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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:24 pm 
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/stewart_mandel/01/24/new.acc/


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:51 pm 
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It is strange to see BB gaames and scores like Florida Sate-Miami and Va Tech-Ga Tech. Overall, a laudatory article about ACC expansion. It certainly was an interesting football season.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:03 pm 
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Looking back at the realignment of the ACC, I give it an A.

Everytihng has been great with Miami and VPI.

Boston College looks promising, but I still have hesitations with their addition, being so far away from the next ACC team.

Unfortunately, the only programs that might have been better than BC would be South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, etc...schools from the SEC. That wasn't happening and for academic reasons, BC tops the list.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:34 pm 
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As a Virginia Tech fan and alum, I am extremely satisfied. I know that there will be the occasional bump in the road and there will always be expansion naysayers, but when people evaluate this expansion ten years from now, I believe most will feel that it was a great success.

In the short term, Virginia Tech and Miami are showing that they are every bit as worthy to be a part of the ACC as any of the other members.

Quinn, I am not that enamored with Boston College being part of the league, either. I would have preferred West Virginia. Not even taking into account distance, BC should be playing Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:10 pm 
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Of course the original plan was to include BC and Syracuse but not your school. I don't know why BC seemed more attractive than WV, certainly not the basis of football attendance or travel. Must have been TV market, as if anyone in NE cared intensely about football.


Last edited by westwolf on Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:31 pm 
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BC was only in the ACC bc of the Boston market. Also they had the best football and bb team combo in the BE. But I think Temple would have been better for the ACC, fits the Duke/Wake model of school, good hoops, rival for Maryland, and would have brought the Philadelphia market which is larger than Boston.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:39 pm 
I said from the get-go that Miami and VPI would be great for the ACC. I concur regarding reservations about Boston College simply due to travel.

I still hold that #12 should have been West Virginia. I do not buy this stuff the school is not academic. That is stereotyping. While WVU is not "Harvard in the Hills", it should "pass" for purposes of an athletic conference. There are a host of institutions between Portland, Maine and Key West, Florida, that can claim to be more academic than the beloved "Miami". Miami certainly was not brought into the ACC for its Oceanography program or its Foreign Language Department; it was football.

West Virgina vs Va Tech, or Maryland, or Virginia, have been common and natural. They deliver attendance and fan interest, be it fb or bb.

West Virginia vs Clemson, or NC State, or Georgia Tech, sounds pretty darn good most years.

Of the remaining BE schools, West Virgina clearly offered the strongest base in fans and would generate the most intense rivalries.

While BC is well-respected, for the long term, they may regret their ACC move, and disconnecting with Syracuse, Rutgers, and UCONN.

Agree, the ACC was attracted to "Boston" and the NE. And, there may be some proven profit with it. But travel is permanent, and in suttle ways, strains will eventually show. BC may be good for the ACC, but am not so sure the ACC is best for BC.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:06 pm 
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Overall its best to be conservative and see how the fans and coaches like the 12 team ACC in five or more years down the road. Way too early to call this thing a total success.

For now would provide a grade of B in expansion as revenue did in fact increase or remain stable for the orginial 9. That was the big selling point promised to gain acceptance for expansion.

Up to now were in agreement that BC looked very misplaced.

The orgininal Big East of 14 members is no dought proving much stonger than than the 9 team ACC conference in both basketball and football. With Va Tech and Miami placing first and second there is no argument on which conference was better in football. Its on the field proof and thats all I need.

Basketball is more revealing as a shocked basketball world is watching Miami and Va Tech placed in the top five after both were regular bottom dwellers in the Big East.

What does that mean for the future?

ACC desperatly needs BC basketball program especially if the school becomes a number one seed this year in the NCAA tournament. How many ACC teams really deserve to be in the NCAA this year. If you include VA Tech and Miami from the ACC you almost have to give the Big East 7 or 8 bids.

Besides the Big East can stand to lose a top basketball school like BC when you have Louisiville and Cincinnati coming on board next year.

I think round robin in both football or basketball creates such intense rivals that the Big East may sooner than latter be back on the heels of the ACC for football and has already long sence past the grand ole league in basketball without the new comers.

Summary, Thanks Miami or better yet officials for running Miami when you were already in the best league. What did you gain by joining the ACC? For now the ACC just looks like the old Big East with maybe not as good in basketball.

The ACC and Big East will both prosper with the new members. I just get a sneaky feeling the Big East schools will be more content in the future as a group of schools.

One major point, the Big East does have round robin football to unite and stabilize the football portion of the conference.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:48 pm 
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Their first intercollegiate football games were played 128 years apart! Bet no other conference can offer an annual game like that!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:47 pm 
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Quote:

ACC desperatly needs BC basketball program especially if the school becomes a number one seed this year in the NCAA tournament.


Desperately, Lash? How you go on at times. The ACC doesn't desparately need any outside BB program given its normal 4-5 teams in the top 25. Now, I don't go around knocking the fine BB programs of the BE and NBE, but line your best 12 up against the ACC, and I'd bet on our boys to win at least 7.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:06 am 
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Lash, you make a good point and I do agree that over time some good football and basketball rivalries will develop in the new Big East. Given their proximity, WVU, Pittsburgh, Louisville, and Cincinnati have a chance to build a very intense rivalry.

