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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:38 pm 
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Yes ND is really willimng to give up millions to join the B10.And of course Umass is going to have a rebirth of Calipiri bb and tens of millions are going to be spent on UMASS football.This will certainly happen.Lash please thank the guy who you met in the sand dunes who gave you this story.Has his saucer left yet????


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:21 pm 
Tigershark, would not Villanova have to spend tens of millions as well? Agree, Notre Dame is not giving up their special arrangements anytime soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:26 pm 
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ND is the Holy Grail for TS2. Other than that, what is his/her stance on the BE, what hope in the end?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:08 pm 

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ND is the Holy Grail for TS2. Other than that, what is his/her stance on the BE, what hope in the end?


Have you seen the quantity of press ND is receiving, particularly as a buildup to the upcoming game with Sou. Cal?

Agree, Notre Dame is getting a lot more from the BE than the BE is getting from ND. Notre Dame will never join BE fb; and really, if ND stopped playing BE bb, would that be such a great loss?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:23 pm 
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Quote:

Quote:
ND is the Holy Grail for TS2. Other than that, what is his/her stance on the BE, what hope in the end?


Have you seen the quantity of press ND is receiving, particularly as a buildup to the upcoming game with Sou. Cal?

Agree, Notre Dame is getting a lot more from the BE than the BE is getting from ND. Notre Dame will never join BE fb; and really, if ND stopped playing BE bb, would that be such a great loss?


Not at all. Kick ND west where they belong and concentrate on the east ... as in Big East.


Last edited by westwolf on Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:47 am 
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Yes ND gives nothing to the BE like
1.major bowl tie in(Sun/Gator)
2.3 lucrative games per year in 2010 on national tv.
3.help with the bcs.
This is all smoke.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:55 am 
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Villanova is very different from Umass.1.It already has successful BE programs.By enlarging its current stadium to 25k it could play some of its games (1AA /MAC/etc) and the rest at Upa or the LINC.Where would Umass play its big games in Boston?Both would have to enlarge their football training facilities to be in the BE.However,UMASS would need to raise all its other athletic programs to BE level,and its BE membership would be based on BE breakup.(a very step price for umass football)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:52 pm 
Certainly the Presidents of the BE basketball schools would have no problem with Notre Dame as is. They are an ally for their cluster.

The BE football schools that Notre Dame would cringe at playing anyway, i. e. newcomers Louisville, USF, and Cincinnati, realize Notre Dame would not ever join them in fb conference play.

UCONN, while activists (aka lawsuits vs Miami, ACC & Co.) realize Notre Dame is beyond their development, and may be less vocal on this.

Rutgers is re-building in fb, but know they are a player in whatever happens and be solidly with the fb contingent.

BUT WHY IN THE WORLD, WEST VIRGINIA, SYRACUSE, AND PITTSBURGH need to continue to play the role of bridesmaids to Notre Dame who refuses to even come to the alter with BE football? There are plenty of enablers for Notre Dame, these three have been established enough for decades not to be cast in a role as second fiddle to an independent.

They should REFUSE bowl tie-ins with Notre Dame as any other BCS conference would. If it means fewer bowl options, so be it; don't sacrifice long-term dignity and opportunity for immediate, second tier bowl money.

If the BE is going to cast off its inferiority complex, first dissolve the Notre Dame nonsense. What these BE fans portray as a grand association is actually holding them back. BE leadership is a Notre Dame agent and there is a conflict-of-interest when it comes to fb. Certain current BE fb schools need to come to terms with this. No wonder the once strong profiles of Syracuse and Pittsburgh have been tarnished and will impact WVU as well.



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:59 pm 
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What these BE fans portray as a grand association is actually holding them back. BE leadership is a Notre Dame agent and there is a conflict-of-interest when it comes to fb. Certain current BE fb schools need to come to terms with this. No wonder the once strong profiles of Syracuse and Pittsburgh have been tarnished and will impact WVU as well.


SU and Pitt were down not because of the association with ND in the BE - if that is what you meant in your post.

The reason Pitt was down is because of the lack of support from the administration from the late 80s to the mid 90s which erroded the program. The program never had a lot of fans and never has the support of PSU, OSU, or even South Carolina to withstand a decade of 'terrible' teams.

Only with the change to Mark Nordenburg and a committment to athletic, new AD, new stadium and facilites was the program able to 'turn it around'. As you can see though, if the team isnt doing well the program will struggle for fans.

I cannot speak for SU but maybe they didnt put the money into facilities like they should have - maybe they got complacent.

As to your first point - how is having ND 'holding the BE back'? If you would have said this in 2003 before the raid, then you would be correct. But now?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:25 pm 
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Only a TRUE IDIOT or ND hater would continue with the trash.Syracuse seems to be considering enlarging the dome to 60k.One reason is that ND rarely plays in a stadium under 60k.Syracuse and ND are talking about continuing their series.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:19 pm 
That Villanova weed must be good stuff?

