NCAA Conference Realignment & Expansion Message Boards
NCAA Map

Discussions by Conference:
  It is currently Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:03 am

Help support CollegeSportsInfo.com by shopping

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:50 pm 
Offline
All-Conference
All-Conference

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am
Posts: 556
Location: Dallas
Pulling from footballgod's thread about running the SEC, what would you do if you were given the keys to the conference. Do you keep the staus quo? Are teams evicted? Are teams brought in? What is the logic behind your decisions?

Feel free to question others' decisions, but don't be a wimp --- put your own ideas up first!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:56 pm 
Offline
Freshman
Freshman

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
I pull the trigger on the split and take the 8 football only teams into a new conference. I add 4 teams to move the conference to All Sports. The four teams will now give the new league a North/South division split. The team I add are all from CUSA. East Carolina, UCF, Memphis and Southern Miss.

The League then looks like this:

NORTH
1. West Virginia
2. Rutgers
3. UConn
4. Pitt
5. Syracuse
6. Cincinnatti

SOUTH
1. Louisville
2. South Florida
3. East Carolina
4. Central Florida
5. Memphis
6. Southern Miss

This gives the new league a strong hold in the south and adds teams to help out USF in travel. ECU has a nice fan base and strong support. The football program is improving and the basketball program is in the very fertile state of North Carolina. UCF has the great fortune of location, a rising football program and a huge student body! Memphis is a top 5 basketball program, and is a solid destination for fans. Southern Miss is the long shot, but probably has more football tradition and history than the other three combined. The basketball program is getting back into shape with Larry Eustachey at the helm.

Those are my thoughts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:18 pm 
Offline
Junior
Junior

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:43 pm
Posts: 107
Personally, I would split the basketball schools and then give standing invitations to Stony Brook, (UMass or Villanova), and once they start football, (Virginia Commonwealth or George Mason) and (Georiga State or UNC Charlotte.)

But that's just me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:38 pm 
Offline
Senior
Senior

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:36 am
Posts: 185
Shortshot:
I would reorganize the conference as the Big East Corporation, putting the football participants in the Lambert League (named after the Lambert-Meadowlands trophy, won by several of the members over the years). The non-football participants become the Catholic League, and may adopt a no-Sunday play rule. I would extend all-sports invitations to 8 schools. 4 of which would play in the Lambert League, and the other 4 in the Catholic League.

The Lambert League adds Army, Navy, Marshall, and Temple.
Divisions are
North:
Army
Connecticut
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple

South:
Cincinnati
Louisville
Marshall
Navy
South Florida
West Virginia

Catholic League adds: Dayton, St. Joseph's, St. Louis, and Xavier
Divisions are
East:
Georgetown
Providence
Seton Hall
St. John's
St. Joseph's
Villanova

West:
Dayton
DePaul
Marquette
Notre Dame
Saint Louis
Xavier

Longshot:
Will post later


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:06 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:14 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Phoenix Arizona
I would split the football schools into a new 12 team BCS conference. The 7 basketball schools minus Notre Dame would add Xavier, Dayton, and St Louis for 10 members.

Flagship Division:

UConn
UMass
Rutgers
Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia

Metro Division:

Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
UNC Charlotte (have a time line to start football and move to 1A)
UAB (have a time line to build a new stadium)
South Florida

The longer the Big Ten takes to decide on the 12th member the better chances of Notre Dame going Big Ten.

The Flagship division of this alignment has four state wide flag ship schools and Syracuse is the only BCS school in the state of New York.

The Metro would have a great basketball alignment and TV markets that may help to provide this alignment the ABC regional game which could compete with the SEC CBS game in southern TV markets.

Right now Big East football is much better than the ACC and the Big East should move quickly to capitalize on the competing TV markets that face the CBS SEC game of the week in southern markets. The ACC may not be this down for ever.

Minor bowls just jump out with this alignment with Tampa, Memphis, Charlotte, Birmingham, and and new bowl in the new Giants stadium and the Big East should retain the International bowl. This would provide 7 bowls including the most important BCS automatic bowl.

Adding Charlotte, Memphis and Birmingham TV markets would ease the loss of Philadelphia, Washington DC, and NYC direct TV markets for the football schools. Those markets could remain for the basketball schools which will add St Louis, Dayton, and retain Cincinnati with Xavier and help ease the loss of Pittsburgh, Hartford and Tampa for the basketball only schools.

Notre Dame to the Big Ten would add the same impact for the Big Ten as both Rutgers and Syracuse combined.

Win/Win for all of the current 16 members of the much much too large current Big East alignment.

