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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:40 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Good responses.

Though, why would W. Illinois leave the MVFC to go to the OVC? Shouldn't they shot for the Horizon or full membership in the MVC before heading down to the OVC? **Also, ...wasn't the Illinois legislature going to make a bum rush to get their schools in higher positions...or something like that?

I think that IUPUI is a good candidate...just not at the top. Horizon top candidates could be IUPU Fort Wayne, Northern Kentucky, maybe Robert Morris in Pittsburg, SIU Edwardsville, W. Illinois...something like that.

The OVC was looking into N. Alabama..so said E. Ky's AD(or someone similar).


Thanks.

And though (like you said), why did Eastern Illinois left the Summit (known as the Mid-Con at that time) to join the OVC after the 95-96 season? I don't get the "making a bum rush" part or such. But don't most schools want to upgrade with enough facility status or budget status? However, I do give you credit for acknowledging W. Illinois to be a candidate for either the Horizon or the MVC. Then if that happens, I'm sure that E. Illinois would try to think the same way as well.

Speaking of Horizon candidates, those are very nice ones so far. And for only North Alabama to be OVC material, Jacksonville St. must upgrade to FBS (possibly the Sun Belt or C-USA).

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:22 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Good responses.

Though, why would W. Illinois leave the MVFC to go to the OVC? Shouldn't they shot for the Horizon or full membership in the MVC before heading down to the OVC? **Also, ...wasn't the Illinois legislature going to make a bum rush to get their schools in higher positions...or something like that?

I think that IUPUI is a good candidate...just not at the top. Horizon top candidates could be IUPU Fort Wayne, Northern Kentucky, maybe Robert Morris in Pittsburg, SIU Edwardsville, W. Illinois...something like that.

The OVC was looking into N. Alabama..so said E. Ky's AD(or someone similar).


Thanks.

And though (like you said), why did Eastern Illinois left the Summit (known as the Mid-Con at that time) to join the OVC after the 95-96 season? I don't get the "making a bum rush" part or such. But don't most schools want to upgrade with enough facility status or budget status? However, I do give you credit for acknowledging W. Illinois to be a candidate for either the Horizon or the MVC. Then if that happens, I'm sure that E. Illinois would try to think the same way as well.

Speaking of Horizon candidates, those are very nice ones so far. And for only North Alabama to be OVC material, Jacksonville St. must upgrade to FBS (possibly the Sun Belt or C-USA).


Going from the Summit to the OVC is different then going from the MVFC to the OVC. ...just sayin'

Bum Rush---
The Illinois Legislature trying to force a school into the B1G. Which won't happen. So, my guess is...they try to push the rest of their programs up a level or two....across the board. (if I had to do it theoretically, ....Ill State to Sun Belt, S. Ill and W. Ill to MAC, E. Ill to MVC, Loyola and Bradley to A-10 as reload from SLU and Dayton to Big East, Chicago State to Horizon, any others can fill in for OVC, MVC, Summit) I doubt much of it could really be accomplished...but, who knows with the right politician??

C-USA doesn't have any room. So, they aren't taking anyone.
The SBC has room...but, they seem rudderless...so, can't really say if they have decided on a final potential candidate list. And I don't really believe that Jville State is up to the level that the SBC is looking. The third school in one state would have to be a pretty overwhelming choice....to get passed the oversaturation issue. Realistically, Jville State is staying where they are for a while.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:02 pm 
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I'd like to see the Horizon League take IUPUI, IPFW, and NKU. This would give the conference nice neat divisions. The Michigan schools, the Ohio schools, and NKU would be in the east and in the west would be the Indiana schools, IUC, and the Wisconsin schools.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:51 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I'd like to see the Horizon League take IUPUI, IPFW, and NKU. This would give the conference nice neat divisions. The Michigan schools, the Ohio schools, and NKU would be in the east and in the west would be the Indiana schools, IUC, and the Wisconsin schools.


Same here. And when it comes to division play, it would be perfectly well-balanced.

HL East: Detroit, Oakland (Michigan); Cleveland St., Wright St., Youngstown St. (Ohio); Northern Kentucky (Kentucky)
HL West: IUPUI, IPFW, Valporaiso (Indiana); UIC (Illinois); UWM, UWGB (Wisconsin)

Come to think of it, on some perspective or standpoint, that planned Horizon League would be the new Summit League in retrospect since most of the current HL members (except NKU) were formerly from the SL. How ironically coincidental. lol

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:42 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Good responses.

