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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:16 am 
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It seems that everyone agrees that UMKC is NOT competitive in DI.
UMKC also dumped the Summit to join up with a conference that 'should' have been much easier...and still hasn't performed well...while spending more money in the process.
UMKC is even going as far as considering leaving DI for budgetary reasons.

All those items make UMKC a risky choice. Just because the Summit knows UMKC....doesn't add any less risk to re-adding them. UMKC is a very weak, monetarily challenged, and a pretty risky option.

If the Summit is trying to raise their profile...adding UMKC won't render good results. Location alone just isn't enough upside to bring them back.

There are plenty of schools in the zones where the Summit could use exposure. Even the DII schools, assuming they want to and have the wherewithal to move up, would give the Summit much more upside.

A few schools(DI and DII) I would look at: Bellarmine, Lipscomb, Lindenwood, Mankato State, SIU Edwardsville, Little Rock, UTA, UTRGV, Dallas Baptist, NW Missouri St, Southern Indiana, UArkansas Fort Smith or other Missouri schools.

If the Summit were to add a number of these schools....assuming Fort Wayne is really leaving...could really cover some unserviced territory for the conference.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:54 am 
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Agree that UMKC would not "raise the profile" of the Summit.
They are just a D-1 school in the very center of the Summit's foot-print.
And UMKC could very well decide that their level of commitment to athletics really only supports them playing in D-2.

If there are some potential D-2 move-ups out there, Summit should be initiating contacts NOW (maybe they have...)

As for SIUe, Bellarmine, and Lipscomb, I don't see them interested in a league where half the schools are in the Dakotas.
That travel would just be brutal, and NOBODY would be going to away games and few would be coming down to visiting schools to watch events.
Minnesota, Arkansas, Colorado.... yeah, that makes sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:19 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
As for SIUe, Bellarmine, and Lipscomb, I don't see them interested in a league where half the schools are in the Dakotas.
That travel would just be brutal, and NOBODY would be going to away games and few would be coming down to visiting schools to watch events.
Minnesota, Arkansas, Colorado.... yeah, that makes sense.


My point was....to add more than one of the potential schools. ie: SIUe, Lindenwood, Bellarmine. or, Lipscomb, SIUe and Little Rock. Something like that. Where you would get a group of schools to offset the N. Dakota schools. The S. Dakota schools aren't that far from St. Louis or the rest of the group.

Don't forget....Oral Roberts isn't close to N. Dakota. And Denver isn't close to W. Illinois. Still, the conference is making a go of it.

NW Mo St....is in the heart of the conference.
SIUe would get a in-state rival.
Lindenwood is close to SIUe and is in the StLouis metro area.
Ark FS and Ark LR are close to Oral Roberts.
Bellarmine is close to SIUe or S. Indiana.
Lipscomb isn't far from Bellarmine, S. Indiana or the Ark schools and Oral Roberts.

There are options for the Summit that could be combined together to create a more southern center of the conference.

As far as Denver goes....I doubt they want another Colorado school...and unfortunately, there aren't many options between DU and the I-29 schools. So, I don't see much happening in that direction.

There have also been people mentioning UVU, GCU or NMSU. Those schools are much, much further away than Lipscomb, SIUe, S. Indiana and others.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:25 pm 
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What about U of Central Missouri? They are right in the conference's footprint. Could the league somehow pursuade Mo State?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:28 pm 
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UVU, GCU, and NMSU are being discussed as contingency plans, nobody seriously thinks they’ll get an invite if the Summit is able to stabilize their membership. Denver was a stretch for the Summit but they have great athletic programs (I think they were top 10 in the Cap1 cup) and raise the profile of the entire conference, there isn’t another school out there that Summit could realistically add that could replicate what they got by adding Denver.

I could see the Summit expanding to the DFW area (only an hour or so extra flight time from ORU) but in no universe do they add UTRGV without losing 50% of their membership and getting into a WAC type membership crunch.

