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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:00 pm 
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Rules of Engagement on this thread and clarity of assumptions:

No BCS topics posted on this thread as everyone can take those comments to the countless "beating a dead horse Big East will lose its BCS bid" to those threads.

No expansion of football or football only schools topics discussed on this thread. The BE has 8 solid football schools that will maintain BCS, Gator/Sun, Houston, Meikie Car, and proposed new Toronto Bowls. Football money is great and no need to expand for football. Everyone can take the football expansion topics to countless "beating a dead horse Big East will split and add football schools" to those threads. Some of those threads and posts were mine and some embarrassing post on BE football schools expanding with some MWC schools as well. Granted it was out of the box and maybe too way out as well.

Subjects welcome are: how many BE teams will make the NCAA basketball Tournament?, is the BE the best basketball conference in the USA?, which BE basketball team or teams has the best chance to make the final four?.

Other subjects such as should the BE split into divisions for basketball and should BE play 16 or 18 conference schedules for mens basketball. This will be the subject to start off for this thread.

The Big East really needs to consider splitting into divisions for basketball. Coming in 16 place is not well very becoming and could and will get the coaches fired.

I have a proposal that is somewhat different than previous post at least I think so.

Keep the schedule at 16 games which every coach likes and can take on some powder puffs as well as some SOS out of conference games against top 20 BCS basketball schools.

Have all 16 schools play each other once and split into divisions and play one rival school in the division to bring to 16.

This is the catch that has not been discussed before. Split the schools by geography and not by football only to avoid that conflicted issue (nothing new here). Splitting by region actually spreads the good teams out more as well and so listed are the current or projected ranks this year. Each school would play all other schools in the other division as well which is the difference and trick that may just work for this monster of a basketball conference. (this idea is new)

East: UConn, Villanova, Syracuse, Georgetown, Rutgers, Providence, St John's, Seton Hall

West: Pitt, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, Notre Dame, Depaul, South Florida

East rival games that make up the final 16 game:
UConn/Providence, Syracuse/Georgetown, Rutgers/Seton Hall, St John's/Villanova

West rival games that make up the 16 game:
Pitt/WVU, Louisville/Cincinnati, Marquette/Depaul, Notre Dame/South Florida

St John's, Villanova, Notre Dame, and South Florida are sort of odd balls and so their cross over game is not as great as the other 6 cross over rival games.

Once the old TV contract is over and Big East can schedule mens games to its preference, the above scenario would add the last little ump to an already best in the nation basketball league.

It has been very exciting following the new Big East this year and anyone who thinks Big East basketball is not going to dominate the TV world just tune in this Saturday as the BE will dominate both CBS and ESPN with national Big East games.

Comments/suggestions on BE divisions for basketball.
How many BE teams will make the NCAA basketball Tournament?
Is the BE the best basketball conference in the USA?, Which BE basketball team or teams has the best chance to make the final four?.

So lets keep this thread basketball friendly and see how the rest of the Big East basketball season folds out and how the BE will stack up come NCAA tournament time.





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:53 pm 
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Is the BE best conference? Nope the ACC and Big Ten are better.

Actually if want the best conference for basketball, I mean pure basketball try the MVC. Its great if you love how college basketball is. Not the fancy dunks, one year wonders, no prima donnas, actual defense and team play.



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:47 pm 
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SportKC, why am I not surprised by your comments. Maybe that is why we do not see you commentaries on any national sports networks. CBS this past week gave the Big East as tops conference with Big 10 close second. CBS know a little about basketball as they have televised the NCAA for many years and show the top teams each week. By the way, are you enjoying the many BE games being showed in your Big 12 area.

You obviously do not vote in the polls which also had seven BE teams ranked in the top 25 with 3 teams clearly ranked in the top 10.

In case your as sleep at the wheel this is basketball thread and not football.

Sorry but bias opinion on this thread just make you look silly.

This year I am getting coming down tough on folks who don't use facts when they post. So if you want to be stupid we can certainty give you those props.

