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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:39 pm 
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MVC already has a baseball affiliate in Dallas Baptist - if SMU had to go that route it does have some merit. There's also an odd possibility if they drop football and not much else changes - the Sun Belt, who could then pursue a third football-only member, or even get UTA to restart its program.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:05 am 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
DMN opinion piece suggesting that if AAC member SMU cannot keep up with D-1 FB player compensation that it should consider either dropping down one or two FB divisions or eliminate scholarship FB altogether and concentrate on D-1 BB.If they would do something like that what D-1 BB only conference would they be interested in?Link at http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnew ... quest.html"

The content certainly renders a pessimistic outlook pertaining to SMU. But SMU is not alone in having to cope with the increasing struggles of schools in sports outside the defined P5.

While the P5 have the vast amount of distributed money and the backing to major players such as networks, bowls, and advertisers; the G5 and others outside the P5 really dropped the ball on all this. On some stuff, the G5 could have called the bluff on some P5 assertions. While they'll lose in the short-term, the G5, as a group need to stop cooperating in scheduling with the P5. Don't be fodder in exchange for money. P5 need G5 for their agenda in multiple sports, including fb.
While the P5 has political power, G5 schools are also in congressional districts. They need to demand congressional inquiries and file anti-trust suits. The dirty secret is that the G5 and the like have been feeding on P5 scraps for so long, they have been conditioned and addicted to being totally subservient.
The services academies are part of the G5/independents. They certainly have political power in speaking up.
The compensation of players movement need not turn into a P5 vs G5 fight of which the G5 shall naturally lose. Rather, let it be a battle within the P5 itself. There will be P5 schools that will show resistance and the lack of means to adapt significant player compensations; and already, there are some major conference divisions festering on this issue.
What the major conferences have done is define who are entitled; which are themselves. They don't want new conferences or a host of new schools added to the mix. They've defined it as 65 schools, and will continue to create conditions whereby those outside this group will lack the means, revenue, and influence, to open the door. There was a reason not to treat BYU, for example, as a OOC power game.
The biggest failure is the NCAA, a group supposed to have been representing the interests of 'all' of them. Their propensity in favoring certain schools and conferences diminished their credibility. They have a long record of not being even-handed in investigating corruption and administering sanctions. They were reactive as to the long complaints of P5 schools, rather than being proactive in administering needed reforms. They've allowed outside forces, with the enticement of contracted money, dictate changes contrary to stability as well as abolishing the concept of reasonable equity in opportunity.

P5 wants to be NFL-'light', a dangerous path whereby they get blinded in purpose while chasing the almighty dollar down the river of no return.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:21 am 
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You have brought up some good points. What I would say is that it is part the NCAA fought but more the Media's fought. We all know that money is what has driven College FB to this point and will continue to evolve into other sports soon. For all the good that the Media has done with exposure, it has allowed the media to determine within its self who the top conferences are. ESPN signed deals with certain conference and did not with others which allowed more exposure to certain schools which lead to more demand for those schools. Take for instance, Wake Forest, this is a small private school, that doesn't have a large enrollment of students. They just happened to be in the ACC when the ACC started getting more TV exposure. Wake has little history of winning programs (a few not many). They do not have a large fan base. Now compare that to a school like Texas St. That has a enrollment of over 30,000 students. But due to the lack of exposure for their conference, they do not get any exposure on College pregame shows or weekly sports shows (whereas schools in P5 conferences do). This hurts in recurring, and there is no way to overcome this unless the Go5 Conferences band together instead of trying to destroy each other. The Go5 needs to work with the media and develop a Media plan to get more exposure for all 5 conferences. Sign a deal with a up and coming sports network like (CBS Sports channel, or Fox Sports, or NBC Sports). Make a deal to have weekly pregame shows and talk shows and increase their fan base by increasing their media exposure. The demand for live sports is there for these conferences to take. CBS Sports channel and NBS sports channel are showing D-11 games through the week just to have live content.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:44 am 
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DMN blog article with comments from SMU AD apparently responding to suggestion that SMU should consider dropping out of FBS FB if they cannot be financially competitive. Link at http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnew ... glory.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:51 am 
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I thought they spent a lot of money just to get to the Big East. What, now because the Big East dissolved and the concept of AQ died, now SMU can't "keep up?"

But don't worry, because $MU i$ going to do whatever it take$!

I don't know if SMU succeeds in joining a major. I do think there will be a new "best of the rest" conference, though. If it enhances television revenue and playoff access or considerations, there's definitely going to be some discussions about what those outside of those four or five majors can do. No way are all in the MWC and AAC feeling like they are equals with their Go5 mates.

So far, we've got the following openly vying for access into the majors: BYU, SMU, and UConn. Cincy and Colorado State have indirectly talked about it via their venue projects. How's that for a core?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:41 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I don't know if SMU succeeds in joining a major. I do think there will be a new "best of the rest" conference, though. If it enhances television revenue and playoff access or considerations, there's definitely going to be some discussions about what those outside of those four or five majors can do. No way are all in the MWC and AAC feeling like they are equals with their Go5 mates.