Also, why would UTA, and UALR leave the SunBelt for the Dakotas conference? Less money, more travel, I just don’t get it. I mean it could happen, and did with ORU, but that move along with UMKC are the two oddest conference changes I can remember in recent memory.

UMKC is in a large market in the middle of the footprint, has no move up timeline, has familiarity with the other members and above all else they want to join the conference. No reason to turn them down in hopes that you can convince a DII school that the grass is greener.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:11 am 
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TKthunder wrote:
UVU, GCU, and NMSU are being discussed as contingency plans, nobody seriously thinks they’ll get an invite if the Summit is able to stabilize their membership. Denver was a stretch for the Summit but they have great athletic programs (I think they were top 10 in the Cap1 cup) and raise the profile of the entire conference, there isn’t another school out there that Summit could realistically add that could replicate what they got by adding Denver.

I could see the Summit expanding to the DFW area (only an hour or so extra flight time from ORU) but in no universe do they add UTRGV without losing 50% of their membership and getting into a WAC type membership crunch.

Also, why would UTA, and UALR leave the SunBelt for the Dakotas conference? Less money, more travel, I just don’t get it. I mean it could happen, and did with ORU, but that move along with UMKC are the two oddest conference changes I can remember in recent memory.

UMKC is in a large market in the middle of the footprint, has no move up timeline, has familiarity with the other members and above all else they want to join the conference. No reason to turn them down in hopes that you can convince a DII school that the grass is greener.


Denver: Yeah, I understand about Denver...and have no problem with any conference trying to acquire their services. Very high quality school and athletic program. I don't think I suggested otherwise. I feel that DU may be picky about who gets invited....especially, if that schools is in Colorado. Also, IIRC...DU was friendly with ORU...and helped them get back into the Summit. I would think that DU and ORU are interested in other high quality educational schools being added....schools like UTA and UALR. Whether it happens or not....I couldn't tell you. It depends on how motivated DU and ORU are in pushing the Summit in their preferred direction.

The Universe that one of my suggestions could be added: UTRGV ''could'' make a good addition....if the Summit had a long term goal of making divisions and reducing travel. For example....get to 14 schools and split into divisions. Adding 5 schools such as...and here is where UTA and Little Rock may change their minds: UTRGV, Dallas Baptist, UTA, UA LR, ORU, Denver, NMSU on one side....and the remaining schools on the other. That would reduce travel and create a decent mix of programs and states. It's just a theory or possibility...not a requirement. If the numbers don't work out for those schools....no big deal. There are other opportunities or ideas to pursue.

UMKC: By themselves they aren't a real big winner for the Summit. Location is the only perk they offer. In conjunction with other schools...they may help deliver more than just a live body.

As for Davis' thought on C. Missouri....they could be a good addition. Fb could be an issue, like it would be for any school added....you have to get the MVFC to approve to make it work. Or, try and get them in some other conference as fb only.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:07 pm 
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If the last 5 years is any indication, the Summit Conference seems to do their work quietly behind the scenes,
and we don't hear what's going on before an announcement is made that an invitation has been issued and accepted (done deal !).

So I would assume there is an expansion committee that is mulling over many of these options, and one day within the next year,
we'll have an announcement of who will be added.

They need to do something. And I'm sure they are aware of it.

Under Douple, the transformation of the Summit has been remarkable.

When they were the Mid-Continent Conference (Mid-Con), they were a far-flung basket case of D-1 wannabes.
It was the worst conference in D-1 and the membership could only be categorized as "Miscellaneous".

They've since shed a few "problem children" (Centenary / Chicago State), tightened up their geography,
and have some VERY good programs. Some would now regard them as a "sister conference" to the MVC (one of the most highly-respected mid-major D-1 conferences), with whom they share the MVFC. NDSU recently won 5 straight FCS championships !
They just need to do some tweaking.... IPFW is now a real "out-lier" and they need to get back to about 10 schools for the long-haul !


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