Though, why would W. Illinois leave the MVFC to go to the OVC? Shouldn't they shot for the Horizon or full membership in the MVC before heading down to the OVC? **Also, ...wasn't the Illinois legislature going to make a bum rush to get their schools in higher positions...or something like that?

I think that IUPUI is a good candidate...just not at the top. Horizon top candidates could be IUPU Fort Wayne, Northern Kentucky, maybe Robert Morris in Pittsburg, SIU Edwardsville, W. Illinois...something like that.

The OVC was looking into N. Alabama..so said E. Ky's AD(or someone similar).


W Illinois would leave the Summit/MVFC for the OVC in a heartbeat. The OVC is less travel than the Summit and WIU's football could compete better in the OVC than in the MVFC.

The OVC is full and stable while the Summit is not. But that being said, the OVC isn't calling as they have better options in the South.

IUPUI is a better travel destination that the others you mentioned that is directly next to their footprint that could boost recruting, host a conference tournament, and increase any possibly media deals (or at least get Horizon games picked up/televised locally in the area).

Fort Wayne doesn't bring any of that and neither does WIU. Northern Kentucky is a good candidate but its too new IMO. Robert Morris is an interesting selection but it doesn't feel like a Horizon school.

SIU Edwardsville is the most interesting option but I think they would need to expand the footprint in order to add them as they would stick out like a sore thumb though the Horizon League was talking about adding UMKC so I guess that may not matter much to them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:52 am 
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Why are you guys dead set on IUPUI and IPFW being in the Horizon? Do you read previous posts to get the pulse of HLfans wishes? Go back to page 8 of this thread. The only realistic candidates for the HL are Belmont, NKU and another southern partner for Belmont, which could be Murray State or Evansville. Robert Morris was also mentioned. Again, the HL presidents have already said NO to IUPUI AND IPFW. So stop with that. The Dakotas make no sense because of travel concerns. I recently posted that the HL has accepted Belmont as a soccer affiliate with arrangements with other HL teams for games. We feel this is a precursor to an all-sports invite, but you guys seem to dismiss this and continue to bring up IUPUI, IPFW and Western Illinois. No. The HL has been looking at Belmont for a while. This 4 year agreement will give the HL time to prove itself to Belmont and work on another southern travel partner. The HL has NKU in its back pocket already. It's just waiting until their probationary status is done.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Flamesmania wrote:
Why are you guys dead set on IUPUI and IPFW being in the Horizon? Do you read previous posts to get the pulse of HLfans wishes? Go back to page 8 of this thread. The only realistic candidates for the HL are Belmont, NKU and another southern partner for Belmont, which could be Murray State or Evansville. Robert Morris was also mentioned. Again, the HL presidents have already said NO to IUPUI AND IPFW. So stop with that. The Dakotas make no sense because of travel concerns. I recently posted that the HL has accepted Belmont as a soccer affiliate with arrangements with other HL teams for games. We feel this is a precursor to an all-sports invite, but you guys seem to dismiss this and continue to bring up IUPUI, IPFW and Western Illinois. No. The HL has been looking at Belmont for a while. This 4 year agreement will give the HL time to prove itself to Belmont and work on another southern travel partner. The HL has NKU in its back pocket already. It's just waiting until their probationary status is done.



Is Valpo the big sticking point for the IUPU schools? If so, ...how long will Valpo be sticking around the HL? They fit in the current MVC, A-10, BE(kind of). Does anyone see them jumping to a better league anytime soon?

Can we describe your theory on the HL as...adding 3 schools to get to 12? And can we list those three as: Belmont, NKU, and someone from the list of Evansville, Bellarmine, SIU Edwardsville, ....and was there anyone else feasible from the south side of the equation?

If that is where everything stands....I guess the only question left is....when? Two years for NKU, four years for Belmont....and whomever is left? Correct, or was my math off? ...barring any defections before then.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:07 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Is Valpo the big sticking point for the IUPU schools? If so, ...how long will Valpo be sticking around the HL? They fit in the current MVC, A-10, BE(kind of). Does anyone see them jumping to a better league anytime soon?


