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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:42 am 
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Looks like it's official: Oral Roberts re-joins the Summit League for next season, after 2 years spent in the Southland Conference: http://www.thesummitleague.org/sports/a ... 3-orujoins (via The Summit League's website) http://www.orugoldeneagles.com/ViewArti ... =209332936 (via Oral Roberts athletics' website) I bet with this addition, it will have the conference to keep sponsoring baseball. On a side note, I was expecting that North Dakota would be on the Summit "watchlist", for the sake of the Dakotas.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:33 am 
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I don't get this at all???

Quote from ORU:

“When the Southland Conference expanded to 14 teams, some of our primary objectives in joining the Southland, such as improving travel costs and developing rivalries with selected schools, are no longer possible to achieve. With these changes in circumstances, we believe that returning to The Summit League is in the best interest of our programs and student-athletes."

It appeared to me....that the new schools in the Southland(UIW, ACU and HBU) all seemed to be teams that joined because of ORU. Now, ORU says the conference is too big???
Am I wrong on this? Four religious schools joined at just about the same time...and seemed to be a coordinated effort to get these small schools to ban together.

WTF? I don't get what changed??? Makes me think that a school twisted ORU's arm a bit....maybe Denver?
And....maybe my UT math isn't as good as ORU math....but, I don't think that travel in the Summit will be less than travel in the Southland. That seems to be a flat out lie.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:15 am 
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Couple of articles out of the Dakotas discussing ORU return to the Summit League at http://www.argusleader.com/article/2013 ... -next-year
and at http://www.yankton.net/sports/article_5 ... 963f4.html


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:53 pm 
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With Oral Roberts coming back and the Summit looking more stable I wonder if this causes UMKC to reconsider and rejoin the fold?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:01 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
With Oral Roberts coming back and the Summit looking more stable I wonder if this causes UMKC to reconsider and rejoin the fold?


Who knows? Only time will tell.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Don't think the ORU decision has that much bearing on UMKC.

However the UMKC decision to go to the WAC was just bizarre.

Apparently they felt they could NOT compete in the Summit, but from a location standpoint UMKC belongs in the Summit or MVC.

The travel bills that UMKC will encounter in the WAC should give SOMEBODY there some pause about "why again did we decide to do this ?"

It would've made more sense to plow the extra money that UMKC will spend on travel into making their various sports programs better.

If Sanity prevails and UMKC wants to return to the Summit, would the Summit take them back ?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Agreed, UMKC did not leave the Summit League due to conference instability. Between their lower athletic budget (especially with Denver coming in) and the difficulty in competing on a regular basis (in men's basketball) the WAC still looks to be an easier conference of institutions to maneuver for a possible chance of getting into the Dance. Plus, the WAC charged no entrance fee and covered the cost of UMKC’s exit fee from the Summit League: $250,000.

The biggest factor for the defection is that the WAC basketball tournament will be played in Kansas City in the next couple of years (so just like the 3 Dakotas during the Summit League tournament in Sioux Falls or ORU in Tulsa) UMKC will have a HUGE advantage to win the WAC tournament and receive an auto-bid for the NCAA's.

Would UMKC come back to the Summit? Not unless they want to give up that home-court advantage for the WAC tournament (since the Summit basketball tournament is scheduled for Sioux Falls thru 2017--it should BTW be rotated much more often to be fair to other Summit schools--even though all of the Dakota fans will tell you there has been record attendance in Sioux Falls, etc).

Looking at the NCAA map...if University of Missouri–St. Louis or Lindenwood University ever makes the jump to D-1 (and UMKC feels competitive) how could UMKC not eventually rejoin a conference where they are at the geographic center and are competing with peer institutions like UMSL, UNO, and IUPUI, plus state flagships like the Dakotas, and a couple of private academics in ORU and Denver.

Bet it doesn't happen for a couple of years at least--until that hoped for WAC basketball tournament in Kansas City...or if UMKC still gets their asses handed to them in the depleted WAC---may as well return to the Summit fold much sooner which I think is the eventual writing on the wall.

