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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:00 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
mozilla wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
The Summit needs to pursue North Dakota, Northern Colorado, and UMKC. North Dakota and Northern Colorado would give them 6 football schools and they could take over administration of the MVFC. Northern Colorado also means a travel partner for Denver. I think the Summit could really sell the grizzlies on a rivalry with the Pioneers and decreased travel expenses as the Summit League schools are closer than the more geographically spread out Big Sky and the Summit's geography is suited to traveling partners. UMKC brings back a major market right at the geographic center of the conference and rumor has it they are regretting the WAC move (and the WAC is very much at risk of being raided)

If UMKC isn't interested then pursue Eastern Illinois (brings a football program) or get into conversations with Chicago St--if UMKC hears that Chicago St might get the last spot it could coax them to jump.



Instead of UMKC, who has sucked, how about Lindenwood(St Louis area), C. Oklahoma(OKC area), C. Missouri(near KC), Mankato State, Minnesota St. Cloud, Wayne State(Detroit) or someone like that. All those schools play fb....and with fb, they would add much more than UMKC? And almost all are in or very near major metropolitan areas.


If you could get all of these schools to move up, it would be a better idea than trying to pry schools away, especially MVFC schools. The MVC can always just add 2 Summit schools w/ football and make it a conference spot, thus killing Summit fb.



Well, I meant to grab one of them. But, if they grabbed a handful and started their own conference....that would be pretty cool too.

So, what kind of miracle would have to occur to get the correct number to ensure fb in the Summit? Do I remember that 8 is the minimum to start a fb league?


6 for FCS. They just can't mess w/ the MVC b/c the MVC has the power to squash that idea. It won't happen b/c I can't see all those schools moving up and MVC could just take any 2 of NDSU, SDSU, USD, WIU as a full member to kill the Summit threat.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:57 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
mozilla wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
The Summit needs to pursue North Dakota, Northern Colorado, and UMKC. North Dakota and Northern Colorado would give them 6 football schools and they could take over administration of the MVFC. Northern Colorado also means a travel partner for Denver. I think the Summit could really sell the grizzlies on a rivalry with the Pioneers and decreased travel expenses as the Summit League schools are closer than the more geographically spread out Big Sky and the Summit's geography is suited to traveling partners. UMKC brings back a major market right at the geographic center of the conference and rumor has it they are regretting the WAC move (and the WAC is very much at risk of being raided)

If UMKC isn't interested then pursue Eastern Illinois (brings a football program) or get into conversations with Chicago St--if UMKC hears that Chicago St might get the last spot it could coax them to jump.



Instead of UMKC, who has sucked, how about Lindenwood(St Louis area), C. Oklahoma(OKC area), C. Missouri(near KC), Mankato State, Minnesota St. Cloud, Wayne State(Detroit) or someone like that. All those schools play fb....and with fb, they would add much more than UMKC? And almost all are in or very near major metropolitan areas.


If you could get all of these schools to move up, it would be a better idea than trying to pry schools away, especially MVFC schools. The MVC can always just add 2 Summit schools w/ football and make it a conference spot, thus killing Summit fb.



Well, I meant to grab one of them. But, if they grabbed a handful and started their own conference....that would be pretty cool too.

So, what kind of miracle would have to occur to get the correct number to ensure fb in the Summit? Do I remember that 8 is the minimum to start a fb league?


I would agree with Muskie on the part of trying to lure North Dakota and Northern Colorado in the Summit. With that, and breaking apart from the MVC fb schools of the MVFC, then the Summit would have football as a sponsored sport. But that's not all. The Summit does need a certain number of schools that should be moved up (like Lindenwood, Central Oklahoma, Central Missouri, Mankato State, St. Cloud State, Wayne State, Grand Valley State, among others who have success within the conference's footprint. The same should be applied for the MVC when it comes to sponsor football as a conference sport.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:39 pm 
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I'm not so sure that the MVC would have the will power to launch a counter-attack on the Summit to keep them from gaining a controlling stake in the MVFC. You would have to get some of the 4 private, non-football schools and/or Wichita St on board with that decision and adding members to the MVC would dilute the money that the MVC is bringing in for Creighton and Wichita St's tournament success.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a couple of the DII schools in Minnesota joining the Summit--perhaps if/when the Indiana schools depart.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:56 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I'm not so sure that the MVC would have the will power to launch a counter-attack on the Summit to keep them from gaining a controlling stake in the MVFC. You would have to get some of the 4 private, non-football schools and/or Wichita St on board with that decision and adding members to the MVC would dilute the money that the MVC is bringing in for Creighton and Wichita St's tournament success.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a couple of the DII schools in Minnesota joining the Summit--perhaps if/when the Indiana schools depart.


On the case of the MVC, how about brining Butler, Valpo, and Dayton to the MVC as football-only members from the PFL, while having already-full member Drake joining alongside (who also plays PFL football)? All of these four are currently playing non-scholarship football.

On the case of the Summit, how about having Eastern Illinois re-joining the Summit to revive their in-state rivalry with Western Illinois, and having Youngstown St. as a football-only member?

