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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:11 am 
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See Hartford Courant Sports: Irish Schedule . . . Big East

I'm eating crow for breakfast this morning. :-[ :D

www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-colfoot0215.artfeb15,0,970617.story?coll=hc-headlines-sports

Big East Prominent in New Irish Schedule Plans

Beginning in 2011, Notre Dame plans on playing at least three Big East teams in football each season - with one of the games at the Meadowlands in New Jersey - as part of a long-range plan to restructure the Irish's schedule.

John Heisler, Notre Dame's senior associate athletic director, said having Big East teams on the schedule is part of being a good partner, since the Irish are in the conference for most other sports.

"The Big East has been interested in having us make more of a concrete consistent commitment," Heisler told the Chicago Tribune. But because of schedules in place, "we can't get to that until 2011."

The plan, which includes playing seven home games a season, is contingent upon the NCAA permanently adding a 12th game. If the NCAA votes this spring to allow it, the Irish would add a seventh home game in 2006 abd 2007. Notre Dame has 12 games scheduled for 2006, a year the NCAA already permits it because an extra Saturday falls between Labor Day and Thanksgiving weekend.

The Irish, who intend to remain an independent in football, play Pittsburgh and Syracuse next season and in 2008 but do not have a Big East team scheduled in the intervening years.

Notre Dame played Big East teams Rutgers and West Virginia three times each between 1996 and 2002.

Of the four teams other that will be in the Big East next season, the Irish have never played Louisville or Division I-A newcomers UConn and South Florida, and played Cincinnati once in 1900.

Heisler said the school will continue its long rivalries with Southern Cal, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, and Navy.


Last edited by friarfan on Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:37 am 
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It says something that this warranted it's own thread, but no one disputed the idea that this arrangement could come to pass. I'm simply among those that fail to see such grand value in the deal.

Here's USA Today's article:

Quote:
Irish look ahead by looking into past
By Malcolm Moran, USA TODAY
SOUTH BEND, Ind. - Notre Dame officials are planning to reinforce a long-term commitment to the school's independent football status with a dramatic strategic link to the Rockne era.
Anticipating an NCAA decision in April that would make a 12th regular-season game permanent, Notre Dame intends to schedule a game each season in different parts of the country at sites the Irish hope will be anything but neutral.

The plan, the result of a two-year study, is expected to take effect in 2009. The Fighting Irish will increase the number of games at Notre Dame Stadium from the current six to seven, and four games will take place on the road.

For a 12th game each year, athletics director Kevin White said, the school is considering cities such as Chicago, Orlando, Jacksonville, New Orleans and Dallas. The Irish would negotiate terms that would include games, perhaps in prime time, in its agreement with NBC.

"It will be like a mini bowl game," White told USA TODAY. "We're going to take our football program around the country in ways that we haven't done."

The idea has roots in the 1920s, when coach Knute Rockne took his team, known as the Ramblers, from coast to coast.

John Heisler, a senior associate athletics director whose responsibilities include scheduling, said the school has not contacted potential opponents or representatives of sites. White said the initiative has been viewed favorably within the school administration because of its boost to recruiting and the way it could provide alumni and fans greater access to tickets.

White said an agreement to play at least three Big East teams a season would let the Irish play annually at Giants Stadium in East Rutherford, N.J. They have played there 11 times, including a 27-9 win against Navy in 2004.

A 10-year extension of an agreement with fellow independent Navy, an annual Irish opponent since 1927, will include a game in Dublin, Ireland, where the programs met in 1996.

After considering a football involvement with several conferences the last six years, White said Notre Dame would celebrate its football independence rather than feeling resigned to it.

"If you think of yourself as an independent and you allow yourself to become regionalized," White said, "that doesn't make sense. We need to be a little entrepreneurial."


Again, ND vs Navy will not be a BE game so that doesn't truly help the conference. ND playing BE opponents in "neutral" stadiums is only a marginal benefit, if that. Nice payout but arguably the game conditions will favor ND. Tough to sell that to recruits.

ND is reaffirming their interest in the northeast in a manner that allows them to circumvent the need to offer home and home arrangments. It's ingenious for them, really, as they might play have as few as 3 true road games within a 12 game season. But this doesn't add to the BE coffers while at the same time precludes the BE schools from seeking other options.

Hats off to ND. No other conference would've given them this deal.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:40 am 
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This is far down the line and will be scrapped when ND joins the Big 10.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:41 pm 
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This may be far down the line, but Notre Dame is already bookes 6 years out. Contracts are signed now for 2011 and beyond.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:06 pm 
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Quote:
It says something that this warranted it's own thread, but no one disputed the idea that this arrangement could come to pass. I'm simply among those that fail to see such grand value in the deal.

Again, ND vs Navy will not be a BE game so that doesn't truly help the conference. ND playing BE opponents in "neutral" stadiums is only a marginal benefit, if that. Nice payout but arguably the game conditions will favor ND. Tough to sell that to recruits.

ND is reaffirming their interest in the northeast in a manner that allows them to circumvent the need to offer home and home arrangments. It's ingenious for them, really, as they might play have as few as 3 true road games within a 12 game season. But this doesn't add to the BE coffers while at the same time precludes the BE schools from seeking other options.

Hats off to ND. No other conference would've given them this deal.


