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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:22 pm 
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Now Villanova is going to be part of a BE bowl agreement along with Notre Dame?

Miami of FLA., VPI, and particularly, Boston College were so wise to leave MT and not fawn at the feet of Notre Dame. And then there are posters thinking Penn State would consider the BE? Assure anyone, had Penn State been accepted into BE bb years ago and led them into the formation of BE football, it would be a school that would never have played footsie with Notre Dame in the first place. And, Temple would never have been given the shaft to please Villanova.

Instead of UCONN, WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers spending all that money on frivilous and losing lawsuits against Miami and the ACC and having sour grapes over BC leaving, they needed to have taken Syracuse with them, showed Notre Dame and all the Catholic bb only schools their backsides and formulate an all sports conference with L'ville, Cincy, Temple, and whoever else may fit and agree. If indeed a split is inevitable, and the foundation was set, then the football schools need to make no bones about it and say so. And Notre Dame kept them all together? We all know the Irish are so dedicated to keeping Rutgers fb successful ::).

Instead of blame directed at those schools that left and the opportunistic and aggressive ACC, they needed to have addressed what cause of the departures in the first place: a conferated and fragmented conference structured just the way Notre Dame wants it to be. BE fb was good enough for Miami, but not for ND? Why would Miami or any other successful program want to maintain this stigma indefinitely?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:44 am 
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I'll concede that ND or any other school could be part of a bowl agreement with the BE - haven't they been already for the Gator and the one in Tucson? - but they can't be the conference champions for the BCS without being full time members.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:19 pm 
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Just to clarify something. The affiliations being tossed about for Nova, Army, etc, are not intended to actually influence BE standings, they're merely guarantees to BE football members that a certain number of non-conference games will be filled exclusively by this block of teams, for the purposes of easing their scheduling concerns and ensure a volume of games among northeastern schools. That's all. Sort of like the BE conference telling the member schools "Just go ahead and schedule yourself playing a game on week ___; We'll have an opponent ready and waiting for you."

It's not entirely without merit, given the conference's size and need for quality opponents. I'd still rather the conference not be in such need, however, and hope these contracts don't preclude the BE football schools from taking other actions to better advance their league.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:14 pm 
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Yes the BE is to stay alive and make money.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:25 am 
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Quote:
Assure anyone, had Penn State been accepted into BE bb years ago and led them into the formation of BE football, it would be a school that would never have played footsie with Notre Dame in the first place. And, Temple would never have been given the shaft to please Villanova.

Instead of UCONN, WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers spending all that money on frivilous and losing lawsuits against Miami and the ACC and having sour grapes over BC leaving, they needed to have taken Syracuse with them, showed Notre Dame and all the Catholic bb only schools their backsides and formulate an all sports conference with L'ville, Cincy, Temple, and whoever else may fit and agree. If indeed a split is inevitable, and the foundation was set, then the football schools need to make no bones about it and say so. And Notre Dame kept them all together? We all know the Irish are so dedicated to keeping Rutgers fb successful ::).

Instead of blame directed at those schools that left and the opportunistic and aggressive ACC, they needed to have addressed what cause of the departures in the first place: a conferated and fragmented conference structured just the way Notre Dame wants it to be. BE fb was good enough for Miami, but not for ND? Why would Miami or any other successful program want to maintain this stigma indefinitely?


I partially agree LND. The reason ND is in the conference in the first place is that I believe was part of the compromise for bringing in the FB schools to boost that side. Even if PSU was part of the BE, the FB side of the equation maybe never would have been answered. Perhaps PSU would have still left for the Big10. Or perhaps PSU would have left the BE and went to the ACC with Miami and BC. We will never know.

One other thought. The BE was always a hybrid conference. Miami never brought its baseball team into the BE either just like ND never brought its FB team into the BE. So, the BE was always making special deals.

I am waiting to see what the lawsuit against Miami will produce in terms of what Miami wanted to stay in the conference. There were rumor going around several years ago that stated Miami wanted several items addressed by the BE. I am assuming they wanted some long term solution to the hybrid question (hopefully the lawsuit will say something about that). They only got an answer to the exit fees.

Once the ACC said they were gong to expand, it was a no brainer for anyone to leave once approached. You would be going to a 'better' conference with teh potential to make more money in terms of revenue sharing.

If you remember, the ACC already had the highest per team revenue sharing of all the major conferences including the SEC (the SEC made more total money but had to divide it more ways).