Would the Summit have UMKC back? You betcha. The eastern schools in the Summit will one day (could be many, many years) transition to a more Great Lakes based conference.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:23 am 
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Besides the schools already involved.....who else is there for the Summit to look at recruiting?

The Summit is in the direct line of fire for the Horizon League...to poach another team or two. The Big Sky could possibly poach a team to even up their numbers. The WAC swapped teams with them last season. If, for some reason, the Mo. Valley loses a team....the Summit could end up paying for it, as the position schools occupy on the ladder moves upward. I just don't see that the Summit is dealing from a position that has much behind it. They need to act now to foster relationships, strength, and the power it takes to get ahead of other competing conferences.

So, just like the SunBelt....I feel the Summit needs to add some teams now. So that, when the conference does lose another team....it won't damage the conferences core. Building a strong base of teams doesn't just happen overnight. Which leads me to wonder who might have a chance to make a move up to the Summit? And, if they add schools with fb.....how will that work out?

Suggested already: Lindenwood, UM St.Louis.
How many other teams are readily available to move up to D-1?
Are Regis and Metro State ready to move up?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:40 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Besides the schools already involved.....who else is there for the Summit to look at recruiting?

The Summit is in the direct line of fire for the Horizon League...to poach another team or two. The Big Sky could possibly poach a team to even up their numbers. The WAC swapped teams with them last season. If, for some reason, the Mo. Valley loses a team....the Summit could end up paying for it, as the position schools occupy on the ladder moves upward. I just don't see that the Summit is dealing from a position that has much behind it. They need to act now to foster relationships, strength, and the power it takes to get ahead of other competing conferences.

So, just like the SunBelt....I feel the Summit needs to add some teams now. So that, when the conference does lose another team....it won't damage the conferences core. Building a strong base of teams doesn't just happen overnight. Which leads me to wonder who might have a chance to make a move up to the Summit? And, if they add schools with fb.....how will that work out?

Suggested already: Lindenwood, UM St.Louis.
How many other teams are readily available to move up to D-1?
Are Regis and Metro State ready to move up?


Here's a suggestion or two the Summit needs: North Dakota, for a true Dakotas reunion (unless the other Dakota schools would be a huge target for the Big Sky). And maybe some D-II schools from conferences like the GLVC or GLIAC.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:36 pm 
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I live right between UMSL and Lindenwood, which are about 10 miles apart.

Lindenwood just made the move to D-2, but they have terrific facilities. I could see them jumping to D-1 down the road but not just yet.

UMSL is a commuter school and has been D-2 for quite a while, but their athletics budget seems unlikely to undergo major expansion,
and I don't think anyone there has a vision of D-1. I hear they are bringing back swimming this year or next.

North Dakota is a perfect fit for the Summit, but it always comes back to them needing a conference home for football.
If there was ever an opening in the MVFC (via expansion or somebody's departure), I think they would seek to move to the Summit / MVFC.
But football is what's holding them in the Big Sky at this point.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:18 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
North Dakota is a perfect fit for the Summit, but it always comes back to them needing a conference home for football.
If there was ever an opening in the MVFC (via expansion or somebody's departure), I think they would seek to move to the Summit / MVFC.
But football is what's holding them in the Big Sky at this point.


North Dakota is an ideal fit for the Summit (and MVFC for football). Plus, it has baseball, which the conference needs another member to keep the automatic bid alive in that sport. But at this point, like you said Tute, it'll stay in the Big Sky. Maybe if things go worse with the Summit (like for baseball), then the other Dakotas feel more than welcome to have an invite from the Big Sky.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:47 pm 
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I think once the Big East further expands, stuff like ORU moving back will make more sense. Big East growth is going to affect a lot of conferences in the ensuing refilling: A10, CAA, MVC, Horizon, Summit, SoCon, Big South, Southland, ASun, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:11 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Besides the schools already involved.....who else is there for the Summit to look at recruiting?

