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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:03 am 
Does anyone know where Indiana-Purdue Ft. Wayne is in this equation? Just wondering since conference tournament was in Ft. Wayne a few years ago. Is IPFW on radar for expansion or is there some other league for them?

what about a formation like this...

Mid Con
Oakland
IPFW
IUPUI
Valpo
Chi State
Oral Roberts
Centenary
Tx A&M Corp Christi
Tx Pan Am

new all-sports Great West
WIU
SDSU
NDSU
UNC
SUU
Cal-Davis
Cal Poly (football only)
St. Mary's (football only)
Denver (no fball)
UMKC (no fball)


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:21 pm 

Quote:
Does anyone know where Indiana-Purdue Ft. Wayne is in this equation? Just wondering since conference tournament was in Ft. Wayne a few years ago. Is IPFW on radar for expansion or is there some other league for them?

what about a formation like this...

Mid Con
Oakland
IPFW
IUPUI
Valpo
Chi State
Oral Roberts
Centenary
Tx A&M Corp Christi
Tx Pan Am

new all-sports Great West
WIU
SDSU
NDSU
UNC
SUU
Cal-Davis
Cal Poly (football only)
St. Mary's (football only)
Denver (no fball)
UMKC (no fball)


The new provisionary rules for schools moving up are intended to eliminate any incentive for new Div I basketball conferences from forming. Any new all-sports conference would have to wait 13 years for a basketball auto-bid if even just one of its six core members was a provisional member. Established Div I schools would never join a new league with UNC, NDSU, and SDSU unless at least six existing Div I members were a part of it. For this reason, Cal-Davis will not leave the Big West for at least five years. If schools like UNC, NDSU, or SDSU can get into an established conference, their provisionary membership period drops from 13 years to five years in men’s basketball. Therefore, it is absolutely critical for them to be invited to an established conference, as UC-Davis accomplished with an invite from the Big West.

The Mid-Con really has an opportunity to pick and chose one or two (assuming SUU leaves) new schools. Whoever does not get an invite from among the group of IPFW, Corpus Christi, UTPA, UNC, NDSU, SDSU, and also Utah Valley State will probably have to remain an independent for several more years. The wildcards are Denver or a school like Northern Kentucky, which has been rumored will announce a move up to Div I and would be a great Mid-Con geographic fit.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:36 pm 
IPFW might be screwed for a while. If any Mid-Con expansion goes west, like we've been speculating here, then the only hope IPFW has is to be picked up by the Horizon League out of pity. The Horizon currently has 9 teams. Maybe they might want to seven out their travel partner situation, but it's no guarantee.

- Wisconsin-Green Bay
- Wisconsin-Milwaukee
- Loyola
- UIC (Illinois-Chicago)
- Butler
- Detroit (Detroit-Mercy)
- Wright State
- Cleveland State
- Youngstown State

IPFW should have secured a conference home before moving up. IUPUI moved up in 1998 but had been in closed-door negotiations with the Mid-Con for the previous several years. It almost seems like IPFW said "IUPUI moved up so we should too" and just went out and did it without securing a conference.

And just in case anyone was wondering, the Missouri Valley Conference looks like its closed for the time being. They seem quite happy with their 10 teams and their many decades of history together. Bonds like that are hard to break without some serious money (such as the ACC and Big East fiasco) coming into the picture.

- Indiana State
- Evansville
- Illinois State
- Bradley
- Southern Illinois
- Southwest Missouri
- Northern Iowa
- Drake
- Creighton
- Wichita State

As for the proposed split of the Mid-Con and a new Great West ... Valparaiso and Western Illinois have been together in the Mid-Con since 1982 and have been playing each other since long before that. They are the anchors of the Mid-Con and it would take some extraordinary circumstances to split them up. UMKC has been in the Mid-Con since 1994 and is also a very solid anchor school for the league.

- Oakland (1998)
- IUPUI (1998)
- Valparaiso (1982)
- Chicago State (1994)
- Western Illinois (1982)
- UMKC (1994)
- Oral Roberts (1997)
- Centenary (2003)
- Southern Utah (1997)

As for the California schools, Cal Poly and UC Davis are committed members of the Big West. They have a very regional and cost-effective arrangement in that league, which is very competitive in many sports. Why would they give that up? And St. Mary's dropped football in March.

Utah Valley has made the same mistake as IPFW and TAMU-Corpus Christi in not getting a conference affiliation before moving up. It's going to be very tough for all three schools, especially without football, to find conference homes in the near future. Northern Kentucky better do some homework if they are serious about moving up.

North Dakota State, South Dakota State, and Northern Colorado have better prospects because of their size, state school status, and the fact that they all sponsor football. If Denver will swallow its pride and leave the Sun Belt, which is focused on a southern orientation now, they and Northern Colorado can make a great package deal for the Mid-Con.