The BCS would benefit with a new 12 team alignment that does not intrude too far on the current ACC and SEC.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:05 pm 
Offline
All-Conference
All-Conference
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am
Posts: 672
Location: Louisville, KY
I would force Villanova, St. John's, DePaul, and Marquette to upgrade to I-A, thus creating a direct football presence in the Philadelphia, Chicago, Milwaukee, and New York markets.

Central:
Marquette
DePaul
Louisville
Cincinnatti
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Notre Dame (football independent)
Georgetown (FCS football)

Atlantic:
Connecticut
Syracuse
St. John's
Rutgers
Villanova
South Florida
Providence (no football)
Seton Hall (no football)

Notre Dame is allowed to play Big East football only if they can find a suitable 14th school, with the generally accepted understanding that it will be Central Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:48 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1429
Lash, et. al,

I concur there are plausible designs for Big East expansion. Contrary to some media commentaries, the Big East is not so boxed. They do have options, it's just that they have to take some serious actions if the decision is to change things.

I try to look at this realistically. The fundamental questions are: Who WANTS to be in the BIG EAST? Who has the MEANS and are READY for the BIG EAST? And, WHOM do the BIG EAST find acceptable among those willing and able to accept conference membership?

OK, Notre Dame embracing BE fb would be a given. But, they don't want to be in BE fb or any other conference for fb at this time.

Navy and Army? It is plausible they could be generally competitive with the lower tier of current BE fb members. With their recruiting limits, the Service Academies appear best when they can run the ball, i. e., the OPTION and so forth. Being consistently competitive with upper tier BE fb members, particularly on the defensive side, could be quite problematic for the Service Academies. Their bb situations are another factor. I just do not see Army and Navy seeking to constrain themselves with BE scheduling. They have been explored formally as possibilities.

MAC schools? Some have good locations and respectable names and can deliver competitive programs. But they also tend to have comparatively diminished facilities, budgets, and fan support. Drawing one or two out could make a difference. Places like Miami (0), Ohio, and Toledo bring limited features to the table short of the BE buying. Others such as Temple, Buffalo, and Marshall currently have their own baggage/problems per acceptance.

That basically leaves more CUSA-East types. None are perfect, but the question is which ones best meets the preferred criteria? Lash, future bowl sites as you mentioned, could come into play. Memphis, Ala-B., and Central Fla. could be attractive in that regard. Memphis and UAB have bb programs that would formidably compete in BE bb. East Carolina, or even Southern Miss., have solid commitments to fb. ECU is reasonably accessible for traveling fb fans from certain other BE schools. If the BE takes on a greater southern flank, particularly in distant places such as Memphis, then bringing one or two additional ones along for rivalries and continuity seems appropriate. This avenue, having 12 fb schools after a split, could be logistically favorable. The Big East actually has already diluted its "northeast" focus, and finding schools to reinforce a predominant locale is very constrained.

UMASS, Delaware, or others, moving up are nice ideas to balance out a conference. But spending more to upgrade to yield more revenue is tricky business, and more than one program has failed at it, or refused to commit to it.

If a split/expansion occurs in the BE, I expect them to go with the most reliable possibilities. Of course, opinions vary on the weight given to each considered factor.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:40 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:14 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Phoenix Arizona
sec03, there is probably no person more pro Big East than yours truly, however, this new 16 team conference is just not fun to follow. No matter how much the Big East wants to add a positive slant, no one is opening stating they are thrilled with this alignment. All that comes from the Big East officials is they are not going to split. It would be totally different if Big East officials were saying we absolutely love this 16 team alignment and just can live without 16 teams. If any team decide to leave we will simply expand back to 16. We all know this is not the desired size and just something the conference has to live with for now.

When the SEC, Big 12 and ACC expanded to 12 it was a major stretch and created a lot of unnecessary issues with schedules. Major yearly rivalries were broken up in football and some double round robin rivalries were eliminated all together in basketball.

The point is that 12 member conferences are not entirely too large to follow from top to bottom. By having two divisions in basketball, the SEC basketball side really works OK. We can understand why the ACC and Big 12 do not want this for basketball as the regions are not as balanced regionally in all sports as your get with the SEC regions.

Each time the Big East tries to work around the size issue, other type of issues come to the surface. For example this year with 18 conference games, the Big East may be hurt again with the number of NCAA basketball bids. It was hit last year with only 16 conference games. I don't care what the NCAA says in public, they are not going to provide one conference more bids on a regular basis over the other top five BCS conferences.

I think it just a matter of time before the 8 football schools split. It really makes sense to go directly to 12 when they do. The only reason to expand to 12 is the NCAA mandatory requirement for football. Other than the NCAA making this an uncessary requirment, I actually hate 12 team alignments as well.

The SEC was far more exiciting to follow when there were only 10 schools. This was before there were 12 regular season games and some schools did not play each year in football. Just think what the old SEC would be if all 10 schools played each other (i.e. Pac 10 football schedules).

