East Carolina has good fb fan support, and the dynamics are very difference compared to Temple. East Carolina eventually got hurt by the creation of the BCS. It finally affected some of their recruiting. The campus is on the east coast and is in reasonable distance to much of the NBE. The school now has a medical school and some respectable graduate programs such as Teacher Education.

The NBE is limited in being able to find highly pretigious new members. Other than Notre Dame and perhaps Navy, impressive athletic programs are already in other BCS conferences. Schools from C-USA, and maybe a couple in the MAC, pretty much provide the pool for NBE expansion. No northeast 1-AAs appear to be upgrading in football. The Big East additions of L'ville, Cincy, and USF, were in C-USA. It stands to reason, due to East Carolina's location and history, they would be considered as a BE fb 9th member. East Carolina was frequently mentioned as a prospect in the first round of BE expansion.

People should not be so caught up in ECU's recent football record. That can change with the affiliation, and ECU, as pointed out, has had some notable wins in previous years. If the BE fb schools split a few years down the road, ECU would be a good all sports candidate. ECU has played several of the BE teams in recent years and they are used to playing all three who were former C-USA.

C-USA, and probably for the best, will become more of the segments of the Ole Southwest and the developing gulf coast. LA Tech, North Texas, and possibly Arkansas State, could one day end up in C-USA.

Football only situations are not particular appealing for a school. For ECU though, it may be a wise move for the short-term to garner something better later. For the BE, a fb only addition is all that seems to be acceptable at this point.

<<I will put a bet down that an ECU BCS bowl particpation would get all of the non NCST and NC graduates in North Carolina on board very quickly as fans.
>>

I doubt that very seriously. UNC and NCSU fans will NOT turn into ECU fans. On the other hand, ECU fans have already done a good job following their team to bowls.

Now just doesn't seem a reasonable time to be adding ECU.

Bullet, re-read that quote. The poster you are quoting said that he would put down a bet that ECU BCS bowl participation would get all of the NON NCST and UNC grads very quickly as fans. I seriously doubt that UNC has many football fans outside of its alumni. NC State may have a slight non-alumni fan base, but I'm willing to bet it's pretty small. It's not uncommon to have a North Carolinian pull for Tennessee in football and then root for UNC in basketball. That's how fairweather that state is.

Re: ECU

Lash, et al, I agree with you that ECU has the potential to really take off, in all sports and not just football. I agree that membership in a higher profile league would help, and that they could tap into a number of fans who've not embraced any of the ACC foursome. I will also agree that the ACC members have used their influence to stymie some of the potential that lay ahead for ECU. All givens.

Also given, however, is ECU's status in the social order in North Carolina. In asking my 3 cousins, 2 of my former high school friends and some of my dad's colleagues who all live and work in the Tarheel state ECU is considered, as the movie line goes, "Nice. Nice. Not thrilling, but nice." Locals support the success of the school, but on the whole NCSU and UNC command the attention, the dollars, etc. So none of them have ranked football teams, eh? Neither does Notre Dame, Nebraska, Alabama, Washington... Those unranked teams also drew more than 50k per game the past few seasons, and come from programs that will always have resources ECU will never have.

I should also clarify what I mean by accessing a market regarding Temple and ECU. If the BE splits and the football schools add Temple, we're talking about two seperate TV contracts. While Villanova may be the more popular school overall, Temple games would be splashed all over the area for their participation with the new league. Temple-UConn, Temple-Pitt... While a similar vein could be expressed for ECU, it would require one of two things for the ECU game to be shown instead of/opposite an ACC/NC game:

- The BE games would have to be on another network;
- ECU would have to be involved in a high powered match-up.

I'd expect the BE would want to see how the USF thing plays out for pulling the trigger on this one, but who knows. It may all work out for ECU after all, but they have a tougher road to hoe than either Louisville or Va Tech did. I guess the biggest question is what's it worth to the BE? We'll see, eh?

I believe the Big East is going to have to realize that 8 or 9 teams isn't going to cut it with the BCS...the Big East is going to need at least 10 teams to truly get the respect in the BCS...ECU definitely deserves a shot...I mean Duke Football has been bad for years...and ECU has only been bad for about 3 and 1/2 years...

ECU's slogan for many years was "ECU: Spirit of the East" and that still holds true...ECU is the heart of Eastern North Carolina...there are a lot of ECU fans in all parts of the State...and they support ECU athletics...These are exciting times for people living in and around Greenville, NC. There is so much growth happening in this part of the state, and it goes hand in hand with ECU...Lou Holtz's son, is soon to be the head coach of ECU, and Terry Holland is poised to make a run for the Big East.

