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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:32 pm 
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I read all the posts on this thread from the beginning of page one. Also read the others on the BE.
It is misinformation to say Notre Dame has entered into a football agreement with the Big East. Notre Dame plays Big East basketball and contracted bowl agreements which make them an option in case a Big East team is not chosen.
So Notre Dame may change their opponents on their schedule. That does not mean they will play Big East football. If they play Army in the Meadowlands; that is not Big East football. If Notre Dame continues to play Navy, as they have scheduled, that is not Big East football. If Notre Dame continues to play the University of Pittsburgh as they usually do, that is not a Big East game for Pittsburgh. If there is a 12th game offered and Notre Dame picks a BE team to play, that is still an out-of-conference game for the Big East team.
Notre Dame is a partial Big East member. That means they play BE basketball and some other minor sports, but are not a football member. And Army and Navy are scheduling Big East teams as conference members? They obviously will play a few because of where they are located and some tradition of playing some of those nearby. As independents, of which these are two of maybe four total, most of their opponents will be members of some conference, including the Big East.
Any accepted invitation for Notre Dame, or Army, or Navy to join the Big East as members, or any structured partnership, would be announced by the conference office and recieve widespread publicity. BlackGold or Cybercat, where are the news articles on this? You missed them?
Is there a grand design for Notre Dame, Army, and Navy, to gradually join the Big East gradually and methodically and under the radar? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. But why would it need to be? To get the independent desiring Notre Dame fans to buy into the conference idea of BE football? Hardly!


Last edited by lionsndogs on Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:37 pm 
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TigerShark2, IF the football playing members of the Big East do break away from the non-football playing schools, why would the new conference not expand to 9 or 12?

Are you saying that an eight team all-sports conference would not expand because Notre Dame might play 3-4 games with those members?

Are you saying that there will be expansion, but the new members will be Army and Navy and Notre Dame will play those two every year bringing the total to 5-6 games per year? If this is the case, are you implying that Notre Dame has or will impose their agenda on the other eight member schools to bring in Army and Navy?

That seems pretty far fetched to me.


Last edited by bchokie on Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:29 pm 
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<<There is no guarantee for success at Florida State after Bobby Bowden leaves. There is no great tradition there. They didn't make him; he made them. Although they have state-wide appeal, FSU's location off in the Flaorida Panhandle makes accessibility difficult for large portions of the state 500 miles & 8 hours from the large population centers of southern Florida. They will always play second fiddle to the Gators, Miami owns souther Florida, & the move up in class by USF only increase competition. Syracuse, on the other hand, is in a unique position for a private - centrally located in upstate new York with no competition in a state of 19 million. It has the tradition of a national championship & All-Americans from Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Floyd Little, & Larry Csonka through Donovan McNabb & Marvin Harrison. With of programs of comparable caliber, SU has at least as much potential as FSU to attract fans & recruits.

Pitt & Miami are comparable types of schools in large pro cities. Back in the '70s when Pitt was winning a national championship, nobody thought that U of Miami was anything special in football. Howard Snellenberger built the program there & it has been sustained by others since, but if someone does the same at Pitt, it is positioned to be just as successful.>>


Interesting when you put it that way. Probably the way for the BE would be to catch up would be for Miami and FSU to go down to a more normal level. As for Pitt and SU catching up, what Miami and FSU have done is extraordinary. Probably noone with the possible exception of Nebraska has done what they have done over an extended time period.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:43 pm 
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The new BE has not even started and many here are predicting it will breakup before it starts.This is certainly a possibility,but so is being hit by lightning.The BE had 14 members in bb and it won 3 national championships.The breakup could have happened but ND seemed to prefered the option of adding DePaul and Marquette.ND will proclaim it is independent,but will continue to like the freedom the BE allows.Now what does ND do for the BE it provides support for BE in the BCS.Besides all the erroneous statements has agreement with BE with its bowls.If the BE did not want ND in the bowls it could always stop signing agreements which include ND.The Meadowlands provide ND with a socalled neutral site to play Army/BE teams.These games will involve the Meadowlands in a tv package to sell.Thus in a 12 game season ND will have 7 home games 4 away games and a game at a socalled neutral site(where 30k ND fans will be attendance.ND wants to make more money from its football program and the BE is helping them.Pittsburgh and Syracuse seem to already be on the schedule already 1-2 (from UConn,Rutgers or WVU will come)Army and Navy regularly play UCONN and Rutgers as well ND.Call what you want a partial membership or scheduling alliance it is all about money,winning and tv.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:28 am 
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Going to 16 really limited the BE possibilities. The move to 16 was either to plan for a future split or for balance of power. The U.S. had experience with balance of power, adding one slave state for every free state. That didn't work too well. Its not a stable situation.

