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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:31 am 
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This article succinctly summarizes the situation:

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20051017-115909-5530r.htm

"The Big East is in jeopardy of falling behind the non-BCS Mountain West Conference as the sixth-highest rated league"


Last edited by westwolf on Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:46 am 
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The MWC is clearly worse as a sports conference than the BE.The MWC market stinks and is not getting better with addition of Boise State.Clearly Pitt is improving and Louisville and WVU are big time atletic programs.UConn and Rutgers are improving.The only thing that the BE is missing is a full member as atop 10 team.However to some significant degree this is made up for by ND.What idiot would sacrifice a MWC team like TCU for getting ND into a BCS bowl.Its not just the BE that the MWC is fighting it is ND(those guys with their own tv pact)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:27 am 
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The author makes the statement about falling behind the MWC but doesnt say how.

If they MWC goes to 12.. then perhaps... but then again they have 4 more teams. The MWC can expand with teams that add potentially high BCS rankings - The options for the BE are severly limited.

This conference has not even completed one year and is already being written off. Give the BE a chance... after next year we should know....





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:40 am 
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What idiot would sacrifice a MWC team like TCU for getting ND into a BCS bowl.


TCU is one of two teams in the Mountain West Conference that has an AP National Championship as well as a Heisman Trophy winner.

They have several Cotton Bowl appearances as well as 2 Sugar Bowl appearances and 1 Orange Bowl appearance.

There's quite a bit of tradition at that school.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:09 am 
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I realize what you are saying Metropolitan but I think most college FB fans and more importantly the bowl execs would take a 9-2 ND over a 11-0 or 10-1 TCU.

In addition, the tradition of ND is more than what TCU has (not knocking TCUs bowl history, etc)





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:57 am 
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I realize what you are saying Metropolitan but I think most college FB fans and more importantly the bowl execs would take a 9-2 ND over a 11-0 or 10-1 TCU.

In addition, the tradition of ND is more than what TCU has (not knocking TCUs bowl history, etc)





I totally agree PantherSC97.

Its just that TS2 talks in absolutes, like TCU has absolutely nothing. He talks like the answer to the question is an "on/off switch". I wanted to interject some relativity. Probably of all the non-BCS schools, save BYU, Army, and Navy, TCU probably has the most tradition, and even exceeds the tradition of some BCS schools.


Last edited by metropolitan on Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:59 am 
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The MountianWeak Conference will have a Conf USA team as it champion this year. Enough said!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:01 am 
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Westwolf, please don't tell me you take the Washington Times seriously.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:20 pm 

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Westwolf, please don't tell me you take the Washington Times seriously.


Exactly why are you criticizing Westwolf for presenting yet another "eastern based" editorial claiming the obvious? It may be these eastern sportswriters and columnists are seeing a need, want it fixed, and have the best interests of the BE at its core. Why should it be assumed some sportswriter in New Jersey, for example, is championing the MWC?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:41 pm 
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The only thing that the BE is missing is a full member as atop 10 team.However to some significant degree this is made up for by ND.


ND? Top 10? I don't see them listed there. What has any of that to do with the BE anyway?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:35 pm 
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The MountianWeak Conference will have a Conf USA team as it champion this year. Enough said!


Hmmm... wasn't the Big East hoping that a former Conference USA team would prop up its BCS status this year and maybe even go undefeated?

Anyway, ND has its perfect situation right now. Its independence in football allows it to enter into its own TV contracts and keep its status as the one true national school. Meanwhile, it can be a member of the deepest basketball conference in the country where it can play its East Coast and Midwestern Catholic school rivals. ND has no reason to change its status at all right now.

The question is what will ND do when the BE inevitably splits between the basketball-only and football schools (the 16 team conference is going to be fun while it lasts, but it's financially unsustainable).

The biggest problem I've had with all of the wishful thinking that ND will join the BE for football is that ND does not have anything in common at all with the BE football schools. While ND obviously has much in common with the BE basketball-only schools as a Catholic university, none of the BE football schools match up with ND in terms of school personality or geography. Even though Pitt and Syracuse may play ND on a regular basis, neither can be called a great rival of ND. The ACC would have probably been the best fit for ND's personality as a smaller private institution; the Big Ten matches up with ND in every other category in terms of geography and historical rivalries. The BE football schools provide neither, regardless of how weak or not weak the conference is. It can't be objectively explained to me why would ND ever want to be a part of that situation.