South Florida has provided the value of taking a large city school in the south over a more traditional team in the mid west or directional school from the south. It just more easy to travel and South Florida filled the Tampa Bay area pro stadium for a couple football games. The TV market size of Tampa was a major plus.

Memphis and UAB with upgraded football facilities would make similar type expansion candidates. Both were at one time in the same conference for the same reasons as South Florida.

UNC Charlotte is very intriguing if the school could upgrade to 1A football. The location is very central to both potential north and south division schools. The city already has a pro stadium and basketball interest in this city is exceptional. The fact there is a bowl game that could take the Big East as a host team is an added plus.

If UNC Charlotte is not able to upgrade, then Central Florida could join my proposed alignment.

I really like the Flagship and Metro division alignment in the previous post which only has one school per state. One Florida school may be all that is needed unless there is just no other valid candidates for expansion.

It just a matter of time before everyone in the Big East realizes that having some many basketball games on TV does not replace a good alignment that is easy to follow for the fan base. Just being on TV does not help the interest of the fans with the conference is so fragmented from top to bottom. More TV games may expose these issue more than help in the long rung.

If having 12 schools is really too many in one conference and to the day do not understand the rationale of the NCAA making this a requirement for football championship games, 16 is just way over the top.





Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:02 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:14 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Maybe a compromise for the Big East commissioner that may provide some value to having 16 teams would be to consider the following:

Since we know the conference will take all 16 members to NYC for basketball and the conference will play an 18 game regular season schedule, maybe the only sensible thing we organized fans can hope for is a true split into 8 team divisions split by BCS schools and the other division by the Catholic schools.

I am adding the schools by the current ranking as of today 1/31/2008.

Current ranking by 16 member in huge blob:

1 Georgetown
2 Notre Dame
3 Pitt
4 Marquette
5 Connecticut
6 Louisville
7 Seton Hall
8 Syracuse
9 Cincinnati
10 West Virginia
11 DePaul
12 Providence
13 Villanova
14 Rutgers
15 South Florida
16 St John's

If the schools were split into two divisions by BCS and Catholic

Catholic Division

1 Georgetown
2 Notre Dame
3 Marquette
4 Seton Hall
5 DePaul
6 Providence
7 Villanova
8 St John's

BCS Division

1 Pitt
2 Connecticut
3 Louisville
4 Syracuse
5 Cincinnati
6 West Virginia
7 Rutgers
8 South Florida

First major benefit is South Florida and St John's are in 8 place in each division and not 15 and 16 place in the current blob.

Next benefit would be double round robin games with each division team and leaving four cross over games for i.e. GT/Syr creating much better rivalries.

If the NCAA were looking today at selecting teams would they pick the 8 top teams in the blob:

1 Georgetown
2 Notre Dame
3 Pitt
4 Marquette
5 Connecticut
6 Louisville
7 Seton Hall
8 Syracuse

While no guarantee the NCAA would select the 8 top teams listed above in the blob, the NCAA may look more favorable at the top four of each division listed below:

from Catholic division projected bids:

1 Georgetown
2 Notre Dame
3 Marquette
4 Seton Hall

from BCS division projected bids:

1 Pitt
2 Connecticut
3 Louisville
4 Syracuse

If you look closely at the above two case scenarios , it the very same teams. It just appears to look better for the NCAA to take 1 through 4 of each division over 1 through 8 of the blob.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:48 pm 
Offline
Senior
Senior

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:53 pm
Posts: 316
Yes, this was my thought too...
Flagship Division:

UConn
UMass
Rutgers
Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia

Metro Division:

Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
UNC Charlotte (have a time line to start football and move to 1A)
UAB (have a time line to build a new stadium)
South Florida


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:14 pm 
Online
CollegeSportsInfo Admin
CollegeSportsInfo Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am
Posts: 3802
I've thrown around some ideas about the Big East from time to time...

A few KEY points:
1) If the basketball-only schools were to leave or boot the football schools, it should not be anyones assumption that a new conference would be 12 teams. The 8 BE basketball schools might consider reclaiming the Cincy market with Xavier, and might consider another midwest school for Depaul & Marquette by bringing in St. Louis. But an expansion to 12 teams might be a stretch. Why? It's basketball. A 9 team league makes it easier to schedule. It means 18 conference games per year, with each team getting a home-and-home. At 10 teams, it does mean adding a new market and 20 conference games.


As for the football side...

The conference championship game might not be worth diluting the conference. At 8 teams, there is some concern for a defection. But at 9 or 10 teams, there is some ease. Memphis and their basketball program could be enough of a draw to bring them in for all sports. UCF would be gladly included by USF. A long shot 10 years from now could be Charlotte.