Going beyond 16 is not likely. I only know of 2 conferences > 16 members and both are Division II. One, stretching from Alaska to Hawaii to New Mexico quickly split. THe other, the Lone Star Coference, is relatively compact geographically (if any conference included all of Texas is compact) with all the teams in TX, OK or eastern NM.

Maybe the BE should put the question to ND. Let them keep the bowl alignment but tell them they must join the BE fb conference if they have a I-A team. That would free a spot for another team. Notre Dame would, IMO order of probability; join the B10 freeing a space; join the A10 freeing a space; or join the BE. 8 is hard to justify when the other 5 BCS conferences have 10-12.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:58 am 
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Even with 16 teams, TV is only going to show so many games from one conference. Going beyond 16 really hurts the lower half of the conference as they don't get exposure. I think a split would be beneficial to both halfs.

The bb schools have plenty of potential good additions. The fb schools have plenty of medicore additions. That's why a UMass looks good, given the right circumstances.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:06 am 
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Does this mean Marshall will now be more acceptable to WVU in the BE?

Seeking to build a rivalry / Governor wants West Virginia , Marshall to start football series

Houston Chronicle News Services
It was only a passing reference, but the ovation that interrupted West Virginia Gov. Joe Manchin's State of the State address was proof that some of the first-term governor's agenda had already hit home.
Increasing state revenues? Better health care? No.
Manchin wants Marshall and West Virginia to resume their in-state football rivalry.
The way they reacted, so do a lot of lawmakers.
College football is embedded in the culture of a state with no professional sports. But state supremacy on the football field has been relegated to verbal volleys for years.
There are no bragging rights - the state's two major universities 210 miles apart have played just once since 1923.
Manchin, who once earned a football scholarship to WVU and is friends with Marshall coach Bob Pruett and West Virginia 's Rich Rodriguez, made his intentions to get the schools back together known along the campaign trail.
And during his address Wednesday night, he called on the schools to work together on research and projects that seek to create jobs and spur the economy.
Manchin prefaced his comment by saying, "We want WVU and Marshall to be rivals on the basketball court, and, yes, on the football field ... "
Lawmakers roared their approval. Watching from the House chamber was WVU president David Hardesty.
"We will be trying to arrange a series," Hardesty told the Associated Press. "The governor has encouraged us to play, and we are both trying to do just that. The reality of MU's entrance into Conference USA and our new Big East will influence our discussions."
Marshall and WVU, which play every year in basketball, last met on the football field in 1997.
"What builds fans for the future are rivalries," Marshall athletic director Bob Marcum said. "The fans of the future are in those student bodies."


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:02 am 
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It quite possible that Marshal will play WVU.However,the prospect of a third rate private school which operates a JC for its athletes being brought into the BE is highly unlikely.The tv market for Marshal is also is a minimal one.Also the great new bb league is not likely to oust a member to take in UMASS.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:59 pm 
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Quote:
I read all the posts on this thread from the beginning of page one. Also read the others on the BE.
It is misinformation to say Notre Dame has entered into a football agreement with the Big East. Notre Dame plays Big East basketball and contracted bowl agreements which make them an option in case a Big East team is not chosen.
So Notre Dame may change their opponents on their schedule. That does not mean they will play Big East football. If they play Army in the Meadowlands; that is not Big East football. If Notre Dame continues to play Navy, as they have scheduled, that is not Big East football. If Notre Dame continues to play the University of Pittsburgh as they usually do, that is not a Big East game for Pittsburgh. If there is a 12th game offered and Notre Dame picks a BE team to play, that is still an out-of-conference game for the Big East team.
Notre Dame is a partial Big East member. That means they play BE basketball and some other minor sports, but are not a football member. And Army and Navy are scheduling Big East teams as conference members? They obviously will play a few because of where they are located and some tradition of playing some of those nearby. As independents, of which these are two of maybe four total, most of their opponents will be members of some conference, including the Big East.
Any accepted invitation for Notre Dame, or Army, or Navy to join the Big East as members, or any structured partnership, would be announced by the conference office and recieve widespread publicity. BlackGold or Cybercat, where are the news articles on this? You missed them?
Is there a grand design for Notre Dame, Army, and Navy, to gradually join the Big East gradually and methodically and under the radar? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. But why would it need to be? To get the independent desiring Notre Dame fans to buy into the conference idea of BE football? Hardly!


