WAC General Realignment Thread

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

Thanks for your clarification to update your previous post, FSA. Lets all remember that there are lots of other sports as well at stake. So those Texas St non-revenue sports bus trips to the 5 nearby Sunbelt schools for all your sports does save money. In the end it's about overall revenue. As the MWC TV contract is very low, especially given the quality of the members compared to the departing ones, it's not the potential homerun conference move it was recently. The biggest point to consider is that when we're looking at Texas St as the lone "Texas" option for the MWC and NMSU as the big competition for a final spot, we're talking a huge change in the quality of the conference options. A year ago, North Texas would be a lock to accept a MWC invite. Now? gotta think they'd pass. MWC best bet seems to hope for a BE football implosion and welcome Boise St and SDSU back with open arms.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:52 pm

Quinn wrote:

Thanks for your clarification to update your previous post, FSA. Lets all remember that there are lots of other sports as well at stake. So those Texas St non-revenue sports bus trips to the 5 nearby Sunbelt schools for all your sports does save money. In the end it's about overall revenue. As the MWC TV contract is very low, especially given the quality of the members compared to the departing ones, it's not the potential homerun conference move it was recently. The biggest point to consider is that when we're looking at Texas St as the lone "Texas" option for the MWC and NMSU as the big competition for a final spot, we're talking a huge change in the quality of the conference options. A year ago, North Texas would be a lock to accept a MWC invite. Now? gotta think they'd pass. MWC best bet seems to hope for a BE football implosion and welcome Boise St and SDSU back with open arms.

5 near by schools? 1 "near" by school is UTA. Where do you get 5? Don't just say things w/o any actual info about how many trips they bus. If they bus 5 SBC schools they can bus to UNM, CSU, Wyo

. Yet FIU, ODU, Charlotte chose to travel all of their non rev sports as far as El Paso instead of the more confined SBC, you leave that out because it kills your pointless point :mrgreen:

of non rev driving the bus. MWC makes 1.16 in tv rev per school, nbc and cbs coll.(I think, maybe just nbc and fsn) plus fox sports bay/ whatever the local fsn is, and trying to get a new deal soon. SBC gets? SBC gets 2 bowls. MWC 4 or 5? NCAA bball money for MWC a lot better than SBC. The same sh*t was said about the WAC when the schools left for the MWC, how would they ever recover, then Boise St. and Hawaii went to BCS games and Nevada was good year after year. USU has started to show up now. SJSU, Fresno(we are good most of the time) beat down their "big" ass sucking brother, SDSU.

UNT would pass because they're in CUSA, don't claim you'd know what UNT would do if they were left out of CUSA, they'd be butt hurt first and foremost that CUSA added FCS move up as part of a 6 school expansion where they weren't good enough. If MWC came in and offered them and maybe Texas St. a spot I think they'd accept. If there's one thing we know for a fact is that you don't have a beat on realignment involving Tx schools. Ask Texas A&M

I kid I kid, I got that wrong too, I blame your influence, getting me on board w/ that

How is the BE going to bust up(I wish)? It would have to be a deal under 6 mill per fb school to get the 2 westerners to come back, they could stay at 4 ro 5 mill per year if they wanted. Who else is gonna leave, Louisville 1 day maybe? Would Louisville be the deal breaker for BSU and SDSU? I don't think so.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

FSA, you have access to Google Maps as much as the next guy. Are you saying that Texas St. will be flying ALL it's sports teams to all their Sun Belt opponent locations beyond UTA? If that's the case, please share. Because Men's soccer has a $4000 operating budget for 2013, Softball $12000, Volleyball $6500, Baseball $75000, even Women's basketball is only $42000. The standard athletics fee will cover a good amount of costs. But I know that a school like UMass will fly it's teams for further markets, but will bus for closer opponents. The point I was making was simply that in the Sun Belt, the school at least has the option for it's non-revenue sports to bus even 9 hours for 4 opponents...especially given the game and travel scheduling where 2 nearby opponents will be scheduled for the same trip. To say that bus trips for non-revenue sports do not even have the opportunity to happen would be failed logic. Maybe they aren't likely in your mind, but they are indeed possible.

As for North Texas, you don't need to look at any opinions on the matter of their interest. Feel free to use the search function or browse the MWC thread and you will find mentions and URLs of Rick Villarreal (and perhaps even V. Lane Rawlins) mentioning that North Texas was not interested in the MWC. If you opt to speculate that it was all spin by North Texas to get a better deal from the MWC and instead they had to settle for CUSA, so be it, it might have been the case. As we know, we can't always take what ADs and presidents say as gospel.

