I don't agree that Notre Dame is causing the Big Ten to suffer in any way. I think both sides have agreed that Notre Dame is not a good fit for the Big Ten. The Big Ten doesn't need Notre Dame; and if Notre Dame needs to join another conference, the ACC and Big 12 appear willing.

What they have are some good rivalries. Ending those rivalries would hurt both sides, but Notre Dame more. The Big Ten would have some leverage, but has no interest in using it. The status quo works fine for both sides, so why change it?

I do agree that Notre Dame's refusal to join the Big East for football has contributed greatly to the demise of that conference, but it has no real negative affect on the Big Ten.

Nothing "bad" happens to the Big Ten if Notre Dame stays its present course. But if they leave the Big East, and put their other sports in another conference, it will be the cancer of that new conference. And if the Big East is "torn asunder," and it spurs some absorption by other conferences, it does place the Big Ten in a sticky place of grabbing eastern exposure for the sake of visibility. I know the B1G > ACC, but the ACC is pretty close to locking up the east, with the SEC, which does jeopardize future revenue gain.

The Big Ten doesn't get "hurt," other than potentially having to take two "dead weight" eastern schools that don't fit the Big Ten "type" where maybe it didn't need any if it had Notre Dame (I'd assume a couple of schools would jump to join the Irish). And I think the Big Ten MUST move east, with or without Notre Dame.

I think the conference can do better than Rutgers...but I believe the Scarlet Knights are an inevitable grab the longer the conference doesn't possess the Irish, and that is bad for the conference.

Good discussion above.

It has been said the two games ND does not want to relinquish at all, are the very long time series with USC and Navy.

While playing some others such as Stanford, Pitt, BC, and sometimes AFA and even BYU, could be compromised to adjust to a future conference schedule; I would expect games vs Michigan, MSU, and Purdue would be tough to let go of as regulars. Even Penn State, and the fewer occasions with Ohio State, were intense draws.
The B1G is the conference with the most "common" rivals for ND. That, of course, is not saying the B1G would definitely be the best overall conference for ND. While ND may not be a "must have" for the B1G to maintain or expand their level of prominence, their is value, mutually, to be seriously weighed in the contemplation process.

When we look at expansion and realignment, often fundamental scheduling is viewed as a secondary factor when focusing on the overall picture. It does come down for a particular school as to "who you are willing to play" for an indefinte period. The B12 and ACC would have fine opponents for ND, and ND has often played several of the schools, particularly a few now in the ACC. And that '69 Cotton Bowl game with Texas was a classic.

A lot of schools, such as Penn State, radically changed whom they played when they joined a conference. WVU's schedule will radically change, as will Texas A&Ms' and Mizzous', among others.

Aside from revenue factors, independence image, etc., it appears ND is just not ready to relinquish full control of their own fb scheduling. They project that their games are somehow sacred, and appear to dismiss the concept that all things come to an end.

I just don't view ND shall join a conference for fb unless they are forced into it or the alternative has gotten so negative, joining a conference would obviously provide much greater financial security. The pressure has to come from the system that enables, because ND certainly will not do it on their own.
ND has to be watching this "playoff proposal" with a keen eye.

Even as a B1G fan, while it pains me to say it, ND strengthens the conference's athletic and academic prominence. Others could do this, too, but none have the relationship with conference ND already has.

Every school the B1G could probably readily add detract from the academic prestige or athletic one. Or, they are unattainable with a ton of baggage. With Notre Dame, it's that schedule. And Notre Dame should protect it. I know they could and would walk away from Pitt, Stanford, and maybe even BC or MSU...but the SA games are sacred, and Navy and USC should be untouchable.

It's a shame Navy protects itself so much. I'd love to see both Navy and ND as B1G schools. You might literally see tradition ooze from its footprint.

I'd settle for ND and BC, but BC is a bit of a drop from ND. It's the same for any school the B1G could easily get.

I believe ND would be happiest in the ACC. The conference appears flexible with schedule, and the Ollies would be in heaven. But if they haven't gone by now, I don't know if or when they ever would.

Theoretically, Notre Dame can remain independent right up until the point where every "power conference" is filled up.

As long as we don't reach a point where say four 16-team conferences break away into a "big time" division, Notre Dame can cling to their precious independence.