Naw, Valpo is not the sticking point. IUPUI and IPFW do not fit the academic profile and mission of HL schools. Contrary to what may be popular belief, the HL has quality academic institutions (public and private alike) that at the moment, neither IUPUI nor IPFW comes up to. No they are not jumping to another conference. Their facilities are not quite up to par yet.

mozilla wrote:
Can we describe your theory on the HL as...adding 3 schools to get to 12? And can we list those three as: Belmont, NKU, and someone from the list of Evansville, Bellarmine, SIU Edwardsville, ....and was there anyone else feasible from the south side of the equation?


Yes...adding 3 schools to get to 12. From the list of Belmont, Murray State, Evansville, Lipscomb, NKU and Robert Morris.

mozilla wrote:
If that is where everything stands....I guess the only question left is....when? Two years for NKU, four years for Belmont....and whomever is left? Correct, or was my math off? ...barring any defections before then.


That is the approximate timetable. Granted, everthing could blow up in the HL's face as it did two years ago when they were set to announce a number of schools, but Butler bolted, causing cold feet for the prospective new additions. This time, the HL and its Executive Board are playing it safe.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:49 pm 
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I honestly think they should add IUPUI instead of IPFW maybe it'd be better for the Jaguars. IPFW already has competition from ND State and now that Oral Roberts is coming back I think the Golden Eagles could be competition for the Mastodons. Plus IPFW's competition in the Horizon League would basically be Green Bay and maybe Valpo & Wright State. I also forgot about Cleveland State


Last edited by ACCFan on Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Flamesmania wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Is Valpo the big sticking point for the IUPU schools? If so, ...how long will Valpo be sticking around the HL? They fit in the current MVC, A-10, BE(kind of). Does anyone see them jumping to a better league anytime soon?


Naw, Valpo is not the sticking point. IUPUI and IPFW do not fit the academic profile and mission of HL schools. Contrary to what may be popular belief, the HL has quality academic institutions (public and private alike) that at the moment, neither IUPUI nor IPFW comes up to. No they are not jumping to another conference. Their facilities are not quite up to par yet.

mozilla wrote:
Can we describe your theory on the HL as...adding 3 schools to get to 12? And can we list those three as: Belmont, NKU, and someone from the list of Evansville, Bellarmine, SIU Edwardsville, ....and was there anyone else feasible from the south side of the equation?


Yes...adding 3 schools to get to 12. From the list of Belmont, Murray State, Evansville, Lipscomb, NKU and Robert Morris.

mozilla wrote:
If that is where everything stands....I guess the only question left is....when? Two years for NKU, four years for Belmont....and whomever is left? Correct, or was my math off? ...barring any defections before then.


That is the approximate timetable. Granted, everthing could blow up in the HL's face as it did two years ago when they were set to announce a number of schools, but Butler bolted, causing cold feet for the prospective new additions. This time, the HL and its Executive Board are playing it safe.

I think we can eliminate Evansville from consideration, even if they are truly interested in joining the Horizon. It would make no sense for the Horizon to take the worst school from the MVC, only to have the MVC fill that opening by poaching one of the best schools from the Horizon (say Valparaiso).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:27 am 
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With all due to respect to everyone posting in this topic, and despite that the league doesn't feel interested about the schools that I'm about to mention, I was wondering about the following for each one:

IUPUI has recently planned to have a new home for most indoor sports (basketball, volleyball, etc.) within the newly-build Indiana State Fairgrounds Coliseum. Here's a link: http://www.iupuijags.com/news/2013/5/8/ ... ath=mbball Now the main question is this: Despite a new facility for basketball, will the Jaguars manage to progress some success; as of having great winning records, conference titles (regular-season and/or tournament alike) and possible trips/bids to the NCAA Tournament? Speaking of which, the last time IUPUI reached to the NCAA Tournament was in 2002-03, where they won its only D-I conference tournament title (Summit League men's basketball tourney), but eventually fell in the first round to Kentucky.

IPFW has recently have its first 20+-win season as well as its first postseason appearance (and almost winning a conference tournament title on its first Summit League tourney final) in the NCAA D-I level back this past season. I felt bad that the school prefers to host their home games in the Hilliard Gates Sports Center over the Allen County War Memorial Coliseum, which it's located within Fort Wayne and has more seating capacity that meets the right D-I requirements of at least over 5,000 seats. Anyways, back on the season IPFW had, this leads me to the following question: Whether if it's at the ACWMC or the HGSC, will the Mastodons manage to keep up the success on a consistent basis to lead on having great winning records, conference titles (regular-season and/or tournament alike) and possible trips/bids to the NCAA Tournament? Back in the past at one point, IPFW was one of the greatest basketball teams within NCAA D-II and their former conference, the GLVC, like in the mid-90s or such.