Possible Line-up

Cincy
Louisville
Syracuse
WVU
Pitt
USF
UConn
Rutgers
ECU
Memphis



Conference USA has been very good to ECU, but CUSA's Direction is heading West...

I could definitely see some of the Eastern CUSA schools break away from the Western Ones....

Eastern Athletic Conference

UAB
UCF
ECU
Memphis
S. Miss
Marshall
Tulane
Temple
*Army
*Navy

That Conference Configuration could benefit ECU better than the 2005 CUSA line-up..



CUSA

Tulsa
Rice
SMU
UTEP
Houston
La Tech
North Texas
Ark. State
*Mid TN State


Ok...maybe i'm rambling off topic, but ECU does deserve a Big East FB only invite... ;D

Army has left CUSA.

Navy has rejected invitations.

Army and Navy will not be in CUSA.

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Quinn, if the Big East were to ever split, Army and Navy if agreed would make a great 12 team alignment and allow the best of all worlds to have a 10 league all sports for basketball. A league where all basketball teams could play round robin. Temple and Memphis would probably be idea in that situation to go with the 8 BE football schools.

Bullet, I can see your concerns for Conf USA losing members. Unfrotuantley college conferences are very fluid these days and the Big East is not out of the question for losing teams as well. This expecially makes Conf USA vulnerable to future raids.

The thing that may stablize the conferences is ironically the BCS. I do think the BCS will not just look at a conference that has one or two good teams at the top and will look at the conference as a whole. This may be good for Conf USA raiding as the Big East will look to keep the 8 teams and stablize for a while. Looking a head to the new Big East, there will be six bowl teams for the new members. This is the type of things that look good to the BCS especially if the teams do reasonably well in the post season.

Gunnerfan, this leads to your comments and see your point on Temple versis Villanova. Villanova probably does not have the capital to move up and is content to remain with the basketball schools if a split were to occur. Not sure Temple will be around. If so, maybe Temple could be part of a eastern sports league someday.

DogsNthingys, totally agree with your assessement on ECU. Regardless if Big East is in the future plans, hopefully the fans of ECU will see the school get back to previous levels in football. The fans deserve it for sticking with the team.

Nobody answered my question on when the 12 game schedule will be approved by the NCAA. This probably has the most impact on BE expanding with a 9th footballl team.

BCS may have the opposite impact. The rules established could encourage the MWC or BE to expand to get or keep automatic bids. Its hard to imagine the Big 5 with 10-12 schools allowing a weaker conference with 8 teams to keep an auto bid. I think they will be weighted in some way give an advantage to a conference with 10 or more teams (fair enough since a 12 team conference has 1/12th of a bid per school and 8 team has 1/8th) but to not give an advantage to the Big 12/SEC/ACC over the Pac 10 and mathematically challenged 10.

In these days of Title IX, 8 really doesn't work well for sports other than football.

Tulane is very excited about being with the Texas privates. They would never join this eastern conference with ECU, UCF, etc.. Even if a substantial number of Texas players weren't on their roster, they want to be with like schools.

Even though Quinn and footballgod will probably disagree with me on this (and a good number of regular posters on this board as well), I can see Rutgers going to the Big Ten. I know it sounds stupid. Rutgers is a doormat. Who the heck wants the Big East's doormat, right? Well, consider this:

Rutgers would give the Big Ten another patsy to beat up on. The Big Ten would basically be at the same level of competition it is now. If Notre Dame is in, Notre Dame's slide may continue even more in the Big Ten and the team won't be nearly as profitable as in the past. That's why a move to the Big East makes sense for ND. ND would have lots of teams to beat up on and be able retain its powerhouse status pretty much. Also, Rutgers would just be another Big Ten doormat and would have the expectations of a doormat. Or consider this possibility: Let's say that ND does well in the Big Ten, but let's say it's on the same level of competitiveness that Michigan State is at right now, and Michigan State slides to where Illinois currently is in the standings once ND joins the Big Ten. That's another thing to consider. Rutgers might beat Michigan State or Purdue once in a blue moon, but not on a regular basis.
Another thing to consider is divisional alignment. ND might be very picky about which division they're in and who their permanent opponents from the opposite division will be. Rutgers only demand would be to be in the exact division as Penn State. Everything else is fine with them. Rutgers would be ecstatic just to be in the Big Ten for the most part.
Other things to consider would be that Rutgers would off the Big Ten two things that would be very tempting for them:
1. Huge media market (even though basically very few in New Jersey follow Rutgers, many in NJ have followed teams like Penn State in the past)
2. Access to a new recruiting hotbed. (surprisingly, New Jersey has a lot of good HS football talent.)