Can anyone logically explain to me why ND, if they ever succumbed to joining a conference, would choose to play in a conference with Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU (these are the historically strong BE schools that ND has played regularly - I'm not even talking about USF or Cincinnati) over Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State? Unless you're drinking some mighty fine kool-aid, how can that possibly make sense?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:34 pm 
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illinibluedemon, I for one did not want to see Louisville win the Big East this year. It really makes the Big East look bad if a new team comes in a steals the show. Of course the ACC is excused because the new teams were Big East teams! There is a big difference in Louisville coming in as Conf USA champion and winner of the Liberty Bowl and 10 and 1 record and TCU going to the Mountain Weak Conference and winning the thing. What was the score of the Louisville TCU game last year?

Dogsnthings, first why does everyone think the BE wants help. Secondly, if you think that Washington DC rag paper with article about BE has the Big East best interest at heart, maybe your drinking some of the koolaid that illinibluedemon was suggesting. DC always has bashed the Big East to help Maryland and Virginia. Obviously the old ACC really needed help as FSU would have been the highest ranked team and not much better than the new Big East is this year.

Someone needs to remind the Washington Times that the ACC is OK now with the help of the old Big East and not to worry so much about the new Big East.

Since its almost basketball season, the DC paper is bashing the new BE because its going to steal the show from the old guard of the ACC. DC is a Big East market and we demand respect or shut this rag paper down now.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:44 pm 
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Lash - the author of that article has written pieces for the ACC area sports journal

********************************
No one is suggesting ND will join for FB - at least recently. Some have suggested (like myself) that ND may join the FB schools in an all sports conference with the same arrangement of 3 FB games and the bowl tieins.

Just so you know that Pitt is the 5th most played opponent on NDs schedule. WVu and SU have only played ND 4 times each - same as Ohio State, PSU 17 times, and Michigan 32 times.

But you are correct, the Big10 has more common opponents than any other conference (Purdue, MSU, NW have all played ND more than 45 times).

I agree that ND is a better 'fit' in the ACC with the 4 private schools - Wake, Duke, BC, and Miami.

ND wanted to 'phase in' to the ACC but the ACC said no thanks.


Last edited by panthersc97 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:33 pm 
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PanterSc97, thanks for the update on that author's background. More reasons the author is in panic state as the new Big East is going to blow the new ACC away in basketball at least for the next five years until a split.

Notre Dame will play each of the 8 BE football schools over a period of time.

Notre Dame can't find a better basketball conference over the new Big East and that includes the ACC which is being replaced by the new Big East as America's premier basketball conference. Its just in the air.

Once the new Big East conference catches on, it may demand its own network and possibly 7 week nights of TV games for basketball. ACC smaller markets will not be able to compete consistently with the new Big East.

Everyone please settle down and the Big East is not going away for football and guys writing the articles in the Washington Times are going to look like the same idiots that wrote about Big East losing BCS membership the first time around.

Notre Dame is in the Big East regardless if everyone says not. The school just plays a partial football schedule.

If a split occurs, I would give Notre Dame 90 per cent chance the school would go with the football schools and continue to play limited football and have access to BE bowl deals.

At this point I give a split a 50/50. If the basketball catches on and demands TV as planned, football may tag along in the process.

All this BE bashers are really jeolous or maybe better put fearful of the new league. I am fearful of this league and am fan so can understand the why everyone is up in arms over this monoster on the horizon.





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:47 pm 
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The sad thing here is that many of us are sports fans who enjoy CBB as well as CFB. Come winter, I am looking forward to watching BE BB, since it looks to be a great conference. (Strange scheduling for '05-06, though, if you haven't checked it out.)

But this is a football discussion, and on that subject the BE is just middling. Clearly behind the 5 power conferences in the eyes of the voters and on the scoreboard and struggling to stay ahead of MWC. I think CUSA is a cut below those two.

What we're exploring here is what the BE (and MWC) can do to strengthen themselves through additions or deletions. It is after all a realignment board. In that respect, the BE has a number of tepid choices. Memphis, ECU, UCF, UMass, Villanova have been mentioned. The MWC may have better opportunities to add currently stronger FB programs in FSU, BSU, Houston or UTEP. If that happens, they move ahead to a solid #6.

It's only important if the BCS stays at 6 teams, as has been mentioned. It's academic at 5 or 7.


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