The landscape of results would look like this:

Summit fb.: Northern Colorado, North Dakota, North Dakota St., South Dakota, South Dakota St., Western Illinois; Eastern Illinois, Youngstown St. (fb-only)
MVC fb: Illinois St., Indiana St., Missouri St., Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois; Drake; Butler (fb-only), Valpo (fb-only), Dayton (fb-only)

But come to the thought of the D-II Minnesota schools jumping in, then the perspective would be different, if/when those Indiana schools withdraw.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:17 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I'm not so sure that the MVC would have the will power to launch a counter-attack on the Summit to keep them from gaining a controlling stake in the MVFC. You would have to get some of the 4 private, non-football schools and/or Wichita St on board with that decision and adding members to the MVC would dilute the money that the MVC is bringing in for Creighton and Wichita St's tournament success.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a couple of the DII schools in Minnesota joining the Summit--perhaps if/when the Indiana schools depart.


This is an old argument, that we've talked about and quinn in further detail on why MVC will not let the Summit start. I'm telling you MVC would have the go ahead to add 2 MVFC schools as full member to kill the Summit idea. And according the the UND guys they don't want to be NDSU's tag along and prefer their western conf. I wonder though if MVFC came calling, would they turn down a Summit/MVFC invite.

MVC should look at the Big South and A-Sun who were similar regional confs. but then the BSC added football and they pulled who they wanted from the A-Sun can't afford to lose anyone now or else risk AQ, BSC is doing the ASun a favor right now just taking KSU for fb only, they could take them as a full member when ever they want if they want. MVC will never let the Summit that's beneath them, get the upper hand where you'd see a shift allowing all the MVC members w/ fb shift to the Summit.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:23 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
I'm not so sure that the MVC would have the will power to launch a counter-attack on the Summit to keep them from gaining a controlling stake in the MVFC. You would have to get some of the 4 private, non-football schools and/or Wichita St on board with that decision and adding members to the MVC would dilute the money that the MVC is bringing in for Creighton and Wichita St's tournament success.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a couple of the DII schools in Minnesota joining the Summit--perhaps if/when the Indiana schools depart.


On the case of the MVC, how about brining Butler, Valpo, and Dayton to the MVC as football-only members from the PFL, while having already-full member Drake joining alongside (who also plays PFL football)? All of these four are currently playing non-scholarship football.

On the case of the Summit, how about having Eastern Illinois re-joining the Summit to revive their in-state rivalry with Western Illinois, and having Youngstown St. as a football-only member?

The landscape of results would look like this:

Summit fb.: Northern Colorado, North Dakota, North Dakota St., South Dakota, South Dakota St., Western Illinois; Eastern Illinois, Youngstown St. (fb-only)
MVC fb: Illinois St., Indiana St., Missouri St., Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois; Drake; Butler (fb-only), Valpo (fb-only), Dayton (fb-only)

But come to the thought of the D-II Minnesota schools jumping in, then the perspective would be different, if/when those Indiana schools withdraw.

You can't have a fb conf w/ 4 non scholly teams and 5 63 scholly teams. No way would the 5 schools settle for that they'd be w/ the schools they're currently with. It's like saying Michigan, Ohio St., Iowa, Michigan St., Youngstown St., Indiana St., N.Iowa, Illinois St. make a new conf. while the rest of the big 10 takes texas, oklahoma, oklahoma st.

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Last edited by Fresno St. Alum on Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
You can't have a fb conf w/ 4 non scholly teams and 5 63 scholly teams. No way would the 5 schools settle for that they'd be w/ the schools they're currently with. It's like saying Michigan, Ohio St., Iowa, Michigan St., Youngstown St., Indiana St., N.Iowa, Illinois St. while the rest of the big 10 takes texas, oklahoma, oklahoma st.


You do have a logic point. It would be impossible for the MVC to organize like this. But what about my Summit fb. perspective?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:39 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
You can't have a fb conf w/ 4 non scholly teams and 5 63 scholly teams. No way would the 5 schools settle for that they'd be w/ the schools they're currently with. It's like saying Michigan, Ohio St., Iowa, Michigan St., Youngstown St., Indiana St., N.Iowa, Illinois St. while the rest of the big 10 takes texas, oklahoma, oklahoma st.


You do have a logic point. It would be impossible for the MVC to organize like this. But what about my Summit fb. perspective?


Sure it looks good, we could make a conf w/ 5 caa schools and 5 socon schools and it would look good too, it doesn't make it any closer to becoming reality. The Summit has had this "option" since they got the GWC football schools, yet they haven't done it. NDSU and SDSU could join the Big Sky too if the Summit tried to force them to join their version of the exact same conf. they're in now.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
You can't have a fb conf w/ 4 non scholly teams and 5 63 scholly teams. No way would the 5 schools settle for that they'd be w/ the schools they're currently with. It's like saying Michigan, Ohio St., Iowa, Michigan St., Youngstown St., Indiana St., N.Iowa, Illinois St. while the rest of the big 10 takes texas, oklahoma, oklahoma st.


You do have a logic point. It would be impossible for the MVC to organize like this. But what about my Summit fb. perspective?


Sure it looks good, we could make a conf w/ 5 caa schools and 5 socon schools and it would look good too, it doesn't make it any closer to becoming reality. The Summit has had this "option" since they got the GWC football schools, yet they haven't done it. NDSU and SDSU could join the Big Sky too if the Summit tried to force them to join their version of the exact same conf. they're in now.


I think it would be better if some of the Dakota schools would join the Big Sky, leaving the leftovers for the MVC to absorb the MVFC and re-instate as a conference sport (making Western Illinois and Youngstown St. as fb-affiliates, which fits the MVC footprint).

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