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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:22 pm 
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Mozilla-I disagree. Whoever they let in would not be an affiliate but a full member and have all the rights and privileges that the others have--they just wouldn't get a share of football revenue. I don't think they can add a school and give them the caveat that if Navy walks we are kicking you out or forcing you to start FBS football. They would be permanently part of the conference.

With that said, there are certainly some basketball schools in the footprint or near it that would add some value. UMass, Dayton, VCU, St Louis, and Wichita St all bring big markets, sustained success or both. I just don't think hybridization is the solution for this league. The American is already struggling to have an identity. The league has a reputation as a group of ACC and Big 12 rejects and schools happy to get out of a depleted C-USA. Letting in non-football schools makes them look even weaker.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:47 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Mozilla-I disagree. Whoever they let in would not be an affiliate but a full member and have all the rights and privileges that the others have--they just wouldn't get a share of football revenue. I don't think they can add a school and give them the caveat that if Navy walks we are kicking you out or forcing you to start FBS football. They would be permanently part of the conference.

With that said, there are certainly some basketball schools in the footprint or near it that would add some value. UMass, Dayton, VCU, St Louis, and Wichita St all bring big markets, sustained success or both. I just don't think hybridization is the solution for this league. The American is already struggling to have an identity. The league has a reputation as a group of ACC and Big 12 rejects and schools happy to get out of a depleted C-USA. Letting in non-football schools makes them look even weaker.


You make some good points.

What I don't understand is....
If the AAC already is struggling to have an identity....how will pulling in a Top 25 'all sports' member...make them look worse?
They have already let in one affiliate...how does a second one make so much difference? Especially, if this new member is a really good school...in a really good market....that makes the 'big dance' almost every year.

Last question:
Do affiliate members vote....in regards to sports they don't play? Or, does each conference set its own standard on the subject? ie: does UTA and UALR vote in SBC fb issues? or, will Navy vote in AAC bb issues?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Marinatto invited Navy (and couldn't get Army or Air Force to pair up with them).
Marinatto then briefly had Boise State and San Diego State signed up to join the conference.

This MESS led to Marinatto being fired and Aresco taking his job.

Aresco set about to build an all-sports conference (and un-do the ugly hybrid).
The "Big East 7 Catholic BB schools left and paid for the Big East name.
Boise Sate and SDSU left and rejoined the MWC.
Unfortunately, Aresco could not "un-invite" Navy.

Navy does have a big following, and is one of the more attractive AAC schools in terms of filling up a bowl game.
However, it would be better to have 2 or none FB affiliates. Navy / Army should have been a package deal.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:49 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
Mozilla-I disagree. Whoever they let in would not be an affiliate but a full member and have all the rights and privileges that the others have--they just wouldn't get a share of football revenue. I don't think they can add a school and give them the caveat that if Navy walks we are kicking you out or forcing you to start FBS football. They would be permanently part of the conference.

With that said, there are certainly some basketball schools in the footprint or near it that would add some value. UMass, Dayton, VCU, St Louis, and Wichita St all bring big markets, sustained success or both. I just don't think hybridization is the solution for this league. The American is already struggling to have an identity. The league has a reputation as a group of ACC and Big 12 rejects and schools happy to get out of a depleted C-USA. Letting in non-football schools makes them look even weaker.


You make some good points.

What I don't understand is....
If the AAC already is struggling to have an identity....how will pulling in a Top 25 'all sports' member...make them look worse?
They have already let in one affiliate...how does a second one make so much difference? Especially, if this new member is a really good school...in a really good market....that makes the 'big dance' almost every year.

Last question:
Do affiliate members vote....in regards to sports they don't play? Or, does each conference set its own standard on the subject? ie: does UTA and UALR vote in SBC fb issues? or, will Navy vote in AAC bb issues?



