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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:44 am 
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I guess I didn't realize that Georgetown had such wide reaching appeal throughout the area :o
Who would have thunk it?

So, if the BE takes two. It seems SLU is the number one choice...and two and three seem to be between Rich and Duq.

Which leaves one last question....what could make the BE take four? Or will the BE want four more schools?


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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:25 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Just in case the A-10 couldn't find any possible members for expansion within D-I (most recently having George Mason from the CAA, and Davidson from the SoCon), shouldn't it be also analyzing possible upgrade hopeful schools in D-II (based on their geographic footprint and success tenures)? For example, the A-10 could look up in the CCAA, PSAC, ECC, NE-10, GLIAC and GLVC?


The A10 is one of the top two leagues in basketball...why do they want to shop the DII level for schools?
The A10 will attempt to grab the best DI schools when they go shopping.


If you say so, then which "best" D-I conferences should the A-10 lurk at (besides the CAA and the SoCon)?


MVC, Horizon, AE, MAAC...


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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:12 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
MVC, Horizon, AE, MAAC...


Good point Bishin. But in your opinion, which schools from those conferences that you mentioned will be possibly A-10 worthy?

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:17 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
I guess I didn't realize that Georgetown had such wide reaching appeal throughout the area :o
Who would have thunk it?

So, if the BE takes two. It seems SLU is the number one choice...and two and three seem to be between Rich and Duq.

Which leaves one last question....what could make the BE take four? Or will the BE want four more schools?

Don't count out Dayton and VCU, many think they just aren't a good fit, but that doesn't make them less of candidates.

Most doubt they'd go past 12, but if the TV was was promised I could see them reconsidering.

But let's get this thread back on track.

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:26 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Just in case the A-10 couldn't find any possible members for expansion within D-I (most recently having George Mason from the CAA, and Davidson from the SoCon), shouldn't it be also analyzing possible upgrade hopeful schools in D-II (based on their geographic footprint and success tenures)? For example, the A-10 could look up in the CCAA, PSAC, ECC, NE-10, GLIAC and GLVC?


The A10 is one of the top two leagues in basketball...why do they want to shop the DII level for schools?
The A10 will attempt to grab the best DI schools when they go shopping.


If you say so, then which "best" D-I conferences should the A-10 lurk at (besides the CAA and the SoCon)?


MVC, Horizon, AE, MAAC...



Well, I mention best DI school...not best DI conference. Because the A-10 won't recruit a conference...they will recruit a school.
It's possible that the A10 will want to reload through the Midwest. But, I feel they would rather imitate the ACC and load up on the east coast.
Which leaves schools in the CAA, AE, MAAC, Horizon(maybe?), Patriot, Big South.

I believe much will depend on which and how many schools the BE grabs(two or four). And whether those schools come from the A10 or a mix of conferences.


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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:51 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
mozilla wrote:
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Loyola(Md) is right there in Georgetown's market. Plus they've only been to the NCAA tourney 2 times 1994 & 2012 I believe.


Georgetown is a section on the west side of DC. DC and Baltimore are two completely different cities. I don't believe that Georgetown carries Baltimore just because they aren't too far apart. Even if there is some crossover in market...that really isn't uncommon. Especially, when there are multiple cities(Philly, DC, Richmond, Boston, Cincy) containing schools in many conferences.

So maybe, Loyola isn't the best candidate. They should still be on the list with their attributes. Who's to say what criteria the Big East is using to decide their candidates?

Also, I was wondering, if SLU and Dayton(or Rich/Duq) leave for the BE.....will that trigger any other A-10 schools to make their move at that time? Will that be the straw that broke the camels back for any schools?

If you guys were counting Dayton and Xavier(Cincy) as the same market how is Balt and DC not the same?

what move? A10 is still far better than any other conference left for the rest them to choose. I posted how MVC doesn't even have A10 depth, or markets like the A10. Horizon is the farm league for the A10 & MVC. UMass being forced for all or nothing in the MAC can cause a move. Or Fordham falling back to the Patriot but most school don't tuck tail and head back to where they came from. Plus w/ all the moves the Fordham people probably think they can compete now.

Why does the list for the BE have to be deep? Here, pick 2 of SLU, Dayton, Richmond, VCU. Why compile a list for Big 12 candidates that include Texas St., UTSA, Arkansas St. when you have Cincinnati, UCF, BYU, even Houston, Memphis, Tulane.


