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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:07 pm 
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It is time for Notre Dame to join a conference. IMO this question left the world of opinion & entered the realm of fact when the AP pulled out of the BCS. Consider the following:

1. A selection committee (one of the stupidest ideas to be proposed for college football) will in all likelihood replace the BCS formula for bowl & championship selection.

2. Conference representatives on this selection committee will serve as advocates for the interests of their conference.

3. Most years Notre Dame will not have a representative on this selection committee.

If it's even remotely a close call, can you imagine any conference representative advocating ND over a team from their own conference? As representatives advocate for their own, negotians will replace advocacy as it does aon any comittee. ND will not be part of these negotiations.

All of this means that ND will have to be an overwhelminly obvious choice for the championship game or for selection to another bowl in order to be picked. The Big Ten saw to it that Iowa was selected over ND a few years ago when ND was BCS eligible & this will only get worse with a committee.

As bad as it is, the current BCS selection process has some degree of objectivity to it. Polls are taken which include writers who do not directly represent any conference or team. Computer rankings factor in mathematical formulas, which can't be swayed by pressure (although they have their own biases built in). At the end of the day, 2 teams get to the championship game based on a formula for all to see & to debate. Behind closed doors . . . Well, you get the picture. Smoke-filled back rooms & all that.

If the selection committee option is put in place, Notre Dame will be completely marginalized as a BCS power.The question is not if they will go to a conference, it's which one. Big Ten? Big East? MAC? Ivy League? The choice is theirs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:20 pm 
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<<1. A selection committee (one of the stupidest ideas to be proposed for college football) will in all likelihood replace the BCS formula for bowl & championship selection.>>

One of the stupidest ideas-I wholeheartedly agree!

<<2. Conference representatives on this selection committee will serve as advocates for the interests of their conference.>>

Obviously.

<<3. Most years Notre Dame will not have a representative on this selection committee.>>

Unfortunately, you are wrong here. They will probably get a seat every year. And if not, unless someone shoots down the trial balloon, they are going to put the 4 bowl reps on the committee. That means 3 representatives for Notre Dame.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:48 pm 
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Unless you have a playoff for div 1 football, you have to pick the best of the options available for team selection.

First of all replace the computer polls ASAP. I am computer guy and computers dont think. Computers can't understand a bad Saturday performance from a team or if injuries have occured the previous week etc.

Replace the coaches poll ASAP. AP was smart to get out. Coaches have a hard time on the bias issue. Texas over California is proof the coaches poll needs to be through out now. Other integrity issues are obvouis with coaches not revealing the votes.

This leads into the best option of having a committee to select the teams. Committee members would be required to reveal votes.

Committee members would be selected from every region and every division 1A football conference.

It would be very difficult for a cross regional committee and cross division 1A football conference members to be bias to any team.

It would not necessarily guarantee the best two teams would be selected for the title game, however, the bias part would be significantly reduced.

Additionally the current non BCS conferences would stand a better chance of getting one of the 4 at large bids. In the case of Boise State or Louisivlle this year would most likely have received a bid over a current BCS conference team.

The committee apporach would also be able to take in the opinions of the fans. Fans may be right or wrong however are the reason the networks pay the BCS the rights to the games.

A website of fan opinions could be produced for use by the committee members similiar to Donald Trumps recent Apprentice choice was aided by use of fan support. Donald selected the winner, however, the influence of the audiance must have been an impact.

If the committee were in place and the additonal BCS bowl would have been in place next year using this years teams this would have been the most likely teams selected:

USC(Pac 10), Auburn (SEC), Va Tech (ACC), Michigan (Big 10), Oklahoma (Big 12), Louisiville (Big East)