With Rutgers in the Big Ten, you could have this setup in the Big East or the future eastern all-sports conference:
Notre Dame
UConn
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Syracuse
Louisville
Cincinnati
USF
East Carolina
Memphis
Southern Miss.
UCF

Not a bad lineup, IMO.

A couple of thoughts:
(a) Notre Dame turning down the Big 10 a few years ago was not good, long-term judgment. The reasons are understandable, but their self vision of tradition, lofty independence, and preference for non-shared revenue, gets overstated and its value has limits. The past will not necessarily determine the future. Army had glory days too! The University of Chicago was once a Big 10 member.
(b) It needs to be noted the BE, when they did retrieve C-USA replacements, turned down Memphis. There is a reason: The school, geographically, is far away from most of the BE. Actually, their former conference brethern, L'ville and Cincy, are not particularly hunched up to them either. A bb case could be made for UAB almost as much as Memphis. Memphis actually has an ideal location as C-USA is currently structured. If far away East Carolina left, it would not be a problem for Memphis. Memphis natural rivals include Southern Miss, UAB, Tulane, and maybe Houston. They are close to OOC schools such as Ole Miss, MSU, Ark. State, and Vandy. Memphis is a deep south, gulf region, gateway to the southwest school. It is the southern Mississippi River, not the Ohio River, midwest, and certainly not the northeast. Unless the BE goes to 12 fb, and adds two or three more to its southern flank, Memphis is less than a logical choice. East Carolina, and perhaps Marshall, on the other hand, make more sense. While Tommy West has got Memphis with a winning record, and they are home to the Liberty Bowl, Memphis does not have a sustained winning fb tradition, nor do they have an enthusiatic and major following, compared to some other regional campuses. If C-USA looks like a stretch from ElPaso to Greenville, North Carolina, the BE may want to be careful and not look too much the same.

Bullet, I don't see how any of the other BCS conferences care about the size of another conference concerning BCS. Most of the big revenue for SEC, Big 10, new ACC comes from TV. Sure the Big East shares more BCS revenue over larger conference that do not get multiple BCS bids, however, the BE makes less on TV contracts and so average revenue share per team is less than the other BCS conferences.

I do think it will make a difference in size of a conference that is not a power such as SEC or Big 12 to maintain BCS or get BCS membership.

My bets are that MWC will get BCS membership long before the new Conf USA and it will come down to which conference expanded with 9 verses 12 members.

Attendance is a big issue and the Big East has a rule that each school must average 25,000. This is 10,000 more than the NCAA.

Primary reason to have high attendance is to encourage SOS schedules with home and home series.

The BCS will review and look at a conference from top to bottom to avoid having the situation in the old ACC with Florida State carry the conference for years.

Now that the ACC is not in jeoporady as the BCS would never have excluded the ACC, you will most likely see more emphases put on top to bottom stenght of a conference.

The BE should excel in this areas as 6 of the new 8 are going bowling. This has to be the highest percentage of any conference members attending bowls.

Now if the majority can win, the new Big East will be getting started on the right footing for the future.

Cant resist adding an insult to ACC/ESPN. Since they cant wait until next year to see how the Big East will perform, I have a suggestion for the ESPN/ABC.

Maybe the BE would consider removing its BCS bid, if the networks provided a similar issue to the Alberts, Corso, James of world on performance as well. If you dont get a certain amount of projections correct on team performance you are on the clock for your job. Two years to improve or your out.

Of course its the networks supporting this as they want to lower the image of the Big East to help with the contact.

Since ABC paid so much for the new over hyped ACC contracts, the network lost its BCS due to no money left. Love it ABC you got what you deserved. Now if Fox can just overtake ESPN, a lot of those bashing TV guys may have to do some serious as@ kissing in the future if they want to keep up with college football.

<<Bullet, I don't see how any of the other BCS conferences care about the size of another conference concerning BCS. >>

They wouldn't like the idea of a BE team having 1 guaranteed slot for 8 teams while they had 1 guaranteed slot for 12 (or 11 or 10). They don't care about the number of teams, they care about the ratio of $ that conference's teams get.

Sorry Bullet just dont buy this argument. If anything the other BCS conferences want less teams sharing the wealth especially teams that compete in the same region as the other BCS schools.

<<especially teams that compete in the same region as the other BCS schools. >>

That's a good point, but since some of the BE schools already compete in the same area, especially for recruiting, they would probably want the BE schools, who already earn less TV $, to stop earning more BCS $ than their schools. (1/8 of 14.5 million is more than 1/12).