also furmanfan, i just dont see app st. moving up. there are already 5 nc schools at division 1-a. i dont think we can handle a 6th.

HOWEVER, if one of these schools was really interested they should do it soon as they would fit perfectly as the 12th member in c-usa.

A reliable source has told me that Coastal has been visited and had visits from the SoCon and will be annouced as an assition soon.

that is probably the most logical choice. it allows davidson to move up to the north division and doesnt add too much travel. i guess the only one upset would be utc as they are now fairly isolated, even though looking at the map, i think they will be fine geographically.

this creates a pretty stable socon imo.

I don't think the privates are as concerned with academics as they are with stability. Large public schools are more apt to move on to 1A. Coastal with a new program and a 6500 seat stadium will be 1AA for at least a decade. Good choice I think.

Go Phoenix - The mighty Miami Hurricanes add a second Elon coach to the staff. Baseball - Morris and now Basketball - Haith. Any prospects for replacing Coker?
Congrats!

PackMan - We've got quite a coaching presence in a lot of sports, especially the baseball world. We're having a terrible year this year as we're rebuilding though.

Anyhow.... so App may now leave. CoC, UNCG and Davidson will all be staying. So what happens? I am sure App fans will start singing their own praises and start the talk of the conference falling apart, which I think is far from happening.

I think the conference could be much better off without App. They've been holding the conference to their standards for a while and that could be seen as holding the conference back, so to speak.

So what happens if App leaves. We'd then be down to 7 football members, which will be even with the CAA.

We could also see a situation where we will need football members, but some members should be easy to attain. Eastern Kentcuky (who is being talked to now) could be a likely replacement for App, and could give the conference another good public school replacement. Other than that, schools like A&T, Hampton, Coastal, and Liberty will need to be considered given the financial problems that TTU and UTM are facing.

It could be a hairy situation. but it is by no means the end of the world if App leaves.

you still managed to sweep us though. i was at one of the games, you guys had a nice crowd there. :P

It's kind of nice to call a near .500 year a bad year. But it is. We are normally a regional power, but we lost a lot to the minors last year.

Hopefully next year we'll be fine again. It's just pitching that is suspect right now. And it looks like you guys are in the same boat.

We usually have good crowds home and away. Baseball has been one of those sports that is a staple for us, especially with the Indians and Marlins connections and three MLB managers live within .5 miles of campus.

hey phoenix, do you think something will be announced before july. isnt this etsu's last year, cause if it is, won't yall need another member for 2005?

Doubtful.....

ETSU still has next season to chug along with us too. From what I understand, ETSU has plans to tear down their dome too.

Besides, it looks like the conference is waiting a year to see what happens to Coastal and to wait for the new Myrtle Beach Civic Center to be built.

but if coastal doesnt join by july, then the socon will only have 11 teams, 8 for football, for the 2005-2006 season. why not go ahead and take coastal now?

Well, at this point, even if Coastal is the one to be admitted, their going to be screwed like Elon was. The Big South requires two years prior notice to leave or else their is a $250k penalty. And the SoCon has a $250k entry fee. Like us, they have a half million they'd have to raise to be in by 05-06 anyway.

heres an article on coastal and the socon

From the Myrtle Beach Sun News...









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Posted on Sun, May. 30, 2004



Courting the SoCon
Coastal Carolina, a charter member of the Big South, is building its case to be considered for Southern Conference membership
By Melinda Waldrop
The Sun News

The courtship has officially begun.

Long-circulating rumors that Coastal Carolina University is interested in moving from the Big South Conference to the Southern Conference have been given credence by a six-page informational brochure Coastal has mailed to Southern Conference institutions.

Titled "The Case," with a picture of CCU's new football stadium on the cover, the glossy pages provide an introduction to Coastal and the Myrtle Beach area and offer comparisons between Coastal's athletic revenues and expenditures and Southern Conference averages.

"The packets are an information-gathering piece," CCU athletic director Warren Koegel said. "[People] can read about what Coastal's doing, not just athletically but academically and financially."