The two Dakota schools could fit into either a big Mid-Con or a bigger Big Sky. Southern Utah would be a better geographic fit for the Big Sky, but that league has been uninterested in them for nearly two decades as it is. If Sacramento State leaves for the Big West, however, that could precipitate a change in attitude for what would suddenly be a conference left with just 7 teams. Time will tell.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:56 pm 
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Well put Lurker and Reiko. I think you summed it up quite nicely, and IMHO you hit the nail on the head. :)


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:31 pm 
89rabbit:

After some surfing tonight, was surprised to find this article in the Sioux Falls paper today:

http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Wednesdayarticle1.shtml with this quote:

"My understanding was that if (SDSU is) not in a conference on Sept. 1, that the Board of Regents would pull out the rug from underneath South Dakota State," he said. "For them to say it's not a deadline, that's wrong."

Upon approving SDSU's decision to leave Division II by a 6-2 vote in December 2002, the regents adopted a policy for state schools wanting to move to Division I. It placed restrictions on implementation of scholarships, funding and budgets for the Brookings institution and others seeking to move up a division.


If the State Board of Regents is imposing a September deadline, I can understand why you could be feeling some anxiety about obtaining conference membership,. Don’t they understand that these conference changes can take years? Would they actually force you back to Div II? Politically, it sounds as if the move hasn’t been all that popular. Is it solely because of budget issues? I recognize South Dakota is fiscally conservative, but even here in the low-tax South there wouldn’t be many questions about a move to Div I.

It is possible that a deadline could actually help you: if a conference really wanted you, they’d snap you up quickly and not play politics. But it may also be possible that a conference will take a view that the if state only reluctantly endorses a move to Div I,where’s the funding commitment? Does NDSU also have this issue?




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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:08 pm 
http://experts.caller.com/index.cfm?action=show&id=7

Interesting quote from the Corpus Christi Caller-Times:

For this Mid-Con Expansion round: "Watch out for Denver, they have some influence."



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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:34 pm 
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Lurker,

You didn't post some very important parts of the article. Like the Headline of the story "Deadline moot point for SDSU". The story makes it clear that there has NEVER been a deadline. I know you are tired of TAMCC being an indy, but come on, you don't need to bend the truth. The story ends with the Executive Director of the Board of Regents saying that the board remains confortable with the progress that SDSU has made.

Also something to keep in mind, that the story does not talk about, is that the SD Board of Regents is more pro-SDSU now then it was in '02 and the Governor is NOW an SDSU Alum. I understand that he is privately for the move although he has not made a public statement either way. SDSU's move to D-I is rock solid!


http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Wednesdayarticle1.shtm

Deadline moot point for SDSU
Chris Solari
Argus Leader

published: 6/16/2004

Regents will assess the league search by Sept. 1

The South Dakota Board of Regents is considering a date given to South Dakota State University officials for finding a Division I conference as a time frame instead of a deadline.

Robert "Tad" Perry, executive director of the board, said the Sept. 1 date given to SDSU was to gauge the progress in searching for a new league.

"What we've tried to do is let (SDSU) know we want to have some direction from campus by the time we started this next (school) year," Perry said Tuesday.

"They're in limbo as these conferences have their conversations. We have to let the conferences make their decisions and be patient." . . .

The talk of the deadline began in February when Sen. Clarence Kooistra of Garretson questioned then-board appointee Carol Pagones. Kooistra, a Republican and a staunch opponent of his alma mater's move to Division I, said SDSU had to have conference affiliation by Sept. 1 as mandated by the regents.

Perry refuted that Tuesday.

"It's not something that's formal," Perry said. "Clarence interpreted that as a Sept. 1 deadline. It was not a formal action of the board, so you won't find it in the board's minutes."

Kooistra disagreed. Acknowledging there was a "gray area" as to whether the date applied solely to the football program or all of the Jackrabbits' sports, he still feels SDSU must have a league in order to make the move.

"My understanding was that if (SDSU is) not in a conference on Sept. 1, that the Board of Regents would pull out the rug from underneath South Dakota State," he said. "For them to say it's not a deadline, that's wrong."

Upon approving SDSU's decision to leave Division II by a 6-2 vote in December 2002, the regents adopted a policy for state schools wanting to move to Division I. It placed restrictions on implementation of scholarships, funding and budgets for the Brookings institution and others seeking to move up a division.

Board President Harvey Jewett said at the time that, "In effect, adopting this policy leaves the ultimate decision of whether to move to Division I-AA in SDSU's hands, as long as the institution complies with all aspects of the Board policy and an appropriate athletic conference can be found."

SDSU was required to let the North Central Conference know by Sept. 1, 2003 whether it would remain in the Division II league. School officials filed the paperwork with the NCC on Aug. 15, 2003.

Only football in the NCAA has the subclassification of I-AA. The rest of the SDSU's athletic programs will compete in Division I. The Jackrabbits became charter members of the Great West Football Conference, a new I-AA league. The university is still seeking a home for its 19 other sports. . . .

"We have ongoing conversations with President (Peggy) Miller and the people at SDSU to get updates to keep the board abreast on where they are at (in finding a league)," Perry said. "We remain comfortable with the progress they're making."


