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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:50 pm 
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Kevin White ND will play at least 3 BE games per year in football.He calls this an agreement.Add Army and Navy thats at least 5 games per year.
Yes, 3 + 2 = 5, but 5 what? How in the H@!! does ND vs. Army enhance the BE? (Answer: It doesn't) I'll tell you what it does mean: It means ND is playing Army or Navy instead of playing a BE school.

You don't like it when we discuss our fantasies of UMass and others playing in the BE? Then stop confusing ND's interest in the Big East conference with their interest in the northeast region. Huge difference.

Just ask Temple.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:08 pm 
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Dogs your examples are not comparable.First of all ND is a member of the BE for all sports.Secondly ND is part of a bowl package with the BE.Other ties include supporting the BE with the BCS.Those games you carelessly misclassified as OOC games are part of an arrangement of a least three games of year between the BE and ND.Then of course there are the ND games with Army and Navyand also there games with BE members.Also not many schools play 3 OOCin the same conference.Things are changing with ND.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:13 pm 
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UMASS a 1AA school that cannot even give pay increases to keep its faculty.Temple a school who had 5000 or less fans at its games.These are certainly BAD members for the BE.Army and Navy likely will enjoy games with the BE.Will the Army and Navy game some how be part of Meadowlands /BE tv package.Will the B10 have 1/2 games?Could happen.Will the ND have games with the MAC ?Quite possibly,the B10 does.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:22 pm 
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TS2, we all still want to know how this helps the Big East. Notre Dame has played three Big East opponents in a season several times since joining the Conference in 1994. I believe something like 8 or 9 times. The remaining years they played 1 or 2 games against Big East opponents.

I am not challenging the fact that Notre Dame has and probably will play at least 3 Big East opponents per year.

In years past, the additional games did not increase the overall Big East Football television contract. Even with the projected games in the future, the Conference’s television contract was severely cut with the departures of Virginia Tech, Miami, and Boston College.

The $1 million games that you cite are no different than years past. Notre Dame is going to play to a packed house on the road, yielding a great payday for the host school. How is this a NEW windfall for the Big East?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:59 am 
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An alliance of at least 3 gameswith ND is more important than in the past.There is no more Miami or votech to help with strength of schedule or tv in the new BE.Also the alliance with Army and Navy both with ND and the BE is being strengthened.(now Army is an independent rather a member of CUSA.The marketing of the Army and Navy as part of an alliance with the BE for tv is also a possibility.ND games bring in much needed funds to BE football (do not forget the dispute the BE and ESPN over the new price being paid for tv after Miami and votech left)Games away from ND every will help the BE tv package.Also the co-marketing of Army and Navy games away from ND could result in a better BE tv package.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:13 am 
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See also my post on "TS2 was right!"

Here's how "special" this arrangement is, IMO: It's not.

- ND would play BE teams anyway. Maybe not 3 per season but this arrangement is proof positive that ND understands it's need to play, be seen and recruit in the northeast. They'd schedule BE teams even without this arrangement. This deal simply guarantees a minimum # of those games and that one of them will usually be a "neutral" site game at the Meadowlands. Sounds more like they're wanting out of a real road game.

- No net increase to BE revenue. Sure, the schools that play ND will see a little extra for that season, but again the net difference compared to not having this agreement will be marginal at best. And that revenue may not be shared equally because I'll be surprised if ND is playing SoFla and Louisville as often as it plays Rutgers and Pitt.

- Yippee! Now the BE has the opportunity to tie Navy and Army to their bowl and TV packages as well!!

- - - - - - - -

Let's forget all this for a moment. Most everyone has agreed that while the 8 members of the BE football conference aren't the SEC, they are at least a decent league that remains above the non-BCS crowd. The questioning then begins with what do they need to do to get better or at least maintain their status? Does this arrangement help them in that effort?

I'll agree that it helps: The BE is gaining some semblence of regionality while appeasing ND's interest in remaining independent. Having a confirmed # of games is preferable to not having any games with them. It will ease their scheduling concerns and strength of schedule woes.

Where I differ, and apparently I'm not alone, is that other options would go farther in securing the overall, long term health of the league.