The brochures were only sent to Southern Conference schools, Koegel said.

The 83-year-old Southern Conference, which gave birth to present-day Atlantic Coast and Southeastern Conference powers, consists of larger, more established schools than the Big South, which was founded in 1983.

Those schools are also geographically closer to Coastal, an average of 228 miles from Conway, compared to 277 for Big South schools. Excluding East Tennessee State, which will be leaving the conference after the 2004-05 academic year, two of the 11 Southern Conference members are more than 300 miles away, whereas four of the other eight full Big South members are more than 300 miles from Conway, including Birmingham-Southern, 490 miles away in Alabama.

"I think the Southern, honestly, is a better fit for our fans, our community, our school geographically," CCU men's basketball coach Pete Strickland said. "[It's] a league that our fans and our residents here identify with, because those are schools that our residents went to. And the travel's saner, [and] the rivalries are more real."

The topic of transferring conferences heated up with CCU's addition of a football program in 2003 and the folding of football at East Tennessee State, which is the reason for the school's departure from the SoCon, as the Southern Conference is commonly known.

"[Football] drives [the Southern] Conference," CCU football coach David Bennett said. " ... You've got teams in that that have had football teams for over 100 years."

Steve Shutt, Southern Conference associate commissioner, said the league has no timetable for replacing East Tennessee, if it decides to do so. And Koegel stressed that all communications between CCU and the Southern Conference are preliminary.

"Any time you're in business, you've got to look at opportunity," Koegel said. "We're very happy right now in the Big South Conference, but [is] there another conference out there that might be a better fit for us someday? I don't know that."

The recent history of a former rival, however, may offer some insight as Coastal searches for that answer.

Making the move

Elon University's stay in the Big South Conference was a brief one.

After two provisional years of membership, the school near Burlington, N.C., became an official member of the Big South in the 1999-2000 season. But in May of 2002, Elon was offered and accepted membership in the Southern Conference, and played its first season in its new league in 2003-04.

"The Southern Conference is a very old, historic, prestigious league, comprised of some first-rate institutions," Elon athletic director Alan White said. "We feel like it's been a good move for Elon University."

It was a move spurred by football, which Elon has played since 1909. The Phoenix felt constrained competing in the Big South, which has five football-playing members.

The regular-season champions of Division I-AA conferences with at least six teams qualify for consideration for an automatic postseason bid, while those in leagues without the minimum number or playing as independents must put together superlative seasons to earn a possible at-large berth.

"[Football] is an important element of our program, so without sufficient numbers of schools playing football in the Big South, certainly [switching conferences] was good for us," White said.

The numbers game also impacts Big South football programs in other ways. With just four other league members, teams are often left to scramble to fill late-season schedule slots that, in a larger league, would be occupied by conference contests.

"Normally, if you're in a conference, your last seven or eight games are locked in," Bennett said. "The first three or four dates is what you're trying to fill. We've got dates here and dates there [to fill]."

But while finding a better fit for its football team may have been the impetus behind Elon's relocation, it's not the only sport that has benefited from the move.

Brenda Paul, Elon women's basketball coach for a decade, said playing in the Southern Conference creates rivalries with nearby schools such as UNC Greensboro and puts her program into a league with a higher RPI - a fact that has not gone unnoticed by potential recruits.

"The kids are aware of that," she said. "Now they know you're playing a higher competition. ... I thought the Big South was very competitive, too. I just think that if you've got a football program, it's tough to be out in the middle of nowhere land."

The process of change White said Elon made its interest in the Southern Conference known in an "informal approach," providing the league with information much like Coastal is doing now.

Eventually, SoCon officials visited the campus and extended an expansion invitation - the league's first since 1999, Shutt said.

Shutt said that if the SoCon decides to expand again, it will consider three key factors: a school's football program; its "geographical footprint," or proximity to present members; and its athletic and academic tradition.

The packet CCU sent to SoCon members notes Coastal's 55-28-2 record against Southern Conference teams in the 2002-03 season, mentions various athletic and academic honors earned by student-athletes, and estimates the school spent $650,000 on a football team that went 6-5 in its inaugural season.