I will comment on the ACC wows in basketball on a latter post. Other than Duke, nothing really stands out in this league and you will sure see come tournament time. The polls are generious in keeping North Carolina and Maryland and even Boston College in when they have all three looked very terible this season.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:27 pm 
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Lets see AP poll:

Big Ten 6
Big East 6
ACC 5

So I stand corrected on the ACC, but the Big Ten is the best conference this year. Big East is #2. Too many patises in the BE, the lower part is not very good.

There is your stats, funny though this is coming from a guy that normally uses no stats and has a clear bias as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:19 pm 
Would any eligible, all-sports, BE team turn down an offer to be the Big 10's #12?

Would Sugar bowl winner West Virginia, have turned down an ACC or SEC offer, yesterday or tomorrow?

What Big East teams would not have accepted an ACC offer?

A bloated 16 team basketball league certainly should have a few ranked. Where's the surprise?

Big East is not #1 or #2 in all-conference statue. #6 for now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:32 pm 
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Dognthings, who cares what the ACC is doing as they are maxed out. They obviously made a big mistake taking BC over WVU and will just have to live with it for the long term. ACC loss is the BE big big gain.

Please stop bringing up the Big 10 number 12. Who cares who the Big 10 takes as its number 12. Until the Big 10 can convince Notre Dame to join they do not get any respect.

SportKC. just really having fun with you guys as its really nice for a change to post for the best conference in the country in the current big college sport that matters at this time.

By the way, Dognthings you broke the rules of engagement on this thread and your post should be purged. Please take you Big 10 post to the Big 10 thread. Thank you!



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:30 pm 
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The BE is good at BB. No argument. Marginally better than the ACC and Big 10 at present. We'll see at the end. As far as football, still a joke.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:33 pm 
Lash, you are troubled. You personalize your posts. You may have very inadequate feelings about yourself to persistently do that. I never mentioned your name or your post in the last one.

This is a about basketball, and your judgmental scolding is misplaced.

I doubt the Big 10 is worried regarding your assessment.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:52 pm 
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Dognthings, I am sorry if you do not like the manner to which I behave on the board. It has much to do with all you who continue to bash the Big East.

On my thread, I make the rules to keep it clean and on the subject matter of BE basketball.

At the same time you and WestWolf come on spewing your venom and looking like idiots calling the Big East football a joke.

The conference just won the BCS Sugar bowl and the ACC just lost the BCS Orange for the 6 year in row for BCS participation.

Yet you never saw me jump on and bash the ACC until ACC poster talk trash and get back what they ask for.

This thread was for BE basketball and how the conference stacks up with the other power conferences.

SportsKC although bias against the Big East did remain to the subject matter.

DogNthings, your the one that us a very troubled soul. Frustrated that East Carolina is stuck in a mid major league and frustrated that Big 10 is stagnated at 11 teams.

Well guess what its not the Big East fault. so you negative comments that have no basketball subject matter are not welcome on this thread.

Your attempt to belittle the Big East and persist teams are ready to jump ship may have been true in the pass and not so much any more.

WVU has proven the BCS merits of BCS BE bid and the basketball is second to none.

You may want to talk with Duke and North Carolina fans that are fed up with the current ACC mess and think the BE is the best conference for basketball.

The world would come to an end if Duke and NC jumped to a better basketball conference and half of the ACC funding stream dried up overnight.

It could happen, however, will not make this statement except for ACC bigots that come onto my thread and bring no value to the subject matter intended for positive conversations.

If you don't like it post on other threads.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:11 pm 
There you go again, Lash. I did not term BE football a joke. You are misquoting again. I am not responsible for Westwolf's point of view. You take any commentary on the BE {basketball included for this thread} and see it as people assaulting a corporation which you own or are the majority stockholder. News for you: even in the Big East conference itself, people have opinions that vary. You know that as closely as you follow developments. Why is the BIG East immune for critical observations while others are not, and what makes you you feel you must act as the self-appointed protector of the BE's status quo? You have posed some radical suggestions yourself regarding the BE; well exceeding what I have.

My views on the BE have remained consistent. I am not an ACC champion either. You know that.