I really don't understand your response.

Cincy and Xavier are in the Cincy market....not Dayton. LaSalle, Villanova, Drexell and St. Jo are in Philly. GW, George Mason, Maryland and Georgetown are in DC. Loyola, Towson and UMBC are in Baltimore.
DC and Baltimore are not the same city or the same market. Georgetown does not carry Baltimore because they are within an hour of each other.
But, even if they do cross-over....there are plenty of cities with more than one school...so, it shouldn't be that big a factor, regardless.

The MOVE.....
IF SLU and Dayton(or another big A-10 team) leave the A-10.....will that cause any school, such as Fordham, or anyone else to want to leave for the Patriot, MAC or better situation because the depth of the A10 isn't what it was a few years ago. ie...it wasn't the conference they signed up for. Which seems to be an important factor for schools...based on others comments from other threads. I didn't say that they would retreat to some little crappy conference where they came out of and slip into obscurity.

I have no idea why you are referring to the Big 12 or that situation.


Like TK said Dayton and Cincy are different makets just like Balt and DC. So why argue for a suckier school close to another market vs a good school close to another market. Why even spend time pondering schools like Loyola when the list won't need to go any further than the 4 I said. Where do you think the 12 "left behind" schools in the A-10 will upgrade to after the BE takes 2. I already showed you the next best behind the A-10 and their 8 schools w/ ncaa tourneys the last 5 years vs the MVCs 4. Plus the A10 markets are far better than the MVC. Only UMass if given an ultimatum would have to move.

What does BE expansion have to do w B12 expansion? Making a list of schools like Loyola who have no shot at the BE would be like talking about Texas St. and UTSA as B12 candidates when we all know that Cincinnati, BYU, UCF etc are who they'd look at so no need to go that deep to UTSA. If you lived in an ACC area I woulda used the ACC looking at UConn and Cincy and that there'd be no reason to have ECU on their list of candidates.

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Last edited by Fresno St. Alum on Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:56 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
I guess I didn't realize that Georgetown had such wide reaching appeal throughout the area :o
Who would have thunk it?

So, if the BE takes two. It seems SLU is the number one choice...and two and three seem to be between Rich and Duq.

Which leaves one last question....what could make the BE take four? Or will the BE want four more schools?


I don't know how old you are but when I was a kid in the mid-late 80s, all kinds of kids, young adults, here in CA liked Georgetown. I'm talking Raider or 49er fan amounts of t-shirts and hats of them. I had a G'town sweatshirt, t-shirt, but I had 88 college t-shirts and have 33 college bball jerseys so I don't count myself.

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:00 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
[Like TK said Dayton and Cincy are different makets just like Balt and DC. So why argue for a suckier school close to another market vs a good school close to another market. Why even spend time pondering schools like Loyola when the list won't need to go any further than the 4 I said. Where do you think the 12 "left behind" schools in the A-10 will upgrade to after the BE takes 2. I already showed you the next best behind the A-10 and their 8 schools w/ ncaa tourneys the last 5 years vs the MVCs 4. Plus the A10 markets are far better than the MVC. Only UMass if given an ultimatum would have to move.

What does BE expansion have to do w B12 expansion? Making a list of schools like Loyola who have no shot at the BE would be like talking about Texas St. and UTSA as B12 candidates when we all know that Cincinnati, BYU, UCF etc are who they'd look at so no need to go that deep to UTSA. If you lived in an ACC area I woulda used the ACC looking at UConn and Cincy and that there'd be no reason to have ECU on their list of candidates.


Hey...everyone has a right to see things differently, right? So, maybe I don't agree with all your thoughts. I still have the right to keep on thinking about things...without you telling me what to think. Just because you feel that when you say...those four are the only schools that YOU think should be considered. Doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
I don't feel VCU and Richmond should be considered because they aren't Catholic. So, I'm still considering other schools. I hope that meets with your approval.


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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:07 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
[Like TK said Dayton and Cincy are different makets just like Balt and DC. So why argue for a suckier school close to another market vs a good school close to another market. Why even spend time pondering schools like Loyola when the list won't need to go any further than the 4 I said. Where do you think the 12 "left behind" schools in the A-10 will upgrade to after the BE takes 2. I already showed you the next best behind the A-10 and their 8 schools w/ ncaa tourneys the last 5 years vs the MVCs 4. Plus the A10 markets are far better than the MVC. Only UMass if given an ultimatum would have to move.