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:39 pm 
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Quote:
http://experts.caller.com/index.cfm?action=show&id=7

Interesting quote from the Corpus Christi Caller-Times:

For this Mid-Con Expansion round: "Watch out for Denver, they have some influence."



As I quickly read the info at that site, I had to wonder, if the Mid-Con wanted TAMCC why hadn't they picked them up already? I also know that having football has helped bring us (SDSU, UNC, NDSU) closer to many of the folks in the Mid-Con as they have been a huge help getting the Great West started. Just some quick thoughts.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:51 pm 
89rabbit:

Surprised that you were offended by what was written. After all, the subtitle of link was "Regents will assess the league search by Sept. 1. " Politically, the situation seems almost inverted to most state's athletic aspirations.

Yes, I would like to see the Islanders of TAMU-CC get a conference invite, but I really would rather not see any Div I school stuck as as independent. That is a sure way to deflate the finances and enthusiasm of any school.

On your question on why Corpus Christi was not picked up earlier by the Mid-Con: Corpus was probably too far of a travel reach. Now with Centenary, there is a more natural travel partner. Clearly, Corpus is still in contention.

Today, there was another news items on SDSU's conference search:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/8946806.htm

Why would NDSU and SDSU be so strongly pursuing the Big Sky after being rejected and told to look elsewhere? (Corpus Christi has never explicitly been told to look elsewhere by the Mid-Con.) Wouldn't SDSU's strong interest in the Big Sky be a signal to Mid-Con of relative disinterest? The NDSU AD doesn't seem too optimistic for a Mid-Con bid in the near term. Would NDSU and SDSU ever part ways to get a conference bid?



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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:09 am 
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Quote:

Utah Valley has made the same mistake as IPFW and TAMU-Corpus Christi in not getting a conference affiliation before moving up. It's going to be very tough for all three schools, especially without football, to find conference homes in the near future.

North Dakota State, South Dakota State, and Northern Colorado have better prospects because of their size, state school status, and the fact that they all sponsor football.

The two Dakota schools could fit into either a big Mid-Con or a bigger Big Sky. Southern Utah would be a better geographic fit for the Big Sky, but that league has been uninterested in them for nearly two decades as it is. If Sacramento State leaves for the Big West, however, that could precipitate a change in attitude for what would suddenly be a conference left with just 7 teams. Time will tell.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:11 pm 
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It's fairly unlikely that NDSU and SDSU would part ways in the search for a conference. Together they present a much greater package deal for a conference as travel partners. Neither school is relativley close to schools in the Big Sky or Mid-Con. so they would be a long road trip for just one game.

NDSU doesn't have to deal with a Board of Regents.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:53 pm 
One thing I forgot to add. Corpus Christi’s bid for Mid-Con membership will be stronger than in past, as it will have a new bayfront arena as an attraction.

http://www1.infinitydesign.net/virtual/ccarena.com/www/

http://www.cctexas.com/?fuseaction=main.view&page=1640

It is hoped that the conference tournament can be held there. Corpus would have to be more attractive in early March than Tulsa, Kansas City, or Indianapolis. Even fans of losing teams would stay around and enjoy the beach. The Mid-Con coffers would benefit with a tournament in Corpus, as Corpus could serve as the Mid-Con's spring break.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:29 pm 
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SDSU leads Nation in attendence in both Men's (again)and Women's basketball.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/Athletics/NewsDetail51153.cfm?Id=46,3713

SDSU Leads Nation In Basketball Attendance
BROOKINGS, SD – South Dakota State University led NCAA Division II in basketball attendance for 2003-04.

Men AND women.

In statistics released by the NCAA Monday . . .

It’s the sixth time during Scott Nagy’s tenure as head coach that the men have led Division II in attendance. SDSU was first in attendance in 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000 and 2002. . . .

WOMEN- In Division II, South Dakota State captured its first attendance title . . .

Image

SDSU's Frost Arena (Cap. 8,500)


Last edited by 89rabbit on Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:37 pm 
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Latest from the Mid-Con:

http://www.mid-con.com/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2276

The Mid-Continent Conference Presidents Council held its annual spring meeting on Thursday in Chicago, Ill. Along with accepting a revised league constitution and bylaws, the Presidents Council discussed membership issues, approved a change in format for the league’s basketball tournaments, and elected new officers for the 2004-05 school year. . . .

“The revised tournament format for basketball will reward strong regular-season play by potentially giving a full day’s rest during the tournament for the top two seeds,” Mid-Con Commissioner Ron Bertovich said. “ Additionally, membership issues were discussed and will remain a ‘front burner’ topic for the group.”


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:00 am 
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It had been awhile since I had heard any Mid-Con rumors and with the ever increasing chances that NDSU and SDSU are going to the Big Sky (both were invited to apply for membership and are being evaluated by the Big Sky) I did a little digging.

The new rumor is that the Mid-Con will expand to 12 teams and do a East/West split and pick up Utah Valley State to be a travel partner for Southern Utah (already in the Mid-Con) and pick up Denver and Northern Colorado.

Makes sense to me.


Last edited by 89rabbit on Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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