So far, we've got the following openly vying for access into the majors: BYU, SMU, and UConn. Cincy and Colorado State have indirectly talked about it via their venue projects. How's that for a core?


Would it be an absolutely ridiculous idea if the AAC with its current 12 schools added 6 Western schools and created the first 18-school conference with 3 divisions? Let's say they add BYU, Colorado St, Boise St, San Diego St, UNLV, and New Mexico (looking at both football, basketball, markets, etc.)

American Conference
West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, BYU, Colorado St, New Mexico
Central: Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, Navy
East: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Temple, East Carolina, USF, UCF

Conference schedule: play 9 conference games - all 5 division opponents plus 2 from each of the other divisions


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:36 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I don't know if SMU succeeds in joining a major. I do think there will be a new "best of the rest" conference, though. If it enhances television revenue and playoff access or considerations, there's definitely going to be some discussions about what those outside of those four or five majors can do. No way are all in the MWC and AAC feeling like they are equals with their Go5 mates.

So far, we've got the following openly vying for access into the majors: BYU, SMU, and UConn. Cincy and Colorado State have indirectly talked about it via their venue projects. How's that for a core?


Would it be an absolutely ridiculous idea if the AAC with its current 12 schools added 6 Western schools and created the first 18-school conference with 3 divisions? Let's say they add BYU, Colorado St, Boise St, San Diego St, UNLV, and New Mexico (looking at both football, basketball, markets, etc.)

American Conference
West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, BYU, Colorado St, New Mexico
Central: Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, Navy
East: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Temple, East Carolina, USF, UCF

Conference schedule: play 9 conference games - all 5 division opponents plus 2 from each of the other divisions


Navy's interesting...while I doubt their AAC future is long, and a lot of why they joined the Big East in the first place was because of the attached AQ. I think they're just honoring their word now...they got to stay out in the west for their recruiting purposes. I wonder if any new bloc would work with them, or vice versa.

If a new "best of" emerges before someone is invited elsewhere, I think it's:

BYU
SMU
UConn
UC
CSU
AFA
UCF
USF
UNM
SDSU
Houston
Wyo

UConn's a tough sell, because they'll be the ones out on the island. They're out on an island in virtually any conference not called the ACC at this point, though. Money, access, and not falling behind other programs will push them to make this work.

Noticeably missing is UNLV. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they would live with this core. The football doesn't bring anything, and basketball is covered by other programs in the group. Maybe if the conference moves beyond 12, they get a spot, but I think those old core WAC schools who helped form MWC drop UNLV for "eastern accessories."


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:43 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
BePcr07 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I don't know if SMU succeeds in joining a major. I do think there will be a new "best of the rest" conference, though. If it enhances television revenue and playoff access or considerations, there's definitely going to be some discussions about what those outside of those four or five majors can do. No way are all in the MWC and AAC feeling like they are equals with their Go5 mates.

So far, we've got the following openly vying for access into the majors: BYU, SMU, and UConn. Cincy and Colorado State have indirectly talked about it via their venue projects. How's that for a core?


Would it be an absolutely ridiculous idea if the AAC with its current 12 schools added 6 Western schools and created the first 18-school conference with 3 divisions? Let's say they add BYU, Colorado St, Boise St, San Diego St, UNLV, and New Mexico (looking at both football, basketball, markets, etc.)

American Conference
West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, BYU, Colorado St, New Mexico
Central: Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, Navy
East: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Temple, East Carolina, USF, UCF

Conference schedule: play 9 conference games - all 5 division opponents plus 2 from each of the other divisions


Navy's interesting...while I doubt their AAC future is long, and a lot of why they joined the Big East in the first place was because of the attached AQ. I think they're just honoring their word now...they got to stay out in the west for their recruiting purposes. I wonder if any new bloc would work with them, or vice versa.

If a new "best of" emerges before someone is invited elsewhere, I think it's:

BYU
SMU
UConn
UC
CSU
AFA
UCF
USF
UNM
SDSU
Houston
Wyo

UConn's a tough sell, because they'll be the ones out on the island. They're out on an island in virtually any conference not called the ACC at this point, though. Money, access, and not falling behind other programs will push them to make this work.

Noticeably missing is UNLV. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they would live with this core. The football doesn't bring anything, and basketball is covered by other programs in the group. Maybe if the conference moves beyond 12, they get a spot, but I think those old core WAC schools who helped form MWC drop UNLV for "eastern accessories."


No Boise? I'd swap Wyoming out for them.

Truthfully though, I think the top of the American is better off in their current configuration than trying to build a coast-to-coast league with the best best of the MWC/BYU. The travel would be brutal and the quality of teams is not too dramatically different from the teams they are currently aligned with and the footprint they have is more manageable.