What does BE expansion have to do w B12 expansion? Making a list of schools like Loyola who have no shot at the BE would be like talking about Texas St. and UTSA as B12 candidates when we all know that Cincinnati, BYU, UCF etc are who they'd look at so no need to go that deep to UTSA. If you lived in an ACC area I woulda used the ACC looking at UConn and Cincy and that there'd be no reason to have ECU on their list of candidates.


Hey...everyone has a right to see things differently, right? So, maybe I don't agree with all your thoughts. I still have the right to keep on thinking about things...without you telling me what to think. Just because you feel that when you say...those four are the only schools that YOU think should be considered. Doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
I don't feel VCU and Richmond should be considered because they aren't Catholic. So, I'm still considering other schools. I hope that meets with your approval.


It's not just me, it's damn near everyone. Along w/ the writers who first listed the next set of candidates back when this BE was formed. Butler says, if you say so, that Richmond shouldn't be considered b/c they aren't catholic. VCU is a public school problem, if it is one.

Sure you can have your opinion, but no, anyone you name outside of the 4 I don't approve of.

Edited:Freaked

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
[Like TK said Dayton and Cincy are different makets just like Balt and DC. So why argue for a suckier school close to another market vs a good school close to another market. Why even spend time pondering schools like Loyola when the list won't need to go any further than the 4 I said. Where do you think the 12 "left behind" schools in the A-10 will upgrade to after the BE takes 2. I already showed you the next best behind the A-10 and their 8 schools w/ ncaa tourneys the last 5 years vs the MVCs 4. Plus the A10 markets are far better than the MVC. Only UMass if given an ultimatum would have to move.

What does BE expansion have to do w B12 expansion? Making a list of schools like Loyola who have no shot at the BE would be like talking about Texas St. and UTSA as B12 candidates when we all know that Cincinnati, BYU, UCF etc are who they'd look at so no need to go that deep to UTSA. If you lived in an ACC area I woulda used the ACC looking at UConn and Cincy and that there'd be no reason to have ECU on their list of candidates.


Hey...everyone has a right to see things differently, right? So, maybe I don't agree with all your thoughts. I still have the right to keep on thinking about things...without you telling me what to think. Just because you feel that when you say...those four are the only schools that YOU think should be considered. Doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
I don't feel VCU and Richmond should be considered because they aren't Catholic. So, I'm still considering other schools. I hope that meets with your approval.


It's not just me, it's damn near everyone. Along w/ the writers who first listed the next set of candidates back when this BE was formed. Butler says, if you say so, that Richmond shouldn't be considered b/c they aren't catholic. VCU is a public school problem, if it is one.

Sure you can have your opinion, but no, anyone you name outside of the 4 I don't approve of .

Sorry.
I thought this was a discussion board. So, I was trying to discuss things.





Edited:Freaked


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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:20 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
[Like TK said Dayton and Cincy are different makets just like Balt and DC. So why argue for a suckier school close to another market vs a good school close to another market. Why even spend time pondering schools like Loyola when the list won't need to go any further than the 4 I said. Where do you think the 12 "left behind" schools in the A-10 will upgrade to after the BE takes 2. I already showed you the next best behind the A-10 and their 8 schools w/ ncaa tourneys the last 5 years vs the MVCs 4. Plus the A10 markets are far better than the MVC. Only UMass if given an ultimatum would have to move.

What does BE expansion have to do w B12 expansion? Making a list of schools like Loyola who have no shot at the BE would be like talking about Texas St. and UTSA as B12 candidates when we all know that Cincinnati, BYU, UCF etc are who they'd look at so no need to go that deep to UTSA. If you lived in an ACC area I woulda used the ACC looking at UConn and Cincy and that there'd be no reason to have ECU on their list of candidates.



Hey...everyone has a right to see things differently, right? So, maybe I don't agree with all your thoughts. I still have the right to keep on thinking about things...without you telling me what to think. Just because you feel that when you say...those four are the only schools that YOU think should be considered. Doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
I don't feel VCU and Richmond should be considered because they aren't Catholic. So, I'm still considering other schools. I hope that meets with your approval.