If the league's 12-member executive committee, made up of faculty athletic representatives, decides to consider an institution, league officials will visit that school. They will then make a recommendation to the executive committee, and nine of its members must vote to extend an invitation.

But Shutt, who said he hasn't seen the information packets sent out by Coastal and wouldn't comment on CCU specifically, said the league isn't in any hurry to find a 12th member. He cited the Big Ten and other conferences as leagues that succeed with 11.

"The 11-member [situation] doesn't scare us," Shutt said. "There's some good models for us to follow. But if our membership finds an institution that meets all of those drivers, then we'll see what happens."

The next steps

The Big South, though, isn't willing to concede its football-playing members to other conferences.

Though declining to mention specific schools, conference commissioner Kyle Kallander said the league continues to talk to prospective members and hopes to add more football programs in "the near future."

"Our focus has to be on providing the best opportunities for our members, and part of that certainly is getting to a minimum of six football members so we can become eligible for an automatic [playoff] bid," Kallander said. "I'm very aware that unless we're able to do that, institutions have to be concerned."

Kallander said there isn't an overwhelming number of Division I-AA schools playing football independently or in other conferences that fit into the Big South's academic, athletic, geographical and marketing criteria. But he said there is interest in the league, as its members show a commitment to football by upgrading facilities and financing more scholarships.

"That's the reason for my optimism," Kallander said. "I really feel like we're doing some good things here. ... We want to grow the conference and get larger, and we believe that's going to happen."

If a school does decide to leave the Big South, it is required to give two years' notice or face penalties.

Bennett, whose football team went 1-3 in its inaugural Big South season, said his program has to make strides in its present conference before moving to another.

"I'd just like to see us do well in the Big South right now, [but] if [the Southern Conference] is the direction that we go, I'll be all for it," Bennett said. " ... I don't know when that would happen, if it would happen. I know it's being looked at."

And that action alone has raised questions Bennett, and perhaps his Big South counterparts, would like answered.

"What's the ambition of the Big South?" Bennett said. "Do you want to keep schools like Coastal? Do you want to expand? Or are you going to sit right here and hope it makes it?"


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Contact MELINDA WALDROP at (843) 444-1767 or at mwaldrop@thesunnews.com.

here is another one

Posted on Sun, May. 30, 2004



If offer comes, the answer will be easy
So why would Coastal Carolina University want to join the Southern Conference?

A more appropriate question might be, why wouldn't it?

The Southern Conference offers more tradition, prestige and exposure than its current league, the Big South Conference. The SoCon, as it is commonly called, provides a better geographical fit and closer big-name rivalries; championship-caliber football and basketball programs, as well as top-notch non-revenue sports; and increased fan interest.

So what are the downsides?

"Are there any negatives? I can't think of any," said former Furman University football coach[--bleep--]Sheridan of Murrells Inlet, who serves on Coastal's football advisory committee. "I don't see anything but pluses."

Sheridan knows a bit about the SoCon, having coached the Paladins to six conference football titles and the 1985 NCAA Division I-AA championship.

When Coastal asked Sheridan to serve on the school's football advisory committee to kick off the program in 2003, he offered this first piece of advice: Join the Southern Conference.

"Absolutely, I make no secret about it," Sheridan said. "Ever since I've been on their advisory committee, that was my advice to them from the word go. That ought to be their goal."

Sheridan isn't alone in that view. Former Coastal chancellor and Big South Conference commissioner[--bleep--]Singleton still feels a deep sense of loyalty to the league he helped create, but realizes the SoCon is the way for Coastal to go.

"I think it's a super idea. I would love it," Singleton said. "I would have some mixed emotions. I would hate to see us leave the Big South with us being one of the founding members, but I do think it would be to our advantage."

Coastal helped found the Big South in 1983 to achieve NCAA Division I status. The SoCon, on the other hand, is 83 years old and gave birth to both the Atlantic Coast Conference and the Southeastern Conference.