And as I pointed out as well, in the end, it's all about revenue production. If the MWC can maintain the revenue deal they have...which only has 2-3 conferences lower at this point with differences in the mear 100,000's of thousands in per-school payouts, then maybe they have some more options. But nobody can claim that the MWC, a conference that was on the cusp of a bCS bid, is the same conference now that it was in the recent past. They have lost all their former BCS at-large schools in Boise St. TCU and Utah. They also lost SDSU, which indeed arguably peaked under Brady Hoke. They did gain Hawaii which had an impressive run under then coach June Jones and the hope is that they return. But the reality is that they replaced Utah, TCU, Boise St. and BYU with SJSU, Utah St., Fresno St. and Nevada. It's a solid conference with a great grasp in it's regional footprint. But it's not the conference it was just a year ago. And with that drop in stature, the gap has been closed between the MWC and the lower conferences of CUSA, Sun Belt and the MAC.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

As for the Big East and using the phrase, "bust up", my apologies. I thought it was self explanatory since there have been numerous posts on the forum about seeing how things play out with the Big East over the next few years for Boise St. and SDSU as football only members. With the Big East concessions to the Big West, it does seem that BSU and SDSU are pretty locked into the Big East now. But there are fans and likely even school/conference admins that are holding out hope that oen day, things change and those schools return to the MWC.

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

The big thing here is the MWC's options are limited. It seems like a safe bet to assume no C-USA school (including UTEP) will be willing to move. If the MWC loses AFA, there really are only four options, Texas State, NMSU, Hawaii, and for the sake of argument, Idaho.

When we're talking about Texas State we're talking about the 12th team in Texas. Now I know football is big there, but this team is going to be pretty low on the radar and they're about halfway between UT and UTSA. I understand wanting to get back into Texas, but if that was what the MWC wanted, I would think they would have did it back when they had a leg up on the other conferences (I know FSA wasn't a fan but I was saying MWC should have raided C-USA or vice versa, now you see why).

NMSU and Idaho suck. It's a fact. No one wants them. But NMSU at least brings a few decent sports. I would imagine that UNM would like to block them though and be the premiere school in the state. Idaho is simply useless.

Hawaii is your best option purely from an athletic point of view. And from a media standpoint probably the best option yet because in Hawaii, if you want to watch sports they are your only option. In a perfect world Hawaii would be off the coast of California and there would be no issue. But the distance was a factor and probably still is.

My personal thinking is that the MWC has no real need to expand even if AFA leaves. There will be 8 full members and 9 football members. If you bring a school on board, you run the risk of one day having the Big East implode and then not having room for the western BE schools.

If you want Texas schools, wait a couple years and see what happens with the Big East. I think there is still a good chance that Houston, SMU, SDSU, Boise, and AFA will eventually be leaving and the MWC is going to be the conference that has room for them. And if the Big East is successful, then you can get Texas State or NMSU or some other FCS upgrade(s).

dbackjon · **Joined:** Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 267

What distance do you consider bus-trip distance?

fighting muskie · **Joined:** Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:47 am **Posts:** 380

Regarding Texas St's travel in the Sunbelt for non-revenue sports: UT-Arlington, UL-Lafayette, UL-Monroe, Arkansas St, and UA-Little Rock are all bus trips. They can play both Arkansas schools in the same bus trip and then play both Louisiana schools in a second bus trip. That gives them probably 3 flights to play Sunbelt East schools as the other 3 Sunbelt East schools will be traveling to play in San Marcos. And perhaps two of those flights can be combined in one weekend (i.e. fly into Nashville and take a short bus trip to Middle Tennessee on Thursday then take another bus up to Western Kentucky for a Saturday game and then drive back to Nashville for the return flight., the same could be done with the Alabama schools)

That means that for a sport like basketball their total travel schedule for the conference slate is a bus trip to Arlington, a weekend bus trip to Louisiana, a weekend bus trip to Arkansas, a weekend flight coupled with a short bus trip to either TN/KY or Alabama, and then another flight to either Miami or Atlanta.

That is an incredibly easy travel schedule compared to all of the flights they would have to make as MWC members.

dbackjon · **Joined:** Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 267

fighting muskie wrote:

Regarding Texas St's travel in the Sunbelt for non-revenue sports: UT-Arlington, UL-Lafayette, UL-Monroe, Arkansas St, and UA-Little Rock are all bus trips. They can play both Arkansas schools in the same bus trip and then play both Louisiana schools in a second bus trip. That gives them probably 3 flights to play Sunbelt East schools as the other 3 Sunbelt East schools will be traveling to play in San Marcos. And perhaps two of those flights can be combined in one weekend (i.e. fly into Nashville and take a short bus trip to Middle Tennessee on Thursday then take another bus up to Western Kentucky for a Saturday game and then drive back to Nashville for the return flight., the same could be done with the Alabama schools)

That means that for a sport like basketball their total travel schedule for the conference slate is a bus trip to Arlington, a weekend bus trip to Louisiana, a weekend bus trip to Arkansas, a weekend flight coupled with a short bus trip to either TN/KY or Alabama, and then another flight to either Miami or Atlanta.