FSA wrote...
It's not just me, it's damn near everyone. Along w/ the writers who first listed the next set of candidates back when this BE was formed. Butler says, if you say so, that Richmond shouldn't be considered b/c they aren't catholic. VCU is a public school problem, if it is one.

Sure you can have your opinion, but no, anyone you name outside of the 4 I don't approve of.

Mozilla wrote....
Sorry.
I thought this was a discussion board. So, I was trying to discuss things.



Edited:Freaked

FSA wrote....
here you go, the 1st and 2nd pages of the BE thread have lots of articles naming the 4 teams that the rest of us have been talking about. You can discuss what you want but don't be mad when I tell you that's not going to happen and it will be from the pool of schools that the writers have been talking about for over a year. Tk told you the same. I can't help it if you don't want to listen to me.
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Last edited by Fresno St. Alum on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:40 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
[Like TK said Dayton and Cincy are different makets just like Balt and DC. So why argue for a suckier school close to another market vs a good school close to another market. Why even spend time pondering schools like Loyola when the list won't need to go any further than the 4 I said. Where do you think the 12 "left behind" schools in the A-10 will upgrade to after the BE takes 2. I already showed you the next best behind the A-10 and their 8 schools w/ ncaa tourneys the last 5 years vs the MVCs 4. Plus the A10 markets are far better than the MVC. Only UMass if given an ultimatum would have to move.

What does BE expansion have to do w B12 expansion? Making a list of schools like Loyola who have no shot at the BE would be like talking about Texas St. and UTSA as B12 candidates when we all know that Cincinnati, BYU, UCF etc are who they'd look at so no need to go that deep to UTSA. If you lived in an ACC area I woulda used the ACC looking at UConn and Cincy and that there'd be no reason to have ECU on their list of candidates.


Hey...everyone has a right to see things differently, right? So, maybe I don't agree with all your thoughts. I still have the right to keep on thinking about things...without you telling me what to think. Just because you feel that when you say...those four are the only schools that YOU think should be considered. Doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
I don't feel VCU and Richmond should be considered because they aren't Catholic. So, I'm still considering other schools. I hope that meets with your approval.


It's not really a matter of opinion. Back during the Big East split discussions in 2003, Richmond was the school that Georgetown publicly lobbied for, so that we know. Feel free to go back through the Big East threads, Grid and site articles to see the developments.

When the eventual split did happen, the Big East opted for some schools that were considered #1 and #2 in Xavier (Cincinnati replacement) and Butler which had climbed the rung with the tournament finals appearances (adding Indianapolis market). When it came to the #3 school, the list included Dayton, St. Louis, Richmond, Creighton and others. The conference opted for Creighton.

Now from the 2003 discussions all the way through to the most recent expansion, we have a list of candidates. We know what the conference wants to do if it expands (add new markets where the school has strong market penetration, add successful programs). Based on the level of success from these candidates, it's a safe assumption that any 1-2 future Big East members would come from the same pool. Could another school sneak into that pool? Yes, if they prove success on the court, selling tickets, and attaining television viewers.

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:02 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
[Like TK said Dayton and Cincy are different makets just like Balt and DC. So why argue for a suckier school close to another market vs a good school close to another market. Why even spend time pondering schools like Loyola when the list won't need to go any further than the 4 I said. Where do you think the 12 "left behind" schools in the A-10 will upgrade to after the BE takes 2. I already showed you the next best behind the A-10 and their 8 schools w/ ncaa tourneys the last 5 years vs the MVCs 4. Plus the A10 markets are far better than the MVC. Only UMass if given an ultimatum would have to move.

What does BE expansion have to do w B12 expansion? Making a list of schools like Loyola who have no shot at the BE would be like talking about Texas St. and UTSA as B12 candidates when we all know that Cincinnati, BYU, UCF etc are who they'd look at so no need to go that deep to UTSA. If you lived in an ACC area I woulda used the ACC looking at UConn and Cincy and that there'd be no reason to have ECU on their list of candidates.


Hey...everyone has a right to see things differently, right? So, maybe I don't agree with all your thoughts. I still have the right to keep on thinking about things...without you telling me what to think. Just because you feel that when you say...those four are the only schools that YOU think should be considered. Doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
I don't feel VCU and Richmond should be considered because they aren't Catholic. So, I'm still considering other schools. I hope that meets with your approval.