Finally, someone who sees the situation for what it is. ND may add a few BE games, but the only conference they're headed for (in all sports) is he BigTenEleven.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:33 pm 

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It quite possible that Marshal will play WVU.However,the prospect of a third rate private school which operates a JC for its athletes being brought into the BE is highly unlikely.The tv market for Marshal is also is a minimal one.Also the great new bb league is not likely to oust a member to take in UMASS.


Marshall, founded in 1837, is public and part of the University of West Virginia System. Academically, it is less competitive.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:12 am 
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Quote:


Finally, someone who sees the situation for what it is. ND may add a few BE games, but the only conference they're headed for (in all sports) is he BigTenEleven.


You are being nice, Westwolf. Agree, if ND ever decides to play conference fb as part of all-sports, and the B10 concurs, it will be the B10.


Last edited by lionsndogs on Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:28 am 
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ND turned the B10 in 1999.They make more money than the vast majority of schools in the B10.They are weakening their schedule by 2009.Those who think that Kevin White is making false in USA Today are completely FULL OF IT.YES IT IS A PARTIAL MEMBERSHIP FOR ND.THIS IS NOT A CONSPIRACY,it is adeal with ND and the BE.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:32 am 
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Kevin White ND will play at least 3 BE games per year in football.He calls this an agreement.Add Army and Navy thats at least 5 games per year.THIS IS NO CONSPIRACY,THIS IS REAL.No more Marshal's,Temple,ECU,Memphis etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:20 am 
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Kevin White ND will play at least 3 BE games per year in football.He calls this an agreement.Add Army and Navy thats at least 5 games per year.THIS IS NO CONSPIRACY,THIS IS REAL.No more Marshal's,Temple,ECU,Memphis etc.
TS2, I didn't read this to be a done deal with the Big East Teams and saw no mention of Army in the article. The article is located at http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/independent1a/2005-02-14-notre-dame-schedule_x.htm .


Quote:
White said an agreement to play at least three Big East teams a season would let the Irish play annually at Giants Stadium in East Rutherford, N.J. They have played there 11 times, including a 27-9 win against Navy in 2004.


I agree that it would be desireable for ND to play in the Meadowlands. There is another statement in that article that leads me to believe nothing is final and they are fishing for the best offer.


Quote:
For a 12th game each year, athletics director Kevin White said, the school is considering cities such as Chicago, Orlando, Jacksonville, New Orleans and Dallas. The Irish would negotiate terms that would include games, perhaps in prime time, in its agreement with NBC.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:18 pm 
From reading the article, and it is just one interpretation, Notre Dame assumes by 2009 that they can secure 7 home games. There is no indication which, if any will be permanent opponents, year to year, in South Bend. It is possible to assume, by ND fishing for round the country city sites, they would also be seeking agreeing opponents for these sites. Depending on how many there are, it appears Notre Dame seeks to minimize visits to the home campuses of certain opponents. Maybe they don't want to go into places such as Tuscaloosa, Athens, Baton Rouge, Lincoln, or Norman. Of course they won at Knoxville last year, but big city stuff may be to enhance so-called neutral sites for their away games.
Kevin White is asserting Notre Dame's independence in football. If they play 3 BE fb teams per year, that does not exceed the typical number of their B10 opponents, and is equivalent to the number of PAC10 opponents certain years. Also, if Notre Dame is softening their schedule, yet play BCS type oppoents, it stands to reason a likely "given" BE opponent could be named. The new "intent" certainly would not have been made with the departed Miami or VPI. Rutgers may just pop up on Notre Dame's schedule.
Throwing a dry bone to the BE with a pledge for three games by 2009 is no more for the BE than Alabama, Penn State, and Nebraska agreeing to play three BE teams OOC.
Notre Dame is reinforcing its bb leverage in the BE, and securing its stake in BE fb decision-making because it will ultimately affect any kind of potential BE split. Notre Dame has an interest in maintaining the status quo.
Bottom line, Notre Dame, not now and probably not ever, will schedule eight BE opponents in fb and compete for the BE championship in fb.
No mention of Army, and certainly nothing to verify how Notre Dame renewing their long series with Navy will contribute to BE fb conference play. Notre Dame has an interest too, in not being the lone independent. Navy provides them company in this regard. And yeah, the BE fb coffers will be overflowing (?) with Notre Dame playing Navy in Dublin!


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