If a school plays every sport but football they aren't an affiliate--they are a full member. While they may not get to vote on issues directly related to football they do get to vote on membership changes and there very presence in the conference (see UT-A and UALR) means that the other members have to factor in their presence when deciding on how to build the league. The Sunbelt has the problem of both their non-fb schools being on the same side of the conference which leads to an overall unbalance.

Adding a basketball school like VCU, Dayton, St Louis, or Wichita St would give that school a permanent voice in conference decisions and you would expect that if the American had very many non-football schools they would run into the same problem as the old Big East--the non-fb contingent has to give its approval on all membership decisions and for every new football school admitted they'll want a basketball member too.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:38 am 
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tute79 wrote:
Marinatto invited Navy (and couldn't get Army or Air Force to pair up with them).
Marinatto then briefly had Boise State and San Diego State signed up to join the conference.

This MESS led to Marinatto being fired and Aresco taking his job.

Aresco set about to build an all-sports conference (and un-do the ugly hybrid).
The "Big East 7 Catholic BB schools left and paid for the Big East name.
Boise Sate and SDSU left and rejoined the MWC.
Unfortunately, Aresco could not "un-invite" Navy.

Navy does have a big following, and is one of the more attractive AAC schools in terms of filling up a bowl game.
However, it would be better to have 2 or none FB affiliates. Navy / Army should have been a package deal.


The Catholic schools cut a TV deal behind his back and left the OBE hanging. Aresco would have loved keeping the old BE together with a 12 team FB conference and the remaining C7 Catholic schools. Keeping schools like Villanova, Georgetown, and Marquette in the fold would have kept the BE at the top of the TV market as one of the top BB conferences in the country. Had Villanova moved up to FBS FB the OBE hybrid would still be together today probably without Tulsa in the league.

BE FB East - UConn, Temple, Villanova, ECU, UCF, USF.
BE FB West - Navy, Cinn, Houston, Memphis, Tulane, SMU.

The conference could move on with decent FB and a Championship Game for FB, yet still standout above the other G4 schools as a national BB power heavily concentrated in the Northeast supported by great BB institutions in the Southwest and Midwest too. The combination of UConn, Temple, Marquette, Georgetown, Memphis, Villanova, Cinn and up and coming SMU under Larry Brown would have drawn as many NCAA bids as the OBE before WV, Pitt, Syracuse, ND, and L'Ville left. A decent TV contract could have been hammered out with ESPN too.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:07 am 
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That's not an entirely honest representation of the situation. There were four factions comprising the Big East when it restructured its contracts in the 90's after absorbing the football members' full athletic departments: non-football members, football-full members, Notre Dame, and "the rest" (like Temple, basically having no rights). Yeah, the C7 and ND peeled off, but they could contractually do so, though it obviously wasn't something they could do for free.

I think the reality facing the Big East was the footballers' demands over shares and "bloat" (needing enough teams for CCG), and giving schools who were kept out for years more money than non-football original members. That was bound to cause some wagon-circling.

I don't know what could have saved it...literally no expansion? The "usual suspects" who always turned them down, like the SA's, PSU, and BC? Villanova? You still have the Big XII refilling its shelves and the Big Ten expanding, with the ACC restocking as a result to consider. This thing was always doomed to die, depending on how one looked at it...I don't know how one could have saved it, if it meant keeping everyone happy.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:08 pm 
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The Big East football league was probably doomed from the start. They needed Penn St to stabalize and anchor the league and having Florida St would have also helped greatly. Having an eastern football league under the Big East banner was also problematic because the league simply had too many basketball schools they had to please and accommodate. Perhaps a hybrid league would have worked if they would have only had Villanova, Georgetown, and St Johns as non-football schools (UConn would be included too but as we know, they upgraded from FCS). Without Seton Hall and Providence filling up valuable slots Temple, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia Tech could have been enfranchised with full membership.

BC
UConn
Syracuse
St Johns*
Rutgers
Villanova*
Temple
Penn St
Pitt
West Virginia
Virginia Tech
Georgetown*
Miami


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