It's not really a matter of opinion. Back during the Big East split discussions in 2003, Richmond was the school that Georgetown publicly lobbied for, so that we know. Feel free to go back through the Big East threads, Grid and site articles to see the developments.

When the eventual split did happen, the Big East opted for some schools that were considered #1 and #2 in Xavier (Cincinnati replacement) and Butler which had climbed the rung with the tournament finals appearances (adding Indianapolis market). When it came to the #3 school, the list included Dayton, St. Louis, Richmond, Creighton and others. The conference opted for Creighton.

Now from the 2003 discussions all the way through to the most recent expansion, we have a list of candidates. We know what the conference wants to do if it expands (add new markets where the school has strong market penetration, add successful programs). Based on the level of success from these candidates, it's a safe assumption that any 1-2 future Big East members would come from the same pool. Could another school sneak into that pool? Yes, if they prove success on the court, selling tickets, and attaining television viewers.


Wichita St. is the only one I can think of to sneak on that list by the time they expand to 12. Pretty hard for any others to build resumes like WSU, VCU, to go w/ the 3 privates w/ solid programs and decent markets.

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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:23 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Well, I mention best DI school...not best DI conference. Because the A-10 won't recruit a conference...they will recruit a school.
It's possible that the A10 will want to reload through the Midwest. But, I feel they would rather imitate the ACC and load up on the east coast.
Which leaves schools in the CAA, AE, MAAC, Horizon(maybe?), Patriot, Big South.

I believe much will depend on which and how many schools the BE grabs(two or four). And whether those schools come from the A10 or a mix of conferences.


MAAC: Siena
MVC: Wichita State
AE: Vermont, Stony Brook, Albany
Horizon: Valpo

There are others that could be "in the mix," like Cleveland State, Iona, Manhattan, Bradley, and some of the non-fb CAA members (Drexel, NE, and Hofstra). Detroit gets mentioned a lot, too, and while I think both the A10 and Big East would have loved to consider them, there is no consistency out there at that program. Detroit and Siena both, imo, although Siena's been on that radar of what seems like forever.

The A10 won't chase markets. They'll chase quality replacements who make the conference a strong, consistent multi-bid one. But, if replacements will have to be made, it's going to be in reaction to where the Big East takes from the A10. Taking both Dayton and St. Louis may just finally close the door on the A10's western front (no chance, WSU).

I'm not really concerned with the Big East. They don't seem interested in public schools, and that's going to be where they trip up. I'll believe they care about basketball if they go to 12 and who they take to make that number.


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 Post subject: Re: A10 Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:08 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Also, I was wondering, if SLU and Dayton(or Rich/Duq) leave for the BE.....will that trigger any other A-10 schools to make their move at that time? Will that be the straw that broke the camels back for any schools?


There's no straw. The A-10 isn't going to lose anyone for any reason besides:
#1 - UMass joins the American for football reasons.
#2 - SLU/Dayton/Richmond/VCU/Duquesne get a Big East invite
#3 - Fordham decides the hell with athletics, academics of the Patriot League are for us.

Only the first two hurt the A-10. But none of those BREAK the A-10.

Rhode Island, George Washington, St. Joseph's, LaSalle, George Mason, and St. Bonaventure CAN'T leave the A-10 for a better conference. They won't be invited to the Big East for market reasons, the first five because the BE has them covered, and in the case of Bona (my alma mater, BTW), they have no market.

Since the last Independent got an NCAA bid in 1991, current A-10 members have earned 28 at-large bids:
-- 17 at-large bids by those six A-10 schools who will DEFINITELY remain.
-- 11 by A-10 schools who could be Big East invitees (SLU 4, UD 3, Rich 2, VCU 2)

All the other schools without FBS football have combined for 29 at-large bids in that span
-- 12 by Missouri Valley (3 by Wichita State, who could be a Big East invitee)
-- 11 by West Coast members (not including BYU, who has independent football)
-- 3 by Horizon League members (GB 96, DET 97, UIC 98)
-- 1 by Southland members (New Orleans, 1993)
-- 1 by CAA members (Col of Charleston, 1994)
-- 1 by MAAC members (Manhattan, 1995)

And since 2000, it's:
18 by A-10
10 by MVC
10 by WCC

I'm assuming WCC schools joining/pilfering from the A-10 is off the table; but there's no scenario in which the A-10 breaks up or even becomes a shell of its former self.

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