Marshall and USM are proven and consistent winners).

It still lacks practicality. Some of these CUSA teams are showing they are struggling somewhat with Div. 1A reqyuirements. Namely UAB. UCF's attendance isn't spectacular.

Realistically, there wouldn't be that many teams out there that would take such a risk. Actually none. The ones in the MWC would simply just stay and work on the MWC's chances of being a BCS conference.

The BCS has opened the opportunity of getting to the BCS by demonstrating that non-auto bids may be more accessible for the BCS coalition teams. That maybe enough for schools to not want to take this kind of risk. Now if the BE would offer all-sports memberships, then they might possibly join, especially if its closer to the current BE teams.


Quote:
...but schools often are in more than one conference.


Yes, but these schools already have all-sports memberships, except Temple, Army, Navy, and Norte Dame. The BE can't offer all sports memberships to any school, because they are maxed out at 16 teams. The only realistic football-only schools are Temple, Army, and Navy, and theoretically Norte Dame. Until the BE-16 breaks up, the BE is not going to be able to offer all-sports memberships, and teams are not going to willing to orphan out their other sports or risk having that be a possibility for such a move. I don't think a chance to improve one's BCS chances in a conference that would be crowding itself even more, would be worth taking such a risk for any school. If the school couldn't find a spot for their other sports, as they would most definitely be kicked out of their present league (CUSA, MWC, MAC, or whomever), would not want them, there is no chance that any school would even consider this. There are hardly any place where the other sports could go. We've already talked about this extensively.

Temple, Army, Navy, and Norte Dame are the pool of teams among 1-A to choose from for football-only BE membership offers. ND is already a BE member, so they would become an allsports member if they did, but it is not realistic that they would join for football.


Quote:
What if the BE auditioned one or two at a time? Or, to broaden the scope, can any conference audition a school?


Again, same problem with orphaning-out other sports as discussed above. There's no place for their other sports to go, when they get kicked out or leave their present conference. There is no incentive for a team to become independent in other sports. Independent status has no practicality in college sports today. Only if you are ND, Army, Navy does it make sense, and thats only in football, as they are in a conference already. All other sports, and even college football outside of these 3 teams, rely on conference affiliation.

This lacks practicality simply for the reason there is no where for the football-only member's other sports to go. Until the BE can offer all-sports memberships, the only teams they have to choose from are Temple, Army, Navy, and Norte Dame, and current Div. 1-AA teams that play in other non-1-A football conferences for their other sports (A-10, Patriot, etc).

The BE needs to simply concentrate on being successful with their presnt 8 teams. The only members that could join for football-only are Temple, Army, and Navy, or ND joins in for football too. There's is no room for any type of an expansion, whether it be the audition kind or the permanent kind until the BE breaks up. The BE is going to make every effort for the BE-16 to be a success in other sports, just as they are going to make every effort that the BE-8 fball conference is a success.


Last edited by sportsgeog on Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:22 am 
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When BE16 splits, the best move for the BE football members would be to do this:

1)Add Marshall and Temple as all-sports members. Marshall helps the football side, Temple helps the basketball side.

2)Add Army and Navy as football only members.

Then split into 2 divisions for football:

West
Cincinnati
Louisville
Marshall
Pittsburgh
Temple
West Virginia

East
Army
Connecticut
Navy
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse

Play a championship game at the Meadowlands.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:28 pm 
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SportsKC -

Interesting idea but who will want to go see a potential RU versus Marshall championship game in NYC? The problem with the BE now is the lack of big name TV draws. That may change in the next few years if a team wins a BCS game or the BCS championship.

In addition, in order to justify expansion to 12, the BE will need to bring in about $20 million, including the championship game (I´m assuming a current average payout for FB to be $5 million as Miami got about $9 million and Temple about $1 mill from the conference last year?). Would they be able to make that?

I dont think the BE will expand to 12 unless the BCS almost demands they do so or a miracle happens and BOTH PSU AND ND decide to join.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:55 am 
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No the BE does not want Temple and its weak program back.No the BE does not want Marshall.Army and Navy split a football membership.They will enrich tv and draw nD closer.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:57 pm 
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What school, in their right mind, would want to throw 4-6 years of scheduling out the window and risk an "audition" for a conference whose general stability is even a little bit in question?

[Assume that I repeat my anti-over-10 rant here]


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:05 pm 
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The question should be who in the eastern seaboard above the Mason/Dixon line or the entire west coast or the mid west want a conference football championship game?

Championship conference football games are starting to look like a future southern tradition.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:12 pm 
Lash, the MAC does have a championship fb game.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:30 pm 
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Is there any I-A football conference composed in such an exclusive manner?

Also, aren't all "conference championship" descended from the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference?


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:32 pm 
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DogsNCo@cks, but for how long will the MAC keep a championship game. If the attendance rule is enforced, the MAC will no longer qualify with 12 members and that was my rationale for leaving them out.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:01 pm 

Quote:


Also, aren't all "conference championship" descended from the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference?


Interesting! I don't know if the Div. II, Pennsylvania Conference served as a model for 12 team 1-A conferences, but it has been around for decades.

Incidently, it is a "14" team conference for those chatting about "14". Although the Pennsylvania State Colleges (not to be confused with PSU), are in the same conference at Div. II, the schools do vary significantly in size and fb success. Indiana of PA (IUP), in the western division of the conference, has enjoyed much success in recent years.
The PA conference does allow each school to move up to Div. I in a particular sport (exclusive of fb & bb), or down a division in one sport. For example, a campus can play Div. I wrestling, and Div. III women's field hockey, but play Div. II in all other sports. Title IX is applicable on each campus.


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:35 pm 
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Yeah, apparently some time in the early 1960s, the NCAA granted a petition brought forth by the PSAC (or perhaps some predecessor conference with a similar membership) concerning the staging of a post-season divisional playoff game to determine its champion. Presumably the NCAA granted this petition as the conference was competing at the old "College" division level, and never considered possible future ramifications for the "University" (later I-A) level.

Note that it was also around the same time that the NCAA declined an offer (from the NFL?) to be a party to the Sports Broadcasting Act, which facilitated the revenue-sharing model of the modern NFL. Needless to say, the Georgia/Oklahoma/CFA case some two decades later changed everything, and it would only be a few years later that the SEC saw an opportunity (divisional playoff) and seized on the earlier precedent...


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 Post subject: Big East--an audition?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:08 am 
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The compromise, as I see it would be for the BE to agree with 1 or 2 teams to schedule all their O-O-C games with the BE. If the schools had a good enough winning %, they would be allowed to join the new BE FBC when it split off. The schools would not be risking anything, since they would still be members of their current conference.

While I do not believe Army or Navy would add anything to the conference in FB, they might like the opportunity schedule 4 games each with the BE in order balance the home and home schedules.

FBfan


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