_________________
Image

Image@ncaasports Image csi.com/facebook

Image
Like the new CSI Userbar? Feel free to use it here and any other forums.
You can save and host it yourself or link from here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:03 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:14 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Quinn, you have always made good points on size of conferences based on revenue potential. I agree that 9 is best for basketball and football.

There is one thing that bind the two groups of schools and that is brand name. There are two brand names associated that are very important to both sides, the Big East name and the BCS.

The football schools do not want to give up the brand name of the Big East.

If there is one thing the BCS can state that the NCAA can't and that is determine a line between the big boys and the mid majors.

The basketball schools would not want to lose BCS status regardless that Notre Dame is the only football program currently in the NCAA designated Bowl division and does not play Big East football.

The Bowl Division of the NCAA does nothing to help determine the big schools from the mid majors in football. concerning basketball, the NCAA almost has every school in the country in division 1.

The Big East will probably not make any moves with expansion unless they have to.

It would be interesting to see what direction the Big East takes if the Big Ten some how is able to land Notre Dame as the 12th member.

I think Memphis would make a compromise member of both groups to replace Notre Dame.

The football schools would get the 9th member for 8 balanced home games and the basketball schools would get another basketball first school and a market in the mid west or mid south.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:03 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:22 am
Posts: 1030

Quote:
I've thrown around some ideas about the Big East from time to time...

A few KEY points:
1) If the basketball-only schools were to leave or boot the football schools, it should not be anyones assumption that a new conference would be 12 teams. The 8 BE basketball schools might consider reclaiming the Cincy market with Xavier, and might consider another midwest school for Depaul & Marquette by bringing in St. Louis. But an expansion to 12 teams might be a stretch. Why? It's basketball. A 9 team league makes it easier to schedule. It means 18 conference games per year, with each team getting a home-and-home. At 10 teams, it does mean adding a new market and 20 conference games.


A 9 team BB league means 16 conference games and a 10 team league means 18 conference games. The Pac 10 already plays 18 basketball games. The candidates would be Xavier, Dayton, UMass, and St Louis (I am sure I'm forgetting someone though).


Last edited by panthersc97 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:07 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:22 am
Posts: 1030
I am in the camp that the BE should NOT goto 12 - of course unless those 4 teams are from a current BCS conference (extremely unlikely to happen). The maximum would be 10 and should only be considered at this moment out of Memphis, ECU, and UCF.


Last edited by panthersc97 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:29 pm 
Offline
Junior
Junior

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 109

Quote:
I've thrown around some ideas about the Big East from time to time...

A few KEY points:
1) If the basketball-only schools were to leave or boot the football schools, it should not be anyones assumption that a new conference would be 12 teams. The 8 BE basketball schools might consider reclaiming the Cincy market with Xavier, and might consider another midwest school for Depaul & Marquette by bringing in St. Louis. But an expansion to 12 teams might be a stretch. Why? It's basketball. A 9 team league makes it easier to schedule. It means 18 conference games per year, with each team getting a home-and-home. At 10 teams, it does mean adding a new market and 20 conference games.


I understand that 9 might make the most sense from a scheduling point of view, but the reality is that most bb conferences are between 10-12 members. The only ones left at 9 are the Mountain West, WAC, Big West, and America East. And the first two are non-auto-bid BCS conferences and remnants of what was once briefly a 16-team conference.

I also wouldn't be too concerned about the bb schools leaving under their own volition or kicking the football schools out. I am not even sure they have true solidarity enough to stick together should the fb schools ask between one and four of them to remain in a smaller version of the current hybrid (and this isn't to say it will happen, rather only if on the chance it did happen).

I think the whole situation between the Big East, A-10, and CAA is going to unravel in the next decade changing all three conferences.



Quote:
As for the football side...

The conference championship game might not be worth diluting the conference. At 8 teams, there is some concern for a defection. But at 9 or 10 teams, there is some ease. Memphis and their basketball program could be enough of a draw to bring them in for all sports. UCF would be gladly included by USF. A long shot 10 years from now could be Charlotte.



I think if there is going to be expansion for the Big East football schools, it is likely to be to 10 teams. I highly doubt UCF would be welcomed by USF, but they just might have to live with it if the other football schools believe it is necessary to have a Florida trip each and every year in terms of football recruiting.

Still having USF as a member has not been as big a boon for Big East schools' Florida recruiting as was having Miami. This may change over time though.

Cheers,
Neil


Last edited by omnicarrier on Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
 

 

cron




Looking for College Sports apparel? Support our partner:








Support Our Partners: Search Engine Marketing - Search Engine Optimization - Search Engine Training - Online Marketing for Restuarants

Subway Map Shirts - Food and Travel

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group