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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:41 pm 
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SLU is 3rd on the totem pole in Missouri when it comes to D1 schools in state. Ask anybody who lives in Missouri, it goes MU, MSU, then SLU. Now SLU doesn't think that way, but they are a little different anyways. The MVC mid major compared to A-10 is a little off, other than markets they are pretty similar.


What I'm talking about SportsKC is who is the #1 Division 1 basketball option in the city. SLU is the only Division 1 program located in the city of Saint Louis. The statewide teams probably have a greater overall following in St. Louis, but that is besides the point.

The setup of the A-10 is different from the MVC with a lot of universities that are the second banana for basketball with in their respective cities.

A-10 tier breakdown.

Saint Louis
Dayton
Cincinnati, Xavier*
Pittsburgh, Duquense*
Georgetown, George Washington*
Richmond
Charlotte
St.Bonaventure
Villanova, La Salle*, Temple*, St. Joe's*
St.John's, Fordham*
UMass
Providence, Rhode Island*

What you have is about 50% of the A-10 being second banana basketball options within their respective cities.

The MVC schools don't have any second bananas, hence they have great attendance.

The MAC is much the same deal as the MVC except for Eastern Michigan being in the same county as UMichigan. The difference is the causal fan rallies around football in the MAC while its basketball in the MVC.


While they are the only team in the city, still means they are competing against the statewide flagships.

As far as the Bradley/Illinois State portion of the MVC, those two schools are only 40 miles apart, and U Illinous is only 50 miles from Normal, IL, and 90 miles from Peoria, plus there is the neighboring Decatur and Springfield smallish metro areas that could be the source of a concentration of fans. So in this Central IL Megalopolis, U of Illinois is commutable in an early evening/night to a U of Illinois bball game that when you say it is the only game in town, it really not as these MVC schools are competing for fans with a Big 10 team in all these Central IL metro areas, thus, they are more likely to follow U of Illinois, due to their larger alumni bases and the larger market appeal of the higher order conference of the Big 10.

In the MAC, you have pairs of MAC teams competing with each other in the same metro area, which is in essence the "same town". Bowling Green is a mere 20 miles from Toledo and is in the Toledo metro state area. So BGSU and UT are in the same town in the same market and have tons of U of M, Ohio State and some Notre Dame and Michigan State fans. Same with Kent State and Akron, same metro area and about 15 miles from each other. If you live there, take your pick, plus Ohio State, and then you have Cleveland State and Youngstown State both within commuting distance (a mere 50 miles either way). In the Cincy area, you have both UCincy and Miami in the same metro area, plus OSU support and Dayton and Wright State are really commutable.

Ball State is not far from IUPUI, Butler, and IPFW. Eastern is definitely in the deep shadows of U of M. Central Michigan is 1 hour from E. Lansing and MSU and Kalamazoo, home of WMU is a little more than 1 hour from MSU. WMU and CMU are somewhat in the shadows of Michigan State. Ohio U is 75 miles from Ohio State. They have some support in Columbus, but not on the level of Ohio State. NIU is in the shadows on not only U of Illinois, but all those Chicago based teams.

They are casual fans, but even on the local level are not too separated from a comparable competing team or completely are separated from the locales of major state flagship schools.

Even in the MVC this is the case. Lincoln is commutable from Omaha, Iowa State is easily commutable from Drake's town of DSM, UNI is not far from Iowa in Iowa City. I knew a number of UNI grads that preferred to root for Iowa rather than their very own school. They were just going to school there. Indiana State is not more than 1 hour from IU and Bloomington. There's not much separation of either one of these conference schools to call them the only game in town given commutable proximity of these schools from the state flagships.


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:51 pm 
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I guess out of all the possible expansion moves toward 12, thinking about it I like Valpariso and WKU.

Valpo fits in the mold of private universities like Bradley, Crieghton, Drake, and Evansville.


Valpo is private but it isn't like those schools. Those schools are mid-size metro based schools.


As far as market population, Valpo is located in a mid-major market of Gary-Hammond-East Chicago/NW Indiana market. Valpo is located in Lake/Porter Counties market which is about 600K+ which is the same size as Wichita and Des Moines. Its technically a part of the Greater Chicago metro area, but Valpo is the local team of the IN portion of the Chicago metro area. Although Notre Dame and Purdue are not far away and have significant support in these two counties and there is also a branch of IU there and has some support for IU there as well. But definitely the same size markets as the MVC and MAC for the most part. Don't just look at the town its located in but the county its located as well as the Metropolitan Division and Metropolitan Area that it is located in. Looking at the town is too simplistic, especially when it is located in a mid-major/major metro area and/or is commutable from neighboring population centers.

I have driven by Valpo U before and there lots of suburban development that it connected to the Steel City of Gary and Greater Chicago.


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:06 pm 
(S)MS(U) homer alert!


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:21 pm 
1996: Tulsa departs for WAC
1994: Evansville added from Midwest Collegiate
1991: Northern Iowa added from Mid-Con
1990: Southwest Missouri State added from Mid-Con
1986: West Texas State departs for D-II
1983: New Mexico State departs for PCAA
1981: Illinois State added
1977: Creighton and Indiana State added
1975: Metro Conference formed (charter membership includes former MVC members Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis State, and Saint Louis)
1974: Southern Illinois added

It should probably be noted that Creighton had a previous membership in the MVC in and around the WWII-era...


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:37 pm 
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Thats about right metro, expect I would say several of the schools have semi-statewide support. While not near the BCS flagship levels, they do get some ink in major papers, tv time, and state wide radio network.


I think the difference is in semantics. Regional, urban-based, and semi-statewide are synonmous. However, support for Mizzou is large and widespread statewide based on the frequency in the newspapers and devoted space on newspaper websites, as well as statewide radio networks. Missouri State regional support colides with not only the statewide Mizzou support, but also SEMO in the Southeast Missouri and the Boot Heel, CMSU between KC and Columbia/Jefferson City, UMKC in KC metro, NWMSU in the northwest and Truman University in the northeast and SLU in metro St. L. The difference is it is mostly regional but has more support than these other regionals in the state and substantially less than the flagship Mizzou.


Actually I was thinking more about Illinois State and Southern Illinois than I was Missouri State.


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Honestly I dont look for the MVC to do anything members wise. Maybe if the BE breaks up and some friction comes from that maybe they add 2 or if they want to take the A-10 or any of the other competing Midwest conferences down a notch.


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:25 am 
When is Western Kentucky going to make up its mind on joining the Missouri Valley Conference for its Olympic Sports or joining the Sun Belt Conference for football?


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:07 am 
a) WKU apparently has not been invited to join the MVC as an all-sports member. So right now, that's not an option.

b) The Sun-Belt would love to see them move their FB up. For whatever reason, WKU has been talking more to the MAC, so that if they go all the way with a FB upgrade and put all sports in the same I-A conference, it might be the MAC, not the Sun-Belt.


There are issues with upgrading FB.

1) Costs associated with more scholarships, and maintaining a higher-profile FB program.
2) Will the 15,000 attendance criteria for 1-A ever be rigidly enforced ?

It seems WKU administration is very hesitant right now. The status quo is OK, maybe they think their FB program is better suited to a 1-AA environment, and their ideal situation is to join the MVC (if an invitation were to materialize down the road). I dunno....


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:58 am 
What would WKU most like to do?

Get into the MAC?


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:41 pm 
I just want anser now not 3 years from now.


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 Post subject: MVC Expansion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:49 pm 
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I just want anser now not 3 years from now.


The answer is no.


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