As far as contaminating the purity of your thread, my initial comments were interrelated, inclusive of bb. Granted, not the most direct spot, but you diverged it further with the personalization.

You conveniently forget I have defended you previously against undue personal stuff and improper tactics. You choose to adapt similar, inappropriate tactics when you disagree with others.

I shall respect you viewpoint, and acknowledge and commend your enthusiasm for being a BE fan and sports fan in general. But if someone does not think or see things as you do, the person may not be trying to terminate the BE and destroy its options for fb and bb. And to take their comments to another level, and projecting erroneous judgments and alternative viewpoints, doesn't produce positive outcomes. If everyone shared the same opinions, what's the point of these boards?

Again, pardon the misplaced posting if it is bringing you discomfort.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:35 pm 
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Dognthings, opologies for having you in the same post with Westwolf.

I guess on this board it is impossible to have conversations about Big East even if its related to basketball.

There are just way to many folks who want to see the Big East fail.

There were good reasons a couple of seasons ago and after the ACC raid that gave ground to legitimate grips about Big East football.

Folks on this board ignore the facts. Even the most hard core BE bashing has quited down across the county from ESPN to major newspapers, yet no one on this board can be objective.

If you follow many of the BE boards you will find many fans who really like the new 16 team league. Much more positive than negative. No more negative than fans on ACC boards or Big 12 boards about current alignment.

This thread was to discuss objectively how the Big East 16 team basketball alignment could improve. It did not imply that the conference is bloated or has to small of football or has bad football.

I really don't care what people think anymore about Big East football because WVU proved it on the field that BE football teams can win in the BCS and more will follow in WVU footsteps.

So -

Dognthings, how do you think the BE 16 basketball league can improve alignment wise without a split, without a raid from another conference, and without any expansion teams.

Simple question?





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:25 pm 
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Personally the fb schools are the better bb schools as well. A FB only schools would be very, very good bb conference, I would give rate it number one bb conference, seriousally.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:18 pm 
OK Lash, SportsKC, I shall present here and perhaps, try to keep it on bb as much as possible.


1. When I said the BE was vulnerable to ACC raids and is #6 in the BCS, that is not from a point of distaste for the BE. There is this image after the raid the conference needed to re-group and solidify. I believe the ACC was attractive to individual BE teams due to "all-sports" more than most factors. Geography did play a part as well as money. Geography was the reason I thought the BC move to the ACC was not the best decision. I have siblings and in-laws ACC grads. Me, no ACC.

2. I was very gracious about WVU beating Georgia (I am a GA grad) in the Sugar Bowl. WVU deserved it. I was disappointed in UGA for getting off to poor start; but it did turn into one of the better bowl games. Nothing should be taken away from WVU for being prepared and well coached.

3. Conferences can have sub-par BCS bowl representation; Pitt the year before and FSU (by their record) this year. However, FSU hung with 3rd rank Penn State and I had expected it to be close.

4. As SportsKC noted, the Big East football schools, themselves, have excellent bb teams for the most part. The bb only schools could make a decent conference unto themselves and remain among the respectable conferences. A couple or three of them are riding past glory, but there is always future years.

5. I tend to favor 12-team all sports. That's just me. In that context, only the SEC, B12, ACC, and C-USA are complete with this. So to say I want changes for the BE, it would also mean the B10 and PAC 10. The MAC going to 13 annoys me. I have this mindset of equity and universal structure. I know this is hard to comeby in collegiate sports, but..........

6. While I have suggested schools such as East Carolina to the Big East should there be expansion/split; I recognize there are no ideal choices lingering. Frankly, I would love to see Notre Dame play Big East all-sports or Army and Navy incorporated. OK, fantasy thoughts.