At large bids: Texas, California, Utah, Boise State



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:51 pm 
Notre Dame has always been able to find their way onto select committees. They did this with the BCS setup in the first place, and were able to garner approval for their own unique criteria. Also, their current or future tie-ins with the BE may render them additional support in select committee settings. However, I agree with poster's (FriarFan) general premise in the following aspect:
(a) Established conferences, particularly those with no direct interest in Notre Dame's future, will be less reluctant to give the Irish more priviledges particularly when it may be at the expense of one of their own
(b) Revenue is becoming a more critical issue, and postering for self-interests, and the media scrutiny of special deals will become more acute
(c) If bowl executives become major players in future select committees, then the selection process will be further compromised whereby favored schools will have an edge over those excellent teams with lower profiles; in this regard, the bowl system and the selecting of the very best, may be at odds; the select committee has to be established in some way to maximize objectivity; a very difficult endeavor
(d) Notre Dame has been treated as a conference unto itself; it needs to fall within the criteria that would be awarded to other current and future independents, i. e. Navy, Army, and Temple.
(e) Notre Dame's "game" of special treatment is getting exposed, their clout has a bit diminished, and others in the college sports establishment are feeling more comfort in being able to criticize their favored status and self-serving acts.
(f) The Notre Dame enablers, i. e. Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State, plus the BE are beginning to be asked "what do you expect to gain in return?" The NBC appearances help who the most?



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:57 pm 
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The BCS already considered (implemented ?) reduced payout to Notre Dame in exchange for an annual payout (given that revenue distribution to conference schools works essentially the same way). It sounds like including Notre Dame in the selection might become a point of contention as well.

Someone should charge admission to these meetings!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:45 pm 
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No problem for ND.The BE will give them what ever they need or want,because the deal benefits the BE as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:25 pm 
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tigershartwo, that is assumming the Notre Dame will help the new Big East basketball contract make money. If not its splitsville and Notre Dame is stuck between a rock and hard place with or without its good name.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:49 pm 
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Still waiting for proof that ND has any particular interest in scheduling NBE football games.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:09 pm 
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Call Mike T he said it in an interview in dec 2004.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:20 pm 
When Notre Dame schedules 7 or 8 (not 2 or 3) BE games ( inclusive of/among USF, UC, UL, Pitt, 'Cuse, Rutgers, UCONN, & WVU) per season, then it will mean something. MT's "pressing" (media's word for pleading) for an extra game or two over the years means little. Either they play round-robin for the BE crown, or they don't. They will not.
Perhaps the BE visions some value in an extra game or two with Notre Dame in terms of TV exposure and revenue. And, there may be lingering and faint BE hope ND moves a step closer for eventual BE fb. The bottom line, the games will not count in conference standing for ND or the teams they play who are BE fb members.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:24 pm 
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Is it just me or didn't Notre dmae just load up their schedule with ACC teams?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:38 pm 
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ND has scheduled more ACC teams , but they're rotating among several conferences. The NBE is not one of them however.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:55 am 
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Any Notre Dame decision to play a few Big East football teams only helps Notre Dame maintain its special status and possibly keeping the 16 member conference together.

As a Big East football all sports fan, I really dont want to see Notre Dame and the conference compromise. Its all sports or keep current status.

This will just ensure the split is more likely to take place in 5 years.

This week I have finally become decisive as a fan and really want the Big East football schools to split and form a 12 team all sports conference.

A 12 team all sports conference would come more close to helping the remaining 6 eastern teams have a foot print. It may not be the best situation if Penn State were included, however, PSU is gone and the best alternate solution would be for the a core 6 eastern teams be in one division and Lousville and South Florida in the other division with four members yet to be determined.

In the long run, I am not sure Notre Dame is going to continue to help any conference including the Big 10 if the current slide continues.

After the Insight Bowl, the Arizona Republic reported that the mystic of Notre Dame was gone after the first few minutes of the game.

Each year and each new bowl game Notre Dame exposes the reality the school is only a shadow of the old days.

A 12 team Big East football conference would be better than a 9 team BE football conference that included Notre Dame.

So all of you non BE fans dont worry about Notre Dame being required to help the new Big East football conference, I think there are four schools in the south that will do just fine.

Five years is not that long, however, can seem like a life time when you want to stablize and get results.

I look forward to Notre Dame being forced into the Big 10 and joining Northwestern at the bottom. Sort of pay backs for all the issue that caused the Big East to lose Miami, BC, and Va Tech.







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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:33 pm 
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ND is spending millions on its football coaching.They want to improve their record.Their loss to USC does not seem as bad it had during the season after watching the Orange bowl.To the power people in the BE ,the ND 3 game series per year is a big deal.While some fans may not like the ND / BE deals for games and bowls is not going away.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:41 pm 
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Notre Dame needs to swallow its pride and go join the Big 10. It would be their best choice, and it allows them to keep some rivals on their schedule. And they still will get national attention more in the Big 10 than they would in the Big East.


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