That is an incredibly easy travel schedule compared to all of the flights they would have to make as MWC members.

WKU/MTSU and Troy/USA are good travel partner destination.

Jonesboro is 11 hours by bus, if not more from San Marcos. Little Rock is almost 10. Not a bus trip.

Monroe is almost 9 hours by bus. Lafayette 7 hours. Long trip.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:54 pm

Quinn wrote:

FSA, you have access to Google Maps as much as the next guy. Are you saying that Texas St. will be flying ALL it's sports teams to all their Sun Belt opponent locations beyond UTA? If that's the case, please share. Because Men's soccer has a $4000 operating budget for 2013, Softball $12000, Volleyball $6500, Baseball $75000, even Women's basketball is only $42000. The standard athletics fee will cover a good amount of costs. But I know that a school like UMass will fly it's teams for further markets, but will bus for closer opponents. The point I was making was simply that in the Sun Belt, the school at least has the option for it's non-revenue sports to bus even 9 hours for 4 opponents...especially given the game and travel scheduling where 2 nearby opponents will be scheduled for the same trip. To say that bus trips for non-revenue sports do not even have the opportunity to happen would be failed logic. Maybe they aren't likely in your mind, but they are indeed possible.

As for North Texas, you don't need to look at any opinions on the matter of their interest. Feel free to use the search function or browse the MWC thread and you will find mentions and URLs of Rick Villarreal (and perhaps even V. Lane Rawlins) mentioning that North Texas was not interested in the MWC. If you opt to speculate that it was all spin by North Texas to get a better deal from the MWC and instead they had to settle for CUSA, so be it, it might have been the case. As we know, we can't always take what ADs and presidents say as gospel.

And as I pointed out as well, in the end, it's all about revenue production. If the MWC can maintain the revenue deal they have...which only has 2-3 conferences lower at this point with differences in the mear 100,000's of thousands in per-school payouts, then maybe they have some more options. But nobody can claim that the MWC, a conference that was on the cusp of a bCS bid, is the same conference now that it was in the recent past. They have lost all their former BCS at-large schools in Boise St. TCU and Utah. They also lost SDSU, which indeed arguably peaked under Brady Hoke. They did gain Hawaii which had an impressive run under then coach June Jones and the hope is that they return. But the reality is that they replaced Utah, TCU, Boise St. and BYU with SJSU, Utah St., Fresno St. and Nevada. It's a solid conference with a great grasp in it's regional footprint. But it's not the conference it was just a year ago. And with that drop in stature, the gap has been closed between the MWC and the lower conferences of CUSA, Sun Belt and the MAC.

WTF are you talking about w/ UNT. I wouldn't have interest in the MWC either if CUSA where I'm right in the middle of the footprint wanted me. CUSA=MWC>SBC. DO you just keep trying to change things off the topic of Texas St. being the top option for the MWC if AFA leave according to me and Craig Thompson, where both of us think they'd join. You and UNT, UMass yada yada has nothing to do w/ anything
. Plus you are assuming that UNT and Texas St. are the same school. So then SDSU and Fresno must be the same or us and UCLA. You asked what they'd do if left out of CUSA, I say they'd join us over a raided SBC, that could be raided further if CUSA goes to 16. But the whole argument you bring up is moot, because they're in CUSA

I said Texas St. could bus to 2 fb games ULL, ULM. For other sports 3. If you wanna keep them on the bus for days then you could make the case for all 12. I'm saying that wouldn't stop them from joining the MWC if offered. Hell even the lower level conf. like CAA and A10 have stretched much further than anyone imagined 20 years ago. Even the Summit and A-Sun. You sure go a long way to try and make what is probably an invalid point. You guys act like an airplane is this scary new idea that has no place in college sports. If it was all about bus trips and saving costs we would have NAIA tight knit regional set ups.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:07 pm

SJSUFan2010 wrote:

The big thing here is the MWC's options are limited. It seems like a safe bet to assume no C-USA school (including UTEP) will be willing to move. If the MWC loses AFA, there really are only four options, Texas State, NMSU, Hawaii, and for the sake of argument, Idaho.