Anyways, with everything I've shared so far as an opinion, despite of the current answers; within like 2-5 years or so, and if it happens, will it change the minds to those Horizon League staff members and letting IUPUI and IPFW to be expansion candidates under consideration?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:42 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
With all due to respect to everyone posting in this topic, and despite that the league doesn't feel interested about the schools that I'm about to mention, I was wondering about the following for each one:

IUPUI has recently planned to have a new home for most indoor sports (basketball, volleyball, etc.) within the newly-build Indiana State Fairgrounds Coliseum. Here's a link: http://www.iupuijags.com/news/2013/5/8/ ... ath=mbball" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Now the main question is this: Despite a new facility for basketball, will the Jaguars manage to progress some success; as of having great winning records, conference titles (regular-season and/or tournament alike) and possible trips/bids to the NCAA Tournament? Speaking of which, the last time IUPUI reached to the NCAA Tournament was in 2002-03, where they won its only D-I conference tournament title (Summit League men's basketball tourney), but eventually fell in the first round to Kentucky.

IPFW has recently have its first 20+-win season as well as its first postseason appearance (and almost winning a conference tournament title on its first Summit League tourney final) in the NCAA D-I level back this past season. I felt bad that the school prefers to host their home games in the Hilliard Gates Sports Center over the Allen County War Memorial Coliseum, which it's located within Fort Wayne and has more seating capacity that meets the right D-I requirements of at least over 5,000 seats. Anyways, back on the season IPFW had, this leads me to the following question: Whether if it's at the ACWMC or the HGSC, will the Mastodons manage to keep up the success on a consistent basis to lead on having great winning records, conference titles (regular-season and/or tournament alike) and possible trips/bids to the NCAA Tournament? Back in the past at one point, IPFW was one of the greatest basketball teams within NCAA D-II and their former conference, the GLVC, like in the mid-90s or such.

Anyways, with everything I've shared so far as an opinion, despite of the current answers; within like 2-5 years or so, and if it happens, will it change the minds to those Horizon League staff members and letting IUPUI and IPFW to be expansion candidates under consideration?



That is a big 'what-if'.

I'm no expert on the situation in the HL but, I can see a few problems with your proposal:
1 Both schools can't win a conference title at the same time...unless, they plan on sharing it.
2 They are in a tough league to grab...two or more bids, every year, so that each school can make it to the dance.
3 Oral Roberts and Denver just joined the league...so that the league is even more competitive.
4 Recent statements regarding the HL's resistance to the IUPU schools.


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 Post subject: Horizon League Expansion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:30 am 
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If the HL takes Belmont, could IUPUI be a target for the OVC? The OVC wouldn't need a football school, and IUPUI serves as a connector between EIU and EKU/Morehead.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:06 am 
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wbyeager wrote:
If the HL takes Belmont, could IUPUI be a target for the OVC? The OVC wouldn't need a football school, and IUPUI serves as a connector between EIU and EKU/Morehead.


Wait, you think that Belmont might be a possible eligible full member candidate for the Horizon, DESPITE not being in the Midwest footprint, which the conference has traditionally been? If so, will Northern Kentucky be next?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:21 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
wbyeager wrote:
If the HL takes Belmont, could IUPUI be a target for the OVC? The OVC wouldn't need a football school, and IUPUI serves as a connector between EIU and EKU/Morehead.


Wait, you think that Belmont might be a possible eligible full member candidate for the Horizon, DESPITE not being in the Midwest footprint, which the conference has traditionally been? If so, will Northern Kentucky be next?


It's been discussed quite a bit. Yes we in the HL believe Belmont will become a full member. One of the reasons for the 4 year agreement to play Horizon League teams is to get a gauge of travel logistics and costs. The schools are already academically compatible. The HL would have to come up with a travel partner for Belmont.

Northern Kentucky is really a suburb of Cincinnati and therefore would make a great natural travel partner for Wright State.


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