1) I'm not convinced the 16 headed animal that will be the BE basketball conference is capable of surviving. It will be fun and feature great ball, but is it in the best interest of all parties? I suspect several powers will regret the smaller number of national TV appearances as there are only so many BE games to go around.

2) For all the appearance of compromise on the part of ND the BE will always appear inferior in some way, shape or form if they are reliant on this program for market appeal and SOS. The BE standings will still show just 8 teams and I'm concerned that this arrangement will serve to perpetuate the difference in $ and support allocated to each member. Perhaps we'll hear that ND will play each BE member the same number of times, home, away and at neutral sites. Until then I fear favoritism will rule the day. Thus the BE still needs an 8th conference game to balance schedules, meaning a 9th member, meaning additional compromises, conditions or a split.

3) ND's interests aren't exactly consistent with those of the BE. The stronger the BE is as a football conference, the less dependent it is on ND, the more northeastern $ and people will flow to the BE at the expense of ND. It may never be in terms of volumes, but then again it just might. What if the BE was solid enough that for a couple years they didn't need to play ND? What if the Irish never play at ND, or started losing more often than winning?


I do not begrudge the Irish or the BE for trying to make things work or taking what they can get. I simply disagree with the assessments and the proposed solutions.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:06 pm 
Gunner, BCHokie, Westwolf, good points.
TS2, I give you credit in terms of early-on conveying certain specifcs such as the Meadowlands desire, renewal of the Navy series, and the 12th game giving ND a third BE opponent. They are appropriate points to note, and have generated extensive commentaries. Where I differ, is in the interpretation of what this means for the long term in the BE. I see nothing to suggest that Notre Dame is going to join BE football as a peer participant. The Army-Navy injection is simply that both are northeast service academics and are both now independent, and Notre Dame will continue to play Navy.
What the USA article offered up in terms of Kevin White's comments, is that Notre Dame is RE-ASSERTING its independence. The focus was scheduling.
Therein, there is a scheduling scheme to maximize (or 7) home games, and to play others at big city sites around the country. This may create some risen eyebrows among BCS conferences and other high power schools in terms of whether Notre Dame will be securing certain advantages. There is the talk about schools having a minimum number of "away" games versus the discussion about those schools that must have a designated number of home games against 1-A opponents to remain classified as 1-A. Notre Dame certainly is not the only big timer looking to have or maintain a minimum of seven home games each year. In Notre Dame's case, they are retaining certain opponents that would insist on home to home, i. e. Southern Cal, Purdue, and Mich. State. Notre Dame's "Big City" tour or scheduling, certainly appears to have designs that reach beyond the northeast. Again, the word "national" comes to the forefront.
The title implies that Notre Dame will be reaching "into the past". This is precisely the foundation of some of the recent criticism of Notre Dame---the depedency on prior accomplishments and dismissing the realities of today.
With the 12th game, other Big Timers, who are conference members can project nationally too--an Ohio State-Alabama game; an Oklahoma-Florida game; a UCLA-Georgia game are hypothetical possibilities. Also, with national television for much of college football, playing at certain designated sites can get overstated---one can play before 80,000 fans in Clemson, South Carolina and such does not have to be in Chicago, New Orleans, Jacksonville, or Orlando for that to happen. While some recruiting impact is acknowledged, more than one school can schedule a non-conference game in Florida, for example.
While Notre Dame may be talking about 2009 or 2011 to get their preferred schedule in order; agree Westwolf, that does not dismiss the possibility for events to shake things out, and Notre Dame could be talking again with the B10 before the next decade commences. A few more consecutive sub-par seasons by Notre Dame and they will look at conference play with more ponder.
The BE has not gotten themselves a new fb member. The BE has just reinforced their role as enablers and wishful thinkers. The BE hopes that Big 10 option does not remain for Notre Dame; but they also know that if the Big 10 deletes that option by taking on another for #12, that new addition could come from an existing BE member.
The ACC took Miami, VPI, and BC. Syracuse was willing in the intial phase to go to the ACC. It is incorrect to say that those who were unhappy with the BE set-up with Notre Dame have ALL left. Had Pittsburgh, West Virginia, and Rutgers had the offers to leave for the ACC or the Big 10 too, any of them would have been gone by now.


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