What might be more likely is for BYU get frustrated that they can't win a conference and get access to the big bowl games and with their bridges with the MWC already burned they seek out the American. There would be some serious deal making--does BYU give up tv and revenue concessions? Does the American insist on all sports membership? Who would be school #14? Air Force? The trouble with this scenario is that is was tried before and the western schools involved were Boise St, San Diego St, BYU, and Air Force---it didn't work.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:02 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
The trouble with this scenario is that is was tried before and the western schools involved were Boise St, San Diego St, BYU, and Air Force---it didn't work.


Yeah, first the money went away, then the AQ, and then the money went even further south. AQ motivated everyone, well, except BYU. I don't know if BYU was insulted they weren't getting the full invite or that they felt they would be dumpster diving for anything less than the PAC or Big XII.

Honestly, the AAC could just get BYU and not need the rest of the MWC "core" to make it the indisputable top G5 conference. The AAC would probably expand (and has the door still open) for them, Army, and AFA anytime they wanted to join. I think the "dream core" of schools are BYU and the three SA's. Get all four of those in the same place, and the money will start moving.

As for Boise and their place in this...I think the way they handled their business with the Big East/AAC burned some bridges. I don't know if the entire Mountain West was happy with the way they handled their business, either. But, because Boise football was popular (don't know how long that holds out), the MWC welcomed them back. And I'm not sure BYU was ever really in love with them, either, the spuds or a lot of those other "left behind" WAC schools. I think any influential parts of the AAC who move to put another conference together cut Boise off.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:59 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
The trouble with this scenario is that is was tried before and the western schools involved were Boise St, San Diego St, BYU, and Air Force---it didn't work.


Yeah, first the money went away, then the AQ, and then the money went even further south. AQ motivated everyone, well, except BYU. I don't know if BYU was insulted they weren't getting the full invite or that they felt they would be dumpster diving for anything less than the PAC or Big XII.

Honestly, the AAC could just get BYU and not need the rest of the MWC "core" to make it the indisputable top G5 conference. The AAC would probably expand (and has the door still open) for them, Army, and AFA anytime they wanted to join. I think the "dream core" of schools are BYU and the three SA's. Get all four of those in the same place, and the money will start moving.

As for Boise and their place in this...I think the way they handled their business with the Big East/AAC burned some bridges. I don't know if the entire Mountain West was happy with the way they handled their business, either. But, because Boise football was popular (don't know how long that holds out), the MWC welcomed them back. And I'm not sure BYU was ever really in love with them, either, the spuds or a lot of those other "left behind" WAC schools. I think any influential parts of the AAC who move to put another conference together cut Boise off.


I agree on all counts.

BYU's gentle ego has to be taken into consideration. They feel they should be in the P5 (and they probably should be) and they would rather play P5 schools. They also want control of their money. Any conference trying to lure BYU can't come across as desperate and BYU has to be convinced they are getting the better end of the deal.

I also concur about the AAC just needing BYU and not all the MWC schools. If the American could add BYU and Air Force I think they would be set in terms of national exposure.

As for Boise, I think their stock is falling. They lost their coach. They are no longer the flavor of the week. BYU never really considered them a true rival--just a nearby rising power who conveniently met their scheduling needs. I really see the Boise St program taking a big step back. I think the new MWC has a lot of parity. Even newcomer Utah St has shown they can make a statement agaist programs that once kept them at an arm's length.

I think BYU is going to see that they need to be in a conference in order to get bowl access. The AAC can give them that. I'd like to see it happen.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:25 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I think BYU is going to see that they need to be in a conference in order to get bowl access. The AAC can give them that. I'd like to see it happen.


I think the AAC will give them that if the Cougs ever call them back. But, they'll ask for the kind of deal Navy has with their "exclusive" bowl game. BYU will be like "hands off the Poinsettia Bowl." The AAC will probably easily oblige, as well as not asking for a cut of the network money and getting a favorable share as a football-only member (I don't think they go all-in). I suspect they'd want more than what Navy gets...I wonder if that was ever an issue?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:55 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
I think BYU is going to see that they need to be in a conference in order to get bowl access. The AAC can give them that. I'd like to see it happen.


I think the AAC will give them that if the Cougs ever call them back. But, they'll ask for the kind of deal Navy has with their "exclusive" bowl game. BYU will be like "hands off the Poinsettia Bowl." The AAC will probably easily oblige, as well as not asking for a cut of the network money and getting a favorable share as a football-only member (I don't think they go all-in). I suspect they'd want more than what Navy gets...I wonder if that was ever an issue?


What I was really getting at was the chance to play in the Fiesta, Cotton, and Peach Bowls as the highest ranked winner of a Go5 conference but yes, BYU could very well request access to certain bowls and I think the Poinsettia would be a good one for them. The cougars have a historic tie to the game and they usually show up well to it.


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