If a playoff structure evolves that is seeded by a selection committee (that will entertain "at-large" entries, such as conference runners-up and / or independents),
they have a path to the NC game (assuming their team becomes more competitive).

From what I gather, their athletic department is on solid financial footing, and a few million $$$ more just isn't sufficient inducement to get them to consider
a repitition of the last battle with [somewhat irratinal] alumni about thier precious independence in football.
However, one would think that if a new structure came along that truly threatened to make independents irrelevant, the ND administration would start dancing.

Even if they all filled up to 16, one would go to 18 to bring in ND and one lucky school w/ the golden ticket. Plus they won't break away. They need the rest of the FBS to fill out their home schedule and get easy wins.

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If the deal is "if Notre Dame is in the top 6", they can be picked; I suppose many computer tweaks could happen to facilitate that along with pollsters and media that favor them, due to the audience they attract and the publicity they generate. Whatever, those slighted (ranked above/equal to ND & not selected) and the conferences they are from, will not be pleased about it.

As with a few of the other big names, ND can get boosted a few numbers ahead of others based on their name and appeal. Polling is not without certain bias.

I just don't believe they will settle on a playoff format without more controversy. Even if there was, indeed, 4 balanced (16 member types), particularly in numbers, that are top to bottom a cut above all the rest, then all 4 conference champions would appear to be the most practical way to go. But the system is not there (yet), nor am I suggesting it should be.

This trend toward NFL-ish' design per the proclaimed elite, may get too exclusionary way too quick to understand & predict all the ramifications.

Let ND have a fair (as opposed to special or preferred) avenue for the playoff, if the concept means fairness for all contenders; but don't give them (ND) unique criteria of assurance that exceeds what another independent, runner-up, or a champion of a conference outside the big 4 would have.

Bottom line is that Notre Dame has to finish ranked in the top 4 to make the playoffs. More than likely, Notre Dame will have to finish undefeated due to their lack of conference championship game.

CSNBBS MB thread discussing unconfirmed report regarding NBC/ND tv contract extention at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=574118

Chip Brown article(previously posted in another thread)discussing "possibility" of ND being "frozen out" of new FB playoffs and being forced to join a conference "like" the Big 12 at http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID ... &PT=4&PR=2

Ugh. I really hope this isn't true. And if ND thinks their BE share will be worth $3-5m when the footballers could be seeing $6-8m, the Irish will be sadly mistaken. No way do the remaining originals and NBE'ers agree to let that much money go to the hoop schools.

Chip Brown article(previously posted in another thread)with more on possible ND non FB sports move from BE to Big 12 at http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID ... &PT=4&PR=2

Given McMurphy hinting to a 4-team system selected by a committee with preference toward conference champions, Chip should take a knee on these B12-generated rumors instead of tossing another hail mary.

If the news of this playoff structure is true, it just hit the fan all over again.

After you, Notre Dame!

Swarbick shoots down the rumors, but...



I know two schools who will either block them or make for sure they don't have any say in football matters. Want to guess?

Translation time:



"If we don't get what we want, we go. We bring the brand, you give us the money. We're not the repairmen and we don't cause the problems, because, we bring the brand..."

The ACC has 5 former BE all-sports members. They delt with the hybrid and ND in for just bb/non-fb sports. Schools such as BC pointed to ND for not playing BE football as among the reasons for departing the BE. It's hard to imagine why any of those five would want to go back to a hybrid situation in their new conference. Pitt & BC have ND scheduled as a regular fb opponent, but even if ND moved non-fb sports to the ACC, they would still be OOC games.

I can't imagine a school such as Clemson supporting such.

Taking ND without its fb program, is labeling the conference not good enough for ND fb, though in practical terms such would not be true.

If ND's select fb opponents and Independence remain that sacred to them, then they need to stay where they are and live with the BE confusion they are a fundamental part of.

Even the B12 would have some fb expections for ND for defined terms; and they would have it in a contract, unlike the BE did in giving ND zero obligations for fb yet possessing the favored voting powers. As soon as ND would join the B12, the pressure would start for ND to make a complete (fb) commitment. ND knows this, and thus, the added reluctance. The Chip Browns' of the college fb world won't be riding off into the sunset.