When we're talking about Texas State we're talking about the 12th team in Texas. Now I know football is big there, but this team is going to be pretty low on the radar and they're about halfway between UT and UTSA. I understand wanting to get back into Texas, but if that was what the MWC wanted, I would think they would have did it back when they had a leg up on the other conferences (I know FSA wasn't a fan but I was saying MWC should have raided C-USA or vice versa, now you see why).

NMSU and Idaho suck. It's a fact. No one wants them. But NMSU at least brings a few decent sports. I would imagine that UNM would like to block them though and be the premiere school in the state. Idaho is simply useless.

Hawaii is your best option purely from an athletic point of view. And from a media standpoint probably the best option yet because in Hawaii, if you want to watch sports they are your only option. In a perfect world Hawaii would be off the coast of California and there would be no issue. But the distance was a factor and probably still is.

My personal thinking is that the MWC has no real need to expand even if AFA leaves. There will be 8 full members and 9 football members. If you bring a school on board, you run the risk of one day having the Big East implode and then not having room for the western BE schools.

If you want Texas schools, wait a couple years and see what happens with the Big East. I think there is still a good chance that Houston, SMU, SDSU, Boise, and AFA will eventually be leaving and the MWC is going to be the conference that has room for them. And if the Big East is successful, then you can get Texas State or NMSU or some other FCS upgrade(s).

Only reason I didn't agree is I was hoping we'd merge, but hell ya I'm with you on we shoulda raided for UTEP, UTSA, Tulsa

There is no worry about not having enough room if we went back to 9/10 if AFA left. Say AFA, SDSU, BSU all came back in 5 years. We take them for 13 and offer UTEP 14 if UTEP says no ask other Tx CUSA schools if all say no then we take NMSU. I think having BSU back might get UTEP to change.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:10 pm

dbackjon wrote:

fighting muskie wrote:

Regarding Texas St's travel in the Sunbelt for non-revenue sports: UT-Arlington, UL-Lafayette, UL-Monroe, Arkansas St, and UA-Little Rock are all bus trips. They can play both Arkansas schools in the same bus trip and then play both Louisiana schools in a second bus trip. That gives them probably 3 flights to play Sunbelt East schools as the other 3 Sunbelt East schools will be traveling to play in San Marcos. And perhaps two of those flights can be combined in one weekend (i.e. fly into Nashville and take a short bus trip to Middle Tennessee on Thursday then take another bus up to Western Kentucky for a Saturday game and then drive back to Nashville for the return flight., the same could be done with the Alabama schools)

That means that for a sport like basketball their total travel schedule for the conference slate is a bus trip to Arlington, a weekend bus trip to Louisiana, a weekend bus trip to Arkansas, a weekend flight coupled with a short bus trip to either TN/KY or Alabama, and then another flight to either Miami or Atlanta.

That is an incredibly easy travel schedule compared to all of the flights they would have to make as MWC members.

WKU/MTSU and Troy/USA are good travel partner destination.

Jonesboro is 11 hours by bus, if not more from San Marcos. Little Rock is almost 10. Not a bus trip.

Monroe is almost 9 hours by bus. Lafayette 7 hours. Long trip.

Northeastern and Georgia St. were in the same conf. NDSU and Oakland, NKU and FGCU, Sac St. and UND, St.Louis and URI. All have less money than the MWC. This talk of they won't go b/c they can't take a bus to 5 :roll:

games is just nonsense.

86mets · **Joined:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:22 pm **Posts:** 58

Idaho back to Big Sky all but official according to Brian Murphy:

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/1 ... sports_big

The mystery here is the 2 recent adds by the WAC and if the Oly conference makeover is in full swing, then does Hurd have a handful of replacements up his sleeve and will the WAC extend invites?

fighting muskie · **Joined:** Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:47 am **Posts:** 380

This really makes me wonder what the dynamic between Idaho and New Mexico St. I thought they were looking out for each other but the Vandals really threw the Aggies under the bus by walking out on what is left of the WAC. I wonder if this means that the Big Sky has zero interest in the Aggies and it truly is MWC or bust? (not that I think that an invitation will ever be forthcoming)

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7048

Release from official Big Sky Conference site(previously posted in another thread)announcing that as expected Idaho will join that league for non-FB sports starting in 2014.Link at http://bigskyconf.com/news/2012/10/19/G ... 20821.aspx

joshadam84 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:37 pm **Posts:** 3

Anyone seen anything recent regarding the WAC's next move? The only logical thing would be to invite UTPA and Chicago St to ensure their automatic bid continues. On top of inviting these two, they could plan for the future and invite some D2 schools that are wanting to move up. I guess I don't get the hold up. They're pretty much out of options unless it plans to lose its auto bid.

WAC General Realignment Thread

Who is online