The BE was never going to make as much money as the ACC unless the BE raided the ACC for at least FSU (and pick from Clemson, GT, NCSU, UM, or UVa).

Since the ACC was rock solid, the only potential candidates for expansion for the BE (upon breakup) would have been the following:

Cinn, UL, ECU, Memphis, Temple (?)

I'm not sure if that would have been good enough for the BE to get lots of money if thye couldnt raid the ACC for 'marquee' teams.

BE north:
UConn
BC
SU
RU
Pitt
Temple (?)

BE South:
Miami
VT
WVU
UL
ECU
Cinn

Would that have given the BE a contract in BB and FB that is comparable to the one the ACC just got?

One thing to keep in mind is that I believe (based on the court documents) the BE would have probably split had they had the votes or we able to negotiate to keep the BE name and their BB credits. There were questions about whether the BE would keep their BCS bid if they had another conference name. In addition, the BE FB schools would have left about $45 million dollars in NCAA BB tourney credits on the table. I could certainly see why the FB schools were a bit gunshy to try to leave.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:47 pm 
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Interesting commentary and reflection, Panther.
If the ACC a couple of years ago did not have the votes to expand, even if two or three members threatened to leave, it is curious to speculate how matters would have turned out.
Suppose there was no ACC expansion, and say Florida State, GT, and Clemson decided to leave, would the BE have absorbed them and agreed to expand to twelve for football? The BE would still have the hybrid and confederated factors as to its bb component, thus continued reluctance, and in my opinion, a new conference would have been formed, exclusive of the BE and consisting of the departed ACC teams and most, if not all, the BE fb component. Anything short, would have included Louisville for example.
Of course all this is irrelevant and hypothetical; but the point is, had the ACC not acted, there could have been significant changes anyway. And, if the ACC had departures, they would have expanded too, probably with even different BE teams, to get back to nine.
Of course, we will never know, had such happened, Florida State and company would have carried through on their stance. The SEC, though at twelve, could have played into this, but there are doubts the SEC would seek to go beyond twelve.
There are interesting "what ifs"!


Last edited by lionsndogs on Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:57 am 
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One last comment (IIRC)....

I believe reading through some articles the past few years that Louisville approached the BE about admission in the late 90s or early this decade. MT told them that they need to either boost their academics or athlethic infrastructure or both. The later part was addressed by Tom Jurich the AD. If Louisville had everything in order, perhaps they would have been admitted sooner.

Also, when expansion was happening in the late 80s/early 90s some members of the Metro conference tried to expand with the indys and BE members. They were looking to make an all sports conferece by looking at BC, SU, Pitt, Miami, Rutgers, Temple, WVU, VT. The BE expanded on the FB side taking essentially all their expansion candidates.

The Metro eventually evolved into CUSA (a hybrid) and so did the BE.

One of the main reasons the BE expanded was because the BE had a BB contract on CBS. CBS wanted to broadcast FB also or they were considering other options if the BE didn't get FB (something like that although the memory was fuzzy). Hence the FB additions...

The rest is history.....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:54 pm 
That Army and Navy, both fb independents would play an X number of games vs BE schools would be natural considering their locations. Obviously, with a schedule of 11 or 12 regular games per year, one would expect a few BE opponents to show on their schedule. It would even be more probable since BE fb schools play 7 conference opponents, rather than 8; and therefore, each BE school would have 4 to 5 OOC games to schedule per regular season. Regional schools, particularly independents, would be practical possibilities.

Notre Dame will play their traditional Big 10 rivals which exceeds BE opponents; and also play PAC 10 opponents which equal, or may exceed, what that have played with the BE fb.

Villanova, will count as a 1-AA opposition unless Div. 1-AA is eliminated and/or revised or Villanova declares and pursues an upgrade.

If one looks at Temple's fb schedule for next year, one may think they are on the verge of being ACC.

Hybrid is one thing. Confederated associations are another. News articles of "straws in the wind" are yet another. Hope for a certain commitment is still another.

Remember the stories of Notre Dame sending signals to the ACC and the Big Ten? The bottom line is OFFICIAL, SIGNED, and BONAFIDE AGREEMENTS.

Filling out a school's OOC slate is one thing, officially joining for BE fb is a different matter.

