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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:35 pm 
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It's funny to think that the Big XII, the conference that almost a year ago, stood <-> that close to a meltdown could be the conference that would force Notre Dame's hand. There is no doubt here that at least one of the hypothetical two spots up for grabs in the B12 will go to a Big East school. Only grabbing Rutgers and USF wouldn't taint the Big East's illustrious, though now muddied, basketball pedigree. A one-two punch of invites to UL or Cincy would instantly burden the Big East into tapping even more "worthless" all-sports members, or raiding the A-10 of Xavier, Butler, or Dayton to further the issues wedging the basketball schools from the footballers.

If the Big XII took Louisville and Cincinnati, there would be virtually no reason for ND to stick with it. It would be like football having to fall in line for the sake of basketball.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:09 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
It's funny to think that the Big XII, the conference that almost a year ago, stood <-> that close to a meltdown could be the conference that would force Notre Dame's hand. There is no doubt here that at least one of the hypothetical two spots up for grabs in the B12 will go to a Big East school. Only grabbing Rutgers and USF wouldn't taint the Big East's illustrious, though now muddied, basketball pedigree. A one-two punch of invites to UL or Cincy would instantly burden the Big East into tapping even more "worthless" all-sports members, or raiding the A-10 of Xavier, Butler, or Dayton to further the issues wedging the basketball schools from the footballers.

If the Big XII took Louisville and Cincinnati, there would be virtually no reason for ND to stick with it. It would be like football having to fall in line for the sake of basketball.



There aren't any issues wedging the basketball schools. In 2003, it was "you can have 3 football for our 2 basketball". In 2012, it was "invite whoever you want for football and once you've invited 6 new football schools (4 all-sports), would you be so kind to take Memphis so that we can have 1 good basketball school added...we'll even get Villanova to let you guys bring Temple in for all sports".

Basketball Big East schools want to be tied to football to remain relevant. In 2003, they still had some pull. But now, football runs the show.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:38 am 
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article on BCA thread

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/f ... t=cf_t2_a3

This plan reeks of Delaney and the B1G.

If this plan was in use last year and Wisconsin was ranked 6th instead of 10th then #2 Alabama doesn't make it. You would have had #1 LSU vs #6 Wisconsin and # 3 Oklahoma State vs #5 Oregon.



Hypothetically according to this plan, Notre Dame some how ends up ranked #1 in the country, USC is # 2, Texas is #3, Alabama is #4 and Ohio State is #6 . Notre Dame wouldn't make the playoffs because we have 4 conference champs in the top 6. #1 Notre Dame (BYU or other small school) doesn't make it but #6 Ohio State does. AWESOME! :P

Any wonder why Notre Dame doesn't want to do business with them.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:11 pm 
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It's true. Say what you want about the bowls and how they'll overlook better teams to take advantage of bigger and better fanbases (Michigan for MSU last year), the conferences are just as sick and twisted with greed and bloat.

We have this system because multiple conferences (PAC-10 most vocal) AND Notre Dame were pissed that a program like BYU could "circumvent" the system by winning a national championship at a non-factor of a bowl (Holiday) outside the typical major bowl window (imagine, a football championship game in December!!!). Then, a decade or so later, you'd see the Big Ten screwed twice by polling shenanigans which favored Nebraska football. It was a nuisance when Penn State got hosed. It was untenable that Michigan was forced to share it.

As for Big East basketball, Quinn, part of what forced the defections of three football programs (with ALL fb programs applying for the ACC, as well as 'Nova) was very much tied to the differences in philosophy between footballers and basketballers. Read Luck's words. Read Boeheim's (who, while only a coach, didn't draw a public rebuff from his superiors, meaning...he said what the school officials also truly felt). This was about schools like Notre Dame, essentially no different a member than Providence or Seton Hall, having a say in all-sports memberships, television contracts, and...can't say this one enough...SUBSIDIZING a football program (Villanova). This was about a couple of schools acting as a bloc and forcing the direction of the entire conference. This was always the problem within the conference.

Oh, and remember: TCU didn't get a unanimous vote for all-sports inclusion. How about that one, eh?

It's easy to say now that football drives the bus...understand that without some of the oldest Big East members remaining, and an essential coup of sorts of all its football members, the basketball schools were forced to let footballers have more say. While you are correct to say that there are more all-sports members now, don't think for a second that membership comes at the price of knowing that a Notre Dame or Marquette could STILL force your program to take a football TV contract that you know may not be in your best interest by voting collectively. So...still a problem.

For Notre Dame, yes...one of their kids said one of the most scathing things about the new additions when it was hinted the conference would be tapping additional C-USA clubs. Remember the comment made about trading Syracuse on the schedule for SMU? When you are Notre Dame basketball, and your membership into the conference was dependent on playing UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and Georgetown...only first to lose BC, and then Syracuse and Pitt...what makes BEB all that interesting? Sure, having Louisville and Cincy still around helps immensely. But, like I said earlier, what happens if, and indulge me here, it's Cincy and UL that leave next? Or it's UConn?