The Summit is in the direct line of fire for the Horizon League...to poach another team or two. The Big Sky could possibly poach a team to even up their numbers. The WAC swapped teams with them last season. If, for some reason, the Mo. Valley loses a team....the Summit could end up paying for it, as the position schools occupy on the ladder moves upward. I just don't see that the Summit is dealing from a position that has much behind it. They need to act now to foster relationships, strength, and the power it takes to get ahead of other competing conferences.

So, just like the SunBelt....I feel the Summit needs to add some teams now. So that, when the conference does lose another team....it won't damage the conferences core. Building a strong base of teams doesn't just happen overnight. Which leads me to wonder who might have a chance to make a move up to the Summit? And, if they add schools with fb.....how will that work out?

Suggested already: Lindenwood, UM St.Louis.
How many other teams are readily available to move up to D-1?
Are Regis and Metro State ready to move up?

Are you asking for the WAC or any conference?

N.Alabama-Already wants to move up but needs a home.
LIU-Post-was talking about moving to the NEC or merging w/ LIU-Brooklyn and keeping football
Augusta St.-was/is going to change their name and wants to move to D-I
Columbus St.-looking to move to D-I
W.Georgia-said they'd look into D-I when enrollment reaches 15K
Bellarmine-wanted to move up a few years back, haven't heard anything since the new move up rules
S.Indiana-same as Bellarmine
UCSD-would only move up to join the Big West, students shot down the fee hike to move up
Nova Southeastern-Seemed somewhat interested in D-I
W.Florida-said they'd either move to D-I or start football and stay D-II, they're starting football.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Besides the schools already involved.....who else is there for the Summit to look at recruiting?

The Summit is in the direct line of fire for the Horizon League...to poach another team or two. The Big Sky could possibly poach a team to even up their numbers. The WAC swapped teams with them last season. If, for some reason, the Mo. Valley loses a team....the Summit could end up paying for it, as the position schools occupy on the ladder moves upward. I just don't see that the Summit is dealing from a position that has much behind it. They need to act now to foster relationships, strength, and the power it takes to get ahead of other competing conferences.

So, just like the SunBelt....I feel the Summit needs to add some teams now. So that, when the conference does lose another team....it won't damage the conferences core. Building a strong base of teams doesn't just happen overnight. Which leads me to wonder who might have a chance to make a move up to the Summit? And, if they add schools with fb.....how will that work out?

Suggested already: Lindenwood, UM St.Louis.
How many other teams are readily available to move up to D-1?
Are Regis and Metro State ready to move up?

Are you asking for the WAC or any conference?

N.Alabama-Already wants to move up but needs a home.
LIU-Post-was talking about moving to the NEC or merging w/ LIU-Brooklyn and keeping football
Augusta St.-was/is going to change their name and wants to move to D-I
Columbus St.-looking to move to D-I
W.Georgia-said they'd look into D-I when enrollment reaches 15K
Bellarmine-wanted to move up a few years back, haven't heard anything since the new move up rules
S.Indiana-same as Bellarmine
UCSD-would only move up to join the Big West, students shot down the fee hike to move up
Nova Southeastern-Seemed somewhat interested in D-I
W.Florida-said they'd either move to D-I or start football and stay D-II, they're starting football.


Started to look at it the other day...when thinking about the Southland...and ORU moving out. Then when I started to consider the Summit....many of the schools could fit in either conference. It appears they both could use at least one non-fb school.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:45 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I think once the Big East further expands, stuff like ORU moving back will make more sense. Big East growth is going to affect a lot of conferences in the ensuing refilling: A10, CAA, MVC, Horizon, Summit, SoCon, Big South, Southland, ASun, etc.


This kind of makes me wonder why we don't hear more from some of these schools wanting to make the move up. Shouldn't some schools be lobbying for some of these openings?
I know Liberty was making a push...but, where are the others? It's like pulling teeth to get JMU to make a move.


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