The BE has no fb criteria for cognate or auxillary members that embraces partial status.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:20 pm 
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IMO, the Big East needs to focus on strong football schools within the Eastern and Central time zones. They need to bring in programs that can compete in football right away, even if the other sports may need some improvement, which the BE affiliation could probably help quickly. I think the 12 team two division All Sports set up is the best way to go. That said here are the Universities I think would strengthen the conference the most:

1. Memphis - I have read many of the posts, both positive and negative for the school, including the so called "spat" with Louisville. But, Memphis has a great TV market #44, an up and coming football program with a fine stadium, strong basketball and one of the best basketball venues in the country. Memphis could be the cornerstone of the Big East's final expansion.

2. East Carolina - Geographically it's a good fit. The football program is down right now, but they have a solid fan base and a turn around with Holtz seems apparent. The basketball program is a diamond in the rough. Although the TV market isn't in the top 20, it's close at a suprising #35!

3. Southern Miss - What can you say about the football program there? These guys play as tough as any team in the nation. They will bring a more impressive football identity than any of the recent additions to the BE and that includes the so called CUSA king Louisville. They are expanding their stadium to around 45k to make them more attractive as well. The basketball situation isn't great, but they hired Larry Eustachy and he should turn things around quickly. It's a small TV market, but when you combine the 3 main areas they draw from, Hattiesburg, Jackson and the gulf coast, it gives them around 568K which would place their TV market at # 55.

4. UAB - Ok, this one's a reach. The football program is still a question mark and their budget concerns are a real issue. But, the basketball program is strong, they have a solid TV market #40 and good facilities. They are strong academically and well respected around the country for their medical school.

So these southern four combined with recent additions South Florida and Louisville could make up the Big East South. allowing the Big East to power into the deep south terrain that has always been dominated by the SEC.

The set up would look like this:

BE NORTH

1. SYRACUSE
2. UCONN
3. PITTSBURGH
4. RUTGERS
5. WEST VIRGINIA
6. CINCINNATI

SOUTH

1. LOUISVILLE
2. SOUTH FLORIDA
3. SOUTHERN MISS
4. MEMPHIS
5. EAST CAROLINA
6. UAB


What do you think?


Last edited by storm on Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:40 pm 
This looks like it could be a viable conference and similar to what some others have proposed at times. Agree with some of your key points. Actually though, UAB football has gotten better and Watson Brown has steadily built a sound program though they need that banner year.

It certainly goes south and deep south. You do realize though, it is pulling once again, all from C-USA----their Eastern division (no UCF & Marshall though).

Theoretically, such could happen, and the western division of C-USA, with adding a few such as N. Texas, La Tech, Ark. St., etc., could almost turn into a new version of the "old Southwest Conference".

There are BE interests that do not want any more schools that would further detract from the NE flavor. That is why you will see Tigershark present controversial designs that rely on current BE connections and regional scheduling.

Your design, Storm, has a lot to do with the status quo of the BCS holding, with ultimate pressure of the BE to expand, and the 12 team format gets further embraced.



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:00 pm 
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Doggy,the BE already took the best of CUSA.What is left over is a bunch third string schools in their states.Clearly UAB is inferior to both Auburn and Alabama as is EC behind UNC and NCST.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:24 pm 

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Doggy,the BE already took the best of CUSA.What is left over is a bunch third string schools in their states.Clearly UAB is inferior to both Auburn and Alabama as is EC behind UNC and NCST.


I do not disagree with you on your last two sentences. Certainly, L'ville was a prime choice from C-USA and Cincy (good bb also) and UCF were at least strong geographically-oriented choices. Obviously, you are correct in that C-USA is loaded with third string choices. The question is, if externally expanding, would the BE consider more directional and city named schools? As you know, all 1-A top choice state schools (east of the Mississippi) are already in BCS conferences.

Heck, very unfortunately, Tulane is near floating-------rather than housing their sports programs at LA Tech, maybe move them to Philly since that seems to a major point of discussion ::)!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:02 am 
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The Army and the Navy are coming to the aid of BE football.(4 games per season).Add this to the ND 3 games per season the problems are lessened.NO TEMPLE is only in BE history.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:49 am 
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How 'bout them Louisville Cardinals?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:31 pm 
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A league source with intimate knowledge of the applicable NCAA regulations tells us that Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis might have rendered quarterback Brady Quinn and other incoming seniors ineligible if, as ProFootballTalk.com previously has reported, Weis has directed the seniors with designs on pro football to pick their agents before the start of the 2006 season.
-- profootball.com

From SI ON Campus .com

Has anyone heard anything on this issue? rumor? fact?

If it is true there could be trouble under the Golden Dome.

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