The terms for ND's membership to BEB were about being in the nation's best eastern basketball conference while still being a non-football member. Well, BEB is no longer "best." It's down to third. Soon to be even worse. Now, how about we talk about what's keeping Notre Dame around the Big East?

Football isn't the only thing driving EVERY athletic department or conference.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Great article out of Bloomsberg, written last year, detailing how NBC's new parent company might not be so faithful to Notre Dame during the next round of television negotiations.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/no ... 82011.html

I think the author of the article makes an excellent point. Notre Dame football has been mediocre at best recently and the Nielsen ratings reflect that. Why would Comcast fork over the amount of money that NBC has in the past to a program whose on the field product isn't deserving of the figures it once was?

This is what could force them to join a conference. The Pac-12, Big Ten, SEC, and even the ACC are signing big money contracts with tv networks that are paying more per team than what Notre Dame is cashing in from NBC. In order to keep up with the Jones', Notre Dame might have to join them.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:53 am 
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diabsoule wrote:
Great article out of Bloomsberg, written last year, detailing how NBC's new parent company might not be so faithful to Notre Dame during the next round of television negotiations.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/no ... 82011.html

I think the author of the article makes an excellent point. Notre Dame football has been mediocre at best recently and the Nielsen ratings reflect that. Why would Comcast fork over the amount of money that NBC has in the past to a program whose on the field product isn't deserving of the figures it once was?

This is what could force them to join a conference. The Pac-12, Big Ten, SEC, and even the ACC are signing big money contracts with tv networks that are paying more per team than what Notre Dame is cashing in from NBC. In order to keep up with the Jones', Notre Dame might have to join them.


Absolutely not good for Notre Dame. Absolutely amazing for the Big Ten. If it's money, then it's actually in Notre Dame's interest now to saddle up to the Big Ten and have the both of them approach NBC/Comcast and utterly blow the competition away (and I think the B1G+ND could EASILY dwarf the best the SEC could get anywhere).

And, if the B1G wanted an even bigger payoff, they'd sack ND and BC and use hockey as a bonus package.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:10 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
diabsoule wrote:
Great article out of Bloomsberg, written last year, detailing how NBC's new parent company might not be so faithful to Notre Dame during the next round of television negotiations.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/no ... 82011.html

I think the author of the article makes an excellent point. Notre Dame football has been mediocre at best recently and the Nielsen ratings reflect that. Why would Comcast fork over the amount of money that NBC has in the past to a program whose on the field product isn't deserving of the figures it once was?

This is what could force them to join a conference. The Pac-12, Big Ten, SEC, and even the ACC are signing big money contracts with tv networks that are paying more per team than what Notre Dame is cashing in from NBC. In order to keep up with the Jones', Notre Dame might have to join them.


Absolutely not good for Notre Dame. Absolutely amazing for the Big Ten. If it's money, then it's actually in Notre Dame's interest now to saddle up to the Big Ten and have the both of them approach NBC/Comcast and utterly blow the competition away (and I think the B1G+ND could EASILY dwarf the best the SEC could get anywhere).

And, if the B1G wanted an even bigger payoff, they'd sack ND and BC and use hockey as a bonus package.


The best conference options for the Irish are the Big Ten and ACC and both have their positives and negatives:

The Big Ten could invite Notre Dame (along with Boston College, which is an idea I've floated since the B1G expanding with Nebraska). The history between the conference and university is storied considering the geographic ties and long-standing tradition between the Irish and of the B1G's members. The Big Ten has a great tv contract which would significantly increase Notre Dame's coffers and fit the strong academic profile that the Irish would likely seek when and if they do decide to join a conference.

If Jim Delaney wanted to make a bold, progressive move he could also invite Rutgers and UConn to join to pair with Notre Dame and Boston College which would all help bolster the already high academic standing of the Big Ten. Not to mention that all four universities sponsor hockey which would all increase membership in the newly created Big Ten Hockey conference. Not to mention that UConn and Notre Dame increase the prestige in Big Ten basketball and Rutgers opens up the NYC market for the Big Ten Network. Imagine the ratings draw in the city if Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Nebraska, and even Penn State and Wisconsin visit the Scarlet Knights just in the city alone.

In that scenario the Big Ten could split into four (tentative) pods:
Midwest - Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin
North - Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Purdue
South - Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Ohio State
East - Boston College, Penn State, Rutgers, UConn

They could then host their own conference Final Four like has been proposed if the SEC would ever go to 16 teams.

Idealistic? Yes. Far-fetched? Considerably, especially given the conservative nature of the Big Ten. Lucrative? Almost assuredly.