PantherSC97, of course Notre Dame is hurting BE football, particularly the major ones. Syracuse was ready to leave for the ACC. They are down, because not enough big time schools are affiliating as members. The prime ones there have no where to go and have struggled to find bowl deals depending upon ND's coattails. Why was the BE conference, with a BCS label, vulnerable, to the ACC of all conferences--not talking Big10 here---but a south Atlantic one? Any of them appears to would have accepted. What has held the BE back to have retained equal status? Oh, the untouchable and revered Notre Dame cannot be cited as a factor in this? It was very known, and spoken about, directly from Boston College sources, the school's frustrations with Notre Dame. West Virginia"s fb even commented something to the effect they need to relieve themselves or get off the stool. Syracuse had to swallow the embarrassment.
Oh, Notre Dame is going to promise the BE a third game? Wow, bow, and kiss their feet. Virginia Tech and Miami nor any other prime conference would do that.
The prime schools in the region are not in the BE. Penn State would never drop back and down, BC is gone, Maryland was never there, and Miami and VPI made their achievements and left.
The support system in the BE has dwindled. Aren't many of you debating such wild proposals as MWC consolidation on one hand and wishing upon Villanova on the other?
My criticism of Syracuse, Pitt, etc. is not that they are not good schools, they are. Of course they can improve, rebound, and have much success. But for them to associate in deference to Notre Dame is not advancing their cause.
Notre Dame is using the BE for basketball! Period! It is hardly a two way street.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:59 pm 
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The BE has ALWAYS made special deals too - Miami didn't have its baseball in the BE - of course the 'BB-only' schools don't have FB. Whose fault is that? ND? The BB schools? The FB schools?

The problem with BC, SU, VT, or even Miami leaving was not reflective on ND but the BB only schools in general. The question of what 'kind' of conference the BE was - was never answered.

The BE had 8 FB schools and 6 BB schools (including ND). Therefore the BE was ripe to be raided because the FB side could not have expanded any further within the BE umbrella as constitued with a single table within the conference - there wasn't a Gavitt plan where the BE FB schools could operate independently of the BB schools.

This was not the fault of ND - but of the BB schools and the failure of the FB schools to control THEIR future. Appearently, only Miami saw what other possibilities lie ahead without the BB schools.

The BE was still going to be ripe for a raid regardless if hte BE FB schools split off. The ACC was making more money and would have continued to make more money even if the BE expanded with UC and UL to goto 10 teams.

So, if the ACC was such a bad 'conference' - why did they have bigger TV contracts? Both the BE FB and BB were getting SMALLER contracts - $25 million less than the ACC. The ACC had a total contract of $50 million prior to expansion. I blame MT for a smaller contract but still the ACC would have made more money even with a better commish.

To reiterate, the BE FB schools never decided their own fate - never took the bull by the horns and made their own destiny. No other power conference team would have joined the BABE even when Miami and VT were around... therefore, those teams would have left anyway.

ITS NOT NDs FAULT the BE is in the mess is it today!! Its the FB schools fault!!

You are correct that no other conference would do what the BE is doing. The reason ND did that and the BE needed them to do that was the fact that the BE was severly weakend and needed some help. What would you have expect the BE to do in their situation - after VT and Miami left?

SU, RU, Pitt, WVU, and UConn couldn't leave the BE for various reasons - mostly too much money would have been lost.

ND is needed right now to get bowl deals for the BE and potential home games for the other conference members. This was the best solution given the circumstances the BE FB schools were under in 2003.

What would have been your solution?

We'll see what happens in 2010 if the FB schools split and what they decide to do with ND and what ND does.


Last edited by panthersc97 on Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:08 pm 
Exactly, the mistakes were made long ago. It is no recent thing. Of course 'Cuse and company had to swallow the situation and compromise as they did and expand with what they could. They are coping with other in-conference entities who are exercising their rights and privileges. These schools, all of them (recognizing point of entry for each), created this structure and are living with it pending a split. Notre Dame is one force within the mix who was invited in.
Yes the BE is to blame. Notre Dame is part of the BE thus shares the blame for the totality of the structure from their point of entry. Call it hybrid, confederated, certain sports only, etc. it is what it is. Miami's case of playing baseball outside the BE is minor. So, South Carolina and Kentucky play C-USA soccer----they are not SEC hybrids. It is a matter of options. Virginia Tech and others did not play BE bb till late. Yes, that is BE design, preferences, and their acceptance mechanism.
As to Notre Dame, the blame is not fixated at them for reaping all the advantages, i. e. basketball, from the BE. I pointed at the enablers for this, not the enabled.

Solution: I posted on this many times. The best interests for the prime BE schools that have "all sports" intents are to split as the structured time frame concludes. This would be followed by expanding with two to four schools that are not currently part of the BE structure.
If the status quo remains, is it not in Notre Dame's best interests? They have their TV contract for fb, free scheduling, and the best acceptable home for bb already. On the other hand, some, including myself, believe it is in the best interest of Syracuse, WVU, Pitt, etc. to split and form an all-sports league. Actions that promote the status quo, encompassing Notre Dame's viewed interests, can work to the contrary for the BE fb schools. Notre Dame is not bonding to be an option to an alternative BE bowl slot for the love of BE football. Nor are they promising a third game with a BE school simply out of affection or needed money. It is maintaining desired leverage.
There are schools outside the BCS that would readily jump at a BE offer--the ECUs', Marshalls' and so forth. And, there is the BE football establishment that would jump to another neighboring BCS conference if the invitations were extended. The BE helped make their own pecking order. Their networking and interplay with Notre Dame has played a small, though important, part in the physical and psychological dimensions of the BE conference.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:49 pm 
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Great alternatives third rate back woods schools or deep south schools will hardly increase BE football strength.A pure idiot could make a better solution.Kill the bb league and separate from ND will not strengthen BE football..(Build a northern version of cusa.)What a load of crap.Build the programs up at Louisville,WVU,PItt and Syracuse.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:17 pm 

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Great alternatives third rate back woods schools or deep south schools will hardly increase BE football strength.A pure idiot could make a better solution.Kill the bb league and separate from ND will not strengthen BE football..(Build a northern version of cusa.)What a load of crap.Build the programs up at Louisville,WVU,PItt and Syracuse.


There's your fantasy Tigersharktwo, there is no separation from Notre Dame; Notre Dame was never a BE football member. While you detest the south, the BE defectors opted to go south with the other wanting to, and the two of the BE replacements are from the south. Maybe Villanova's problem is they are not in the south ;).


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