Gunner, I felt that this warranted its own thread because it is specifically about Notre Dame & while there has been a lot of discussion about Notre Dame on the other thread, it is supposed to be about ranking BE expansion candidates. I won't take issue with whether or not this is good for the Big East. And you're right, no other conference would have given ND its current arrangement, although ND certainly has been scheduling multiple teams from other conferences, i.e. Big Ten & Pac Ten.

Let me just say that there is something good about this for the Big East. ND is committing to play BE on a neutral site right in the heart of BE country. This is not a true road game for ND, but it's not a home game either. It also gives BE a guaranteed sell-out, featuring one of their teams in the media capital of the country. That has to be good for BE. It's also good for college football in the Northeast in general. To bring in a high profile game that will bring out fans & capture people's imaginations is a good thing for the region, which hasn't taken to college football in the past 50 years the way other parts of the country have. It will be an annual event that will get tremendous media play in New York.

It's important to note that the Big East is a football conference in its infancy. It doesn't go back a century like the Big Ten. It doesn't even go back half a century like the ACC. The old Southern Conference formed & reformed a few timesin spawning the SEC & later the ACC. The Big 8 formed out of the old Missouri Valley Conference, & now we have the Big XII. The Big east is going through these same kinds of growning pains.

In going through growing pains, BE may have to make some deals that more established conferences can turn up their nose to. Specifically regarding Notre Dame, they have achieved something significant. These negotians have clearly been both complex & complicated. However, while it's been said here that BE should give BE an ultimatum, this shows something short of that, but it shows that BE has been tenacious & persitent. It may only be half a loaf, but it could lead to more down the road.

I thought that there were several significant points made in the article:

The article reports that "Nd is making plans to play AT LEAST 3 BE teams per season." It sounds ND is leaving the door open for more to come.

Heisler said that ND views this arrangement as "part of being a good partner." TS2 has been saying this for some time. He was right; I was wrong. This is significant because ND has never publicly taken this position before. It shows movement & any movement toward BE is good for them.

Heisler says "the Big East has been interested in having us make more of a concrete commitment." See my comments above, but basically this shows that there has been pressure & ND is willing to respond. Something is going on here.

TS2 has been claiming that this arrangement would come about & it turna out that he was right.



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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:30 pm 
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If Notre Dame wants to be a “good partner” why did they not make such a gesture ten years ago?


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:51 pm 
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BCHokie,
There are some schools that ND will have absolutely nothing to do with, and unfortunately, Miami was and still is one of those schools. IMO, that's probably why ND did not make this move much earlier.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:16 pm 

Quote:
This is far down the line and will be scrapped when ND joins the Big 10.


Least we forget, during the previous calendar year, USA Today had an article declaring Notre Dame "exploring" conference affliation with the ACC and the Big10.

Three games with BE fb opponents by 2011? A "good partner"? So the prospective three games with the BE six years down the road will have the adjective "good". I suppose an "outstanding" partner would be four games by 2016, and a "superb" partner will be five games by 2020.

Considering Notre Dame's frequent scheduling of Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State, plus other B10 teams at times, they have been a "good" Big 10 partner a long time.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:24 pm 
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NO ND does not want B-10 membership.They want their own tv contract.They want it their way.The B-10 would not allow ND the flexibilty it has in football with the BE.ND wants the BE to be strong and to remain as a


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:26 pm 
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Quote:
It says something that this warranted it's own thread


Friar, My comment above wasn't about the ND/BE issues but about the theme in the title...

TS2 said:

Quote:
ND does not want B-10 membership.They want their own tv contract. They want it their way. The B-10 would not allow ND the flexibilty it has in football with the BE. ND wants the BE to be strong and to remain as (is)

Apart from ND wanting the BE to be strong, I agree with everything you said here. (In fact I've said it all before myself.) I don't think this is best for the BE, but I definitely agree this is exactly what ND wants.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:23 pm 
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Quote:
.The B-10 would not allow ND the flexibilty it has in football with the BE.


....but ND is not in the fb BE either.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:57 pm 
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ND is a lot closer to being in BE football than they are in moving everyone of their sports to the b-10 and making less money.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:59 pm 
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@UConn
South Florida
Cincinnati
@Louisville
Syracuse
Stanford
@West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Navy
Army
@USC


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:19 am 
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Its better by far for the BE to have ND play at least 3 games per year than none.Future schedules may include 4 games per year plus the integration of Army and Navy into a similar relationship as ND making it 6 games out of 8.


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 Post subject: Tiger Shark 2 Is Right!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:07 am 
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If Notre Dame can work out a deal somehow with the Big 10 so they could be in this division: Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Purdue, and Penn St. Then I think they will be happy. This would be good for the Big 10 as well. Only downside is that Indiana/Purdue wont be in the same division. Probally could work something out with Purdue playing Indiana every year and Notre Dame plays Northwestern. Also if the NCAA goes to the 12 game schedule would be in Notre Dame's favor.

So say this happens, Notre Dame would have a schedule like this:
Michigan
Michigan St
Ohio St
Purdue
Penn St
Northwestern
Big 10 West
Big 10 West
USC
Navy
Out of conference opponent
Out of conference opponent

You can't tell me from a Notre Dame view point this doesnt look good. They would have more big name schools coming to South Bend than they do now. Only downfall is that they would lose their tv contract with NBC.


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