The ACC, on the other hand, is a far better fit for Notre Dame considering their being the most prestigious academic conference outside of the Ivy League. ACC expansion to 16 with Notre Dame and UConn would boost the ACC into THE premier basketball conference. UConn, Notre Dame, Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt in a basketball tournament with noisemakers Florida State and N.C. State would draw the attention of the nation. Expansion with the two aforementioned schools would also increase the conference's football standing by bringing in a university like Notre Dame. Long-time rival Boston College being in the conference doesn't hurt as doesn't Florida State and Miami who have both had rivalries with the Irish. Pitt and Syracuse also provide flashback match-ups for the Irish.

The ACC could also develop the pod system like is proposed for the Big Ten but the football draw is considerably less considering the lackluster performance of the conference as a whole on the gridiron.

Needless to say, either way you lack at it, Big Ten or ACC, it's beneficial for the Irish to at least take a long, hard look at what conference membership could do not only to raise the prestige of Notre Dame even more but to also help them financially which is what conference membership (and expansion) is all about.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Chip Brown article suggesting that Big 10 BCS proposal with mostly conference champions is meant to "scare" ND into joining a conference "like" the Big 10. Link at http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID ... &PT=4&PR=2


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:17 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Chip Brown article suggesting that Big 10 BCS proposal with mostly conference champions is meant to "scare" ND into joining a conference "like" the Big 10. Link at http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID ... &PT=4&PR=2


I don't doubt that the Big Ten, as well as others, are tired of the "most favored" status ND pulls, as well as not being a fan of the way they behave where they already hold memberships.

I've heard it before that Chip is just a shill for UT's program, being the village idiot for the sake of seeing UT fall into better circumstances. There's probably fire to go with that smoke. Such a hypothetical is so obvious when Dodds is so adamant about keeping bowls out of the the playoff. No bowls means a deemphasis on conference champion tie-ins, and that's good for Notre Dame, which is bad for the Big Ten, which, then in turn, is good for the Big XII.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:36 am 
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Notre Dame has a "contingency plan" should their situation change.

I lose more and more respect for this institution the older I grow.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:04 am 
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Ditto.

Can't they just figure out where they really wnat to be, go "all in" with that conference, and quit jerking everyone around ?

It's oh-so-like dating a gorgeous girl who enjoys being a manipulative drama queen... meanwhile she is slowly getting older and losing her attractiveness.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:21 am 
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While Notre Dame is largely silent per public information related to expansion/joining a conference, they sure are active in joining a suit against federal mandates for health insurance providers to offer birth control prescription coverage to employees of religious insitutions who object on theological grounds.

The message is ND is again working to re-build the BE. The expansion focus for the BE has been on fb. So, ND wants to continue to work to re-build BE fb, but of course, not contribute anything of substance with their own fb program. Hasn't this mechanism been largely a failure and directly damaging to some other BE members?

I would not want someone with a football in their hands who refuses to toss it to me, but has a big role in telling me who I can really play ball with.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Had the school tuned out the alumni, they would already be members of the Big Ten, and the entire college athletic landscape would be different. That was in '99.

This is more the Big East's own fault than ND's, because the Big East has lost all of its best stock for the sake of keeping ND's associate membership. It's not like the conference hasn't heard it. I'm sure the schools that align with Notre Dame's thinking have heard far worse than whatever Luck, Boeheim, or Calhoun have publicly implied. We know all the football schools (and Villanova) applied for the ACC and/or elsewhere last year when SU and Pitt split. If it's that bad for the current BEF'ers, just...leave.

Where I lose it for Notre Dame is how, even publicly, this is about them first, THEN their conference affiliation. And it seems like I've never run into the kind of story where Swarbick, or those before him, or one of the coaches utterly oozes about the Big East, and why it's so good to be there, and why more conferences should be like that. You get that elsewhere. Not coincidentally, those conferences where the support is so strong, are also the most stable and successful. Just once I'd like to hear the Irish say something about affiliation before the independence thing, or not even talk about the independence thing. The independence thing is soley theirs, and it comes across as self-righteous and foolish as one who cracks themselves up laughing at their own jokes.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Brett McMurphy blog article with comments from ND AD regarding the BCS and the Big 12 at http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... y/19134246


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:19 am 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Brett McMurphy blog article with comments from ND AD regarding the BCS and the Big 12 at http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... y/19134246


The king of talking out of both sides of one's mouth:

Quote:
"Our operating assumption is we will remain aligned with the Big East. I don't want to create the impression that there's some active evaluation of that going on. As I've said many times, we're sensitive to the changes and monitor them closely..."


But, to be fair to the Irish, this is a big reason ND doesn't mind being a pain in the tookus to the Big Ten. Problem is, it's more than just the Big Ten that's made to suffer.


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