7. OK, basketball. I do see a 16 league in bb a bit too large. I do like to see conference teams play a respectable number of non-conference games, and sort of go round-robin with in conference competition. With only 8 of them engaged, collectively, for fb, it does have a unique structure among the major conferences. We are all familiar with how it came about.
All of the 16 teams in BE basketball have prior credentials. I can't say it is the best bb league, but certainly one of the best, and the one with the greatest number of teams. My impression, in fb and bb, the depth of quality fluctuates some year to year in each major conference. Each major conference has a group of excellent teams each year, and those that are struggling. Again, when leagues vary in size, it is a factor in terms of how things are quantified.
We do need to keep in mind the BE's current bb and fb structures are still relatively new, and to make longterm assessments have its limitations.
For all the endless Villanova thought and theories (don't think they will be playing BE football), I remember them for their surprise bb tournament win years ago. They are looming again. It will be interesting tournament time.

Again, I will try to post in the right spots ;).



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:51 pm 
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DogsNthingys,

I could care less if you keep it on bb. Its Lash that gets crazy if you dont.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:59 pm 
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Ok! we will allow discussions that talk about BE subject in general and not just basketball.

Dognthings, sorry about your loss in the Sugar. This helps us know more about you and why you are or were DogsNCo@cks. Did you attend South Carolina as well?

Ok since I breaking my own rules of engagement, I will say a couple things on Big East football schools future.

First of all agreed and thanks SportsKC for you input.

The football schools would make a very good all sports conference, however, not sure it will ever happen.

Surprising lots of football school fans like playing Villanova, Georgetown, and new comers like Marquette.

There are rumblings about unbalanced schedules including the coach at Syracuse.

I totally agree with him and this will end after the current Big East basketball conference expires.

That was one of the big reasons for creating this thread as I think the 16 schools need to split into divisions and play round robin and one double round robin game for 16 game schedule. If they wanted there could be 3 round robin games and expand the schedule to 18.

I think 18 regular season schedule for the Big East would be good since the conference is so strong top to bottom and out of conference games are less needed than by other power conferences.

I don't ever see the Big 10, Pac 10, and Big East expanding to 12 schools simply because the other 3 power conferences have prove the mess that comes with 12 team conferences.

Starting with the Big 12. The north schools would not look so bad if there were no divisions. This will not change as money has already pushed the conference to the max. Colorado playing in championship game and losing by a zillion points. Should be enough said on 12 team alignments.

But wait -

SEC divisions were originally created to allow Alabama/Auburn an extra game to reach the big bowl and both of those schools have struggled at times since the SEC expanded to 12. Not counting last year's Auburn team that did not make the championship game simply because the team started so low in the preseason rankings and no one predicted them to win the west division. Ditto for no change here as money is already in the bank.

The ACC is in total mess. Many Duke and NC fans that did not want ACC expansion are really frustrated with the current issues the ACC. The championship game did not have a sellout that included home town FSU and usually good traveling Va Tech.

I would not be surprised to see the ACC eventually stop having the championship game for football. Just think what the attendance would have been if both Miami and BC would have made the title game.

Big 10 does not need the championship game money and does not want to break with tradition and play after Thanksgiving.

Pac 10 has lost interest after the big expansion a few years back and see the current mess with 12 team alignments.

It would not surprise me to see the Pac 10 and Big Ten go back to playing Rose Bowl games and drop out of the BCS in a few years. They would make the same amount of money.

Money! Is it worth the hassle of 12 football teams. I think not and many formal Miami coaches will agree. Actually Coker did not want Miami leaving the Big East in the first place.

So -

If the 8 non football schools do not step up in a couple years, there could be a split.

I would not see the football schools taking on any other schools unless Villanova and Notre Dame wanted to play all sports.

It really comes down to why split? Is there any value?

thingy Vitale in yesterday USA Today gave his vote to the Big East as top conference. Thats big since he is usually promoting Duke and the rest of the ACC clan.

Splitting into two 8 team divisions resolve a lot of things.

My current prediction is 8 schools for the NCAA tournament. UConn, Villanova, Pitt, WVU, Syracuse, Louisville, Cincinnati, Georgetown. If another team like Rutgers or Marquette advance far into the Big East tournament then Georgetown or slumping Louisville may not make the cut.

I am not sure there is anything broken with the new Big East other than schedules.

Any 12 or more team conference is bloated? Look the word up if you don't believe me.






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