I would stop short of saying that the Big East was clearly better than the ACC prior to expansion. Schools such as Maryland, NC State, and Clemson did not live up to their billing this year. I think that the ACC will have an adjustment period. Also, Tech and Miami being able to win basketball games is not a poor reflection on the ACC. It is the ability of those kids to play tough and compete. Those schools will recruit and get better over time. I have read articles that speak of renewed interest in basketball at both Virginia Tech and Miami due to ACC membership. Fans are revved up for ACC basketball where they treated Big East basketball with disinterest.

Keep this in mind as well, though the new Big East will be loaded, somebody has to lose games. The Conference will stratify with a top, middle, and bottom like all other conferences.


Last edited by bchokie on Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:07 am 
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<<With Va Tech and Miami placing first and second there is no argument on which conference was better in football. Its on the field proof and thats all I need.>>

It is obvious. Miami lost 3 games in the ACC after crusing through the BE except for their probation years.
On the football field, the ACC proved it is clearly superior. And improving their strength at the top with VT and Miami makes it an "A" for football.




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:47 pm 

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Given their proximity, WVU, Pittsburgh, Louisville, and Cincinnati have a chance to build a very intense rivalry.



This is a good point, BCHokie. These four have an opportunity to develop multiple, intense rivalries in the region. The BE did a good job adding L'ville and Cincy. Even had the BE not had defections, these two would have been a plus.

If the BE splits, and the football contingent goes for "12" as in the ACC, there are schools the BE could add, and even offer the ACC some recruiting and media competition. While East Carolina, Temple, and perhaps upgrades at places such as UMASS and Delaware, may not sound thrilling, five years from now, there may be attractive options, though few.

It is clear the BE helped Va Tech get to the forefront. I would not dismiss it happening with another or others.

I think the BE football schools would do better eventually splitting and expanding, and those bb only schools have enough strength to stand unto themselves and even add to their membership. There is merit in terms of "like-minded" being associated formally and their profiles have an appreciable degree of consistency.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:52 pm 
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Quote:


This is a good point, BCHokie. These four have an opportunity to develop multiple, intense rivalries in the region. The BE did a good job adding L'ville and Cincy. Even had the BE not had defections, these two would have been a plus.

If the BE splits, and the football contingent goes for "12" as in the ACC, there are schools the BE could add, and even offer the ACC some recruiting and media competition. While East Carolina, Temple, and perhaps upgrades at places such as UMASS and Delaware, may not sound thrilling, five years from now, there may be attractive options, though few.

It is clear the BE helped Va Tech get to the forefront. I would not dismiss it happening with another or others.

I think the BE football schools would do better eventually splitting and expanding, and those bb only schools have enough strength to stand unto themselves and even add to their membership. There is merit in terms of "like-minded" being associated formally and their profiles have an appreciable degree of consistency.



Good point.


When you look at the New Big East, you see some good rivalries.

WVU, Pitt, Louisville and Cincy.

But the rest of the footprint could use some support for rivalries and conference exposure.

I look at UMass as a potential option since the conference, the only one based int he northeast, is without a school for the Boston market. UMass could fill that void:

UMass, UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers

Need a 10th?

ECU might seem appelaing to some since USF was admitted.

I still look at USF as a poor investment. The Big East lost Miami but still felt that they needed to add a Florida school, even if it's one outside of Miami, FSU or Florida.

The Big East should just leave Florida alone with USF as the lone member.

The 9th and 10th school options aren't all that attractive when you mention I-AA schools like UMass.

But if UMass was the 9th, then the 10th option should again REINFORCE the current Big East footprint.

Options?
Temple: replace lost Villanova market, school will have had a few years of MAC football experience, adds rivalry potential for Rutgers and Pitt again, adds a strong basketball program.

Delaware: another upgrade but a worht candidate

Ohio: on the radar with Solich in charge. Let's see how they do.


All in all there are few good options. When USF is considered for the #8 spot, you know there are few quality options left.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:17 pm 
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I agree that USF might have not been the best idea, but they were the "best" florida option at the time...I Definitely feel that Memphis should have been added along with the other 3 schools...Memphis has a great rivalry with Louisville and certainly would compete well in both Basketball and Football...

ECU has been passed over a few times by the Big East...and many ECU fans want to be in the Big East at least in Football, ECU has a "metro" population of only about 110,000, but the ECU Following clearly exceeds the needs for the Big East...ECU has played for many years now Big East Teams...ECU deserves a shot at the Big Time...


I would like to see:

Big Division

USF (FL)
Pittsburgh (PA)
Louisville (KY)
Memphis (TN)
Rutgers (NJ)
Syracuse (NY)

East Division

ECU (NC)
UCONN (CN)
UCF (FL)
West Virginia (WV)
Cincy (OH)
Marshall (WV)

Championship Game: Tampa, FL

I think with this set-up, Football would greatly be strengthend, and a BCS berth would be maintained...
I think it would compete well with the other BCS Conferences...

This Conference would have great rivalries...

ECU-Marshall
UCF-USF
Memphis-Louisville
Louisville-Cincy
Pitt-WV
WV-Marshall
UCONN-Syracuse
Syracuse-Rutgers

Sounds like a good decision to me...


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