Today it serves as the top Division I-AA football conference in the country, which is the primary reason a switch makes sense for Coastal. The growth of the CCU campus and its sports programs also indicate it may be time to step up in class.

"The first few years [of Division I play] were wonderful, but in the last few years, with the addition of I-AA football, I think the growth in the last five years has been more than all the previous years," Singleton said.

When men's basketball was the only revenue sport on campus, the Big South was a perfect fit. But with a new football program that turned heads with a winning season in its inaugural year, foresight says Coastal should be in a league with an automatic bid to the playoffs instead of the five-team, loosely formed Big South.

"The Southern Conference is the top [I-AA] conference in the country as far as the number of schools getting in the playoffs and winning national championships," Sheridan said. "I know Coastal can compete. What they did last year with two recruiting classes was remarkable, and it's an indication that they're going to be competitive in the future.

"But, even if they weren't, just to be in that conference would be an honor from the standpoint of fan interest and drawing people from the schools that you play."

The SoCon has four schools based in South Carolina (The Citadel, College of Charleston, Furman and Wofford) and five in North Carolina (Appalachian State, Davidson, Elon, UNC Greensboro and Western Carolina). Georgia Southern and Chattanooga in Tennessee represent the longest drives - East Tennessee State is on its way out of the SoCon - with an average trip per opponent of 228 miles.

The Big South has two other schools in South Carolina (Charleston Southern and Winthrop) and three in North Carolina (High Point, UNC Asheville and Gardner-Webb). Three are located in Virginia (Liberty, Radford and VMI) and one in Alabama (Birmingham-Southern), with an average trip per opponent of 277 miles.

It might not sound like much over the long haul, but with the balance of SoCon rivals in the Carolinas, Coastal could see a decrease in travel expenditures and an increase in visiting attendance, and that adds up.

"There are so many schools within easy driving distance, and they have fans who travel well," Sheridan said. "For people at Furman, Wofford, The Citadel, it's not a bad drive to the beach to see a game.

"From a geographic standpoint, Coastal is going to be very attractive to I-AA recruits. There's no doubt in my mind that they could compete. They would be a worthy addition to the Southern Conference. In my opinion, it's a natural fit."

There are hangups, however, to Coastal's attractiveness to the SoCon, chiefly Kimbel Arena, the small on-campus gym where the Chants' men's and women's basketball teams play. Coastal is currently in negotiations to partner in a large arena project, which would greatly enhance its chances of getting an invitation.

"I think one of our drawbacks has been the lack of a good place to play basketball," Singleton said. "I definitely think the arena would be a step forward in achieving membership."

Sheridan agrees: "An arena would be good for a lot of reasons, but that's something that would be attractive to the Southern Conference," he said. "I could see it hosting the Southern Conference basketball tournament on down the line."

Just another potential benefit of joining the SoCon, but Coastal still has a long way to go to make it happen. The mailing of brochures to SoCon university presidents is only the first step in what could be a long process to gain membership.

"It wouldn't happen overnight; it would probably take a couple of years," Sheridan said. "It's not going to be automatic. The Southern Conference has a lot of schools that would like to be in, but I certainly think trying is a great idea. I hope they can make it happen."

As much as Singleton likes the Big South, he knows the time has come for Coastal to grow. Earning an invitation from the SoCon may be difficult, but the answer would be easy.

"The prestige is worth the money it takes to gain it, but they have to extend an invitation to us," he said. "But I will be honest about it. If the Southern Conference extended an invitation, the administration of Coastal Carolina University would accept it readily."

As it should. It seems the pros overwhelmingly outweigh the cons of joining the SoCon.


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Contact TERRY MASSEY at 626-0371 or via e-mail at tmassey@thesunnews

Because Coastal's gym would be the smallest in the SoCon.
Coastal has the highest DI dropout rate.
Coastal is the lowest in athletic-academics in the Big South.
Coastal has a fledgling football program.
Coastal has the highest ahtlete non-graduation rate in the Big South